Hello Sonali here ready to awaken!

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sona
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Hello Sonali here ready to awaken!

Postby sona » Sun Aug 26, 2012 3:23 am

Hi,

My name is Sonali and I request Ilona to start a direct pointing thread with me. I have sent an e-mail introducing myself and my expriences thus far. Thanks very much!

Sonali

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sona
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Requesting Ilona - Re: Hello Sonali here ready to awaken!

Postby sona » Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:53 am

Hello,

My spiritual search started a few years back due to seeing/feeling the intense suffering going on in the world (of human beings!). That led me to meditation practices, reading and listening to spiritual people like UG Krishnamurti, J Krishnamurthi, Ramana Maharishi etc. It led to several experiences of very peaceful states, quietude of the mind and thought-less states. However they came and went. Then I chanced upon LU and read some of the posts, which amazed me in that the pointings were so DIRECT and seemed to be causing such a shift in so many people immediately! This is so wonderful and I thank you and Elena for this amazing effort.

A few days back while simply eating dinner at a restaurant, I had a penetrating insight that - "eating is just happening, it's not happening to me"! It was so stunning that it stopped me in my tracks, so to speak. Ever since this has gripped "me" more and more, and made me realize that "I" is just a point-of-view, a bunch of memories/thoughts that get "imposed" on whatever event/experience is occuring in the present. So this "I/my story" gets built and extended just by "personalizing" naturally ocurring events! So basically "I " is just a mega-thought that is arising in some universal awareness or something - and latching onto a body/mind system and then propagating via association to whatever experiences are happening! Boom - "I am born"! OMG!!!

This is shocking and EXTREMELY liberating at the same time!! I feel as if a load has been lifted off my shoulders, of carrying on the "me story". However I would like to take the inquiry/pointing journey with you to confirm that again this is not a mind-game...but the beginning of the end of mind-games. Please help.

Regards,
Sonali

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Ilona
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Re: Hello Sonali here ready to awaken!

Postby Ilona » Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:11 am

Hi sonali,

Thank you for intro and sorry for delay with answer, I am flooded by messages coming from all over the places. So we can work here, please write every day, even if I don't answer you each day. The work is yours to do and all I can do here is give you questions. Please spend time with each question and answer from your own experience when ready. If answer is not coming, Be honest and write that.

Ok, we start from expectations.
Make a list as in 1, 2, 3... What do you expect this realisation will do for you, what should happen, what it should not be like. What you do not want from it? Take your time with this.

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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sona
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Re: Hello Sonali here ready to awaken!

Postby sona » Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:46 pm

Hello Ilona,

Thanks very much for taking the time to be here! There are no expectations from this process except to be -

1. Able to clearly see without any doubt whatsoever, that "I (my identities, my life-story)" are just accumulated, imaginary thoughts and memories, colored by my social/cultural background and upbringing.

2. Once this is seen without a doubt, the clinginess or stickness that is felt with life-situations, to hopefully decrease over time.

Regards,
Sonali

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Ilona
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Re: Hello Sonali here ready to awaken!

Postby Ilona » Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:44 pm

brilliant. thank you for coming here so ready.
ok.
imaginary thoughts, how is that?
look at thought itself, is thinking really here, how does it happen, where do thoughts come from and where do they go? what is there?

look, do not think about it but actualy sit and watch thougts. is thinking imaginary? what about content of thought? what is it made of?

think of unicorn, how does it look,
think of chair, see what is the difference unicorn and chair,
see what is different between thought chair and actual chair thing that you are sitting on.

write what comes up.

much love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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sona
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Re: Hello Sonali here ready to awaken!

Postby sona » Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:22 pm

imaginary thoughts, how is that? look at thought itself, is thinking really here, how does it happen, where do thoughts come from and where do they go? what is there?
Thoughts come from nowhere and vanish into nowhere...it appears as if humans live in a thought-sphere! The thoughts are mostly associated with past or present happenings/events, as interpreted or conceptualized by 'my' cultural/social mind filters, while others are pure flights of imagination like unicorns and tooth-fairies. However both are unreal - in that they drop when attention moves or a belief in them is dropped.

Thinking seems to be happening by itself, such that "I" have no control over what thoughts come up or don't.
is thinking imaginary? what about content of thought? what is it made of? think of unicorn, how does it look,
think of chair, see what is the difference unicorn and chair, see what is different between thought chair and actual chair thing that you are sitting on.
Thinking is an activity that happens by itself. The content of thought is an idea or a concept or a point-of-view regarding some experience or belief. The thought of a chair and the thought of a unicorn are both unreal, because they are just concepts. The difference between a 'thought chair' and an 'actual chair' is that the actual chair is more real than a 'thought chair', in that it can be perceived by my five senses and it doesn't vanish if I stop "believing" it.

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Ilona
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Re: Hello Sonali here ready to awaken!

Postby Ilona » Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:15 pm

Great. Now look at thought I and actual I, is there something that can be perceived or not?
Thought me and actual me. Thought self and actual self.

Describe what comes up here.

Much love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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sona
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Re: Hello Sonali here ready to awaken!

Postby sona » Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:08 pm

Now look at thought I and actual I, is there something that can be perceived or not?
Thought me and actual me. Thought self and actual self.
Thought I and actual I are the same, but the 'body' seems more real as it can be directly perceived, than the mental/emotional me-story of thoughts, emotions, reactions and points-of-view.

But then who is perceiving the body? I know it's the mind/brain with its conditionings, that is interpreting the sense-organs' signals. So if the mind's interpretation of other events is unreal because it's just a personal point-of-view/thought -- can my body's interpretation be unreal too? oh..oh...so can the body be just a thought too??

Stunned...not sure what is truly "real" anymore...

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Ilona
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Re: Hello Sonali here ready to awaken!

Postby Ilona » Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:12 pm

Good stuff, but let's focus now on I, self and me.

Which one is more real then other, what is the proof?
What is actual I? How is it perceived? Is sense of aliveness I? Or I is a thought that labels sense of aliveness ?
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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sona
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Re: Hello Sonali here ready to awaken!

Postby sona » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:53 am

let's focus now on I, self and me. Which one is more real then other, what is the proof?
What is actual I? How is it perceived? Is sense of aliveness I? Or I is a thought that labels sense of aliveness?
"I" is a thought that labels the sense of aliveness. When this "I" thought gets identified with a body/mind, it sees itself as an embodied "separate self"; which then starts the "me" story by translating/filtering the reality through its social/cultural conditionings and patterns.

So the sense of aliveness alone is real, rest all is a label or an unreal identification it takes on.

Regards,
Sonali

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Ilona
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Re: Hello Sonali here ready to awaken!

Postby Ilona » Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:27 am

Ok, let's look deeper now. I thoughts starts creating me thoughts, is that so? Take a closer look: can a thought see itself? Or is it that other thoughts arise about it. One by one, one at a time.
Is it I thought that sees itself?
Does thought table see itself?
What makes I thought special?

Can a thought think?

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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sona
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Re: Hello Sonali here ready to awaken!

Postby sona » Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:15 pm

Ok, let's look deeper now. I thoughts starts creating me thoughts, is that so? Take a closer look: can a thought see itself? Or is it that other thoughts arise about it. One by one, one at a time.
Is it I thought that sees itself?
Does thought table see itself?
What makes I thought special?
Can a thought think?
Ahhh...no a thought cannot see itself, and nor can it create other thoughts! Other thoughts arise about it...so it's like a network or collection of thoughts that arise one by one, but no thought is creating other thoughts.

Similarly a thought cannot think! So if "I" thought cannot think - there is no thinking happening! Only thoughts are arising one by one about "I" or any other thought.
What makes I thought special?
I thought cannot think, cannot do anything since it's a thought. Nothing makes it special. It just labels and hence "hides" the real sense of aliveness. "I am alive" only means that aliveness and I thought that points to it, are one - that there is only aliveness which is real.

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Ilona
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Re: Hello Sonali here ready to awaken!

Postby Ilona » Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:41 pm

Nice!

Ok, let's dig further. How about a doer, is there one?
If so, what is not on automatic?
Truth realized will set you free.
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sona
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Re: Hello Sonali here ready to awaken!

Postby sona » Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:14 pm

How about a doer, is there one? If so, what is not on automatic?
Since I is a thought and hence unreal, how can it do anything? Eating, sleeping, walking, talking etc happens on its own, there is no "I" thought that can tell the body to move the tongue and lips to talk for example. So no "I" driving the body. Similarly as seen above thoughts arise on their own, the "I" thought cannot create other thoughts. Hence it is not a doer. The happenings/life-events are happening automatically.

Going further, Aliveness which is all that is real, also cannot be a doer as to imply a doer means that there is another thing that aliveness will need to act on to perform some action. However if aliveness is all there is -what will it act on? So not only is there no doer, but the actions seem to be just 'apparently' happening too!!

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Re: Hello Sonali here ready to awaken!

Postby Ilona » Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:04 pm

Beautiful. How does it feel to see this? What is happening emotionally? How is your day going?

:))
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com


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