Jen seeking guidance

[Jenness]

Hi Becca!

And then look.
Is there anything about ‘I am a problem’ that ties whatever remains of a felt sense of I to the thought of ‘problem’? Replace the end of a sentence with anything else: ‘I am a rooster’ ‘I am the universe’…. look into the mechanism that makes it subject/object… about an imaginary thing that cannot be found in this dialogue.

I really liked this! After trying it a few times, it’s been easier to see the missing ness of an “I” to link to the thought , or even when there’s an “I” attached to an idea of a watcher or a location in the head, can’t find link between that “i” sense and whatever sensations are there. Played with saying “I” “me” “mine” and looking for it, and can’t find, and fear follows. Look for the link between the fear sensations and an owner, and can’t find. Look to see link between word of fear and sensations vs it’s a rooster. Sensations are the same

Same with ‘dead’. What makes it personal?

Was harder because louder fear that’s more distracting. Helpful to see why when I’m afraid and anxious in daily life, it’s hard to not get caught, because it takes up enough attention that the looking is blurry. Did it with fear first, it’s not personal. With death, caught a little of a strongly hooking thought that “this is about you. You must do something.” But didn’t find evidence of a self there either

[graceabounds]

Beautiful.
This is how the illusion unravels.

What makes a fear ‘louder’? How is that known and experienced?

[Jenness]

Hi Becca :)

What makes a fear ‘louder’? How is that known and experienced?

It’s like it clouds my ability to focus on anything other than it. It pulls my attention to responding to it by monitoring it

Been obsessing over how i operate socially because been really busy with a lot of people interactions. Seeing the anxious patterns aren’t stopping and don’t like how it’s blatant socially like that others can probably tell and hopeless it’s going to change and there’s an underlying don’t believe there’s anything worthwhile about me and that I’m so embarrassing and shameful, “what the f is wrong with you. Can’t do anything right. Nothing of value. Of course you’re going to be rejected and others are going to think you’re disgusting and weird and incompetent, given how you are.” Notice the wanting to feel the feelings to they’ll go away, instead of being stuck “being this way,” which will mean my life will have to be lived as this wretched thing and will turn out how a wretched thing’s life turns out, seen as wretched, unloved, everything goes wrong and no resources to live well, alone. Then fear of if no resistance to it, I’m “letting that happen” in my life. Feels good to feel it all, but an idea that this is endless, and don’t want that because want to fix the mess ,don’t want to be a mess. Feeling into will always be a mess and damaged and everyone will know that. Feels both personal in that i can feel the sense of self linked to the thoughts , but because I can see it, the sense of self doens’t feel as me

[graceabounds]

What is here that is not a thought?

Come back to direct experience.

What is the felt sense of ‘shame’ in the body, without any of the story being woven about an I?


You are saying “feeling into” it but what is written here are the thoughts about it not the IT itself…

What is happening in direct experience ?

[Jenness]

What is here that is not a thought?

They were all thoughts.

What is the felt sense of ‘shame’ in the body, without any of the story being woven about an I?

It’s kind of just an energy flow moving around. trying to see why they even bother me. They go places in the body I don’t expect them to like arms and where there used to be less feeling because there was more tension like solar plexus. And move in ways i don’t expect them to like expansion. Less worries about what they’re doing once I’m looking at it and describing it . Lose a bit of interest in monitoring them but if i don’t monitor, i put a constriction on so they don’t move, so uncomfortable with them just moving around all the time. They’re distracting and don’t match my expectations, because I think of them as supposed to clear out.

You are saying “feeling into” it but what is written here are the thoughts about it not the IT itself…

I have a hard time poking up deeper feelings without naming the thoughts, like I just keep some constrictions around and more anxiety than the softer feelings.

What is happening in direct experience ?

Just meandering flows that don’t seem that that big a deal, but there’s more tight focus on them as new waves come in, when i poke with thoughts of what I’m afraid will happen or if i release tensions in the body. You’d asked about what louder is like.. trying to identify and it seems like it’s more density, like a bundle of new density seems to form out of nowhere in usually the solar plexus area of and i don’t know what it’s going to do and i feel like I have to monitor to make sure it doesn’t do something weird. If i just leave them be and take the approach of letting them do whatever they want, the waves feel endless but through this exploration , thinking maybe that’s okay , maybe just lots of energy movements will happen for a while

[graceabounds]

Is the energy flow unwelcome in any place in the body?

Does the felt edge of the energy flow match up with the outlines of the body in the space? Is there a boundary that can be found for it?

[Jenness]

Is the energy flow unwelcome in any place in the body?

The body doesn’t mind it anywhere. The mind has lots of thoughts of needing to resist letting it flow, because no resistance it thinks that means no control, no reactivity and no preemptive strategies triggered to keep the feared thing from happening. Put attention on just breath and leave the rest be, almost like ignoring it, then it starts moving. Attention keeps being drawn back, habitual labeling of those sensations as Shame/vulnerability (can’t really tell the dif between the two). Have a vague sense that opening of tension in the heart that that shame/vulnerabilty is the same opening love can flow from, and can feel a trickle of it

Does the felt edge of the energy flow match up with the outlines of the body in the space? Is there a boundary that can be found for it?

It generally seems to stay within the body when it’s swirling and flowing upwards, but there’s another kind that’s less like a current but more like fog, and that one dissipates out of the body and initially seemed to stay around the edge of the body on the outside, but when i checked if it’s also there further out, it is and i can’t really find the boundary of it, but i can’t really sense the movement of it either, it’s more a fog that’s there and has a pleasure tinge to it

[graceabounds]

Have a vague sense that opening of tension in the heart that that shame/vulnerabilty is the same opening love can flow from, and can feel a trickle of it

Can the valve be opened for more than a trickle?

[Jenness]

Can the valve be opened for more than a trickle?

Feels like it’s allowing for more hurt to open, but also see just allows more feeling, kind of like it’s the same valve for feeling hurt vs feeling love. And don’t see how it would actually affect ability to protect self, because would still know if someone was doing hurtful things to me, and probably would feel the hurt more readily. And this kind of love doesn’t have the same clinging dependence quality on someone i don’t think so doesn’t lead to more hurt if lost. Seems helpful to have the intellect part agree it’s safe so it doesn’t fight as much, though not sure if actually just caught more in thoughts and using them as crutch. Have also been circulating the flow of energy to play with it and calm it down. There’s still ownership of the emotional energies, and so they cause discomfort , but have the sense the mind seeing how these energies are flowy things that i can play with and then it changes how I feel , might loosen up it’s ideas about the emotions and what they are

[graceabounds]

Does it allow for more direct experience to open? Is there a correlation?

[Jenness]

Does it allow for more direct experience to open? Is there a correlation?

Like does opening that valve lead to more direct experience? Yes, it feels like more directly and intimately contacting the experience. So it’s not that opening to hurt opens to love , but more like opening to hurt is letting love touch the hurt , or that coming closer to anything IS love. That’s cool! Definitely makes things less scary. And then looking for what the me is that’s coming closer to things and can’t find it. It looks more like attention gets focused into creating this world where there’s a self and there’s the emotions etc. , and it can block out reality with some effort. There was some sense or maybe it was just a thought in image form of energy being used to create this illusion like a hologram or something. Weird.. will explore more

[graceabounds]

Yes keep exploring this…

How does the energy move or flow in this thought-image or hologram?

Opening is moving without resistance.

[Jenness]

Yes keep exploring this…

How does the energy move or flow in this thought-image or hologram?

Opening is moving without resistance.

Energy seems to go into stabilizing a piece of experience so that it can appear to be a self , often it uses a tension that appears to stop energy flow and then it’s a lot more believable that there’s a stable thing here that’s a self, and attention focuses on that tension instead of other areas, or else attention just kind of wanders and it’s hard to focus it into a task or goal orientedness. It’s like too non-chalant on its own, and takes creating a bit of discomfort with tensing that attention focuses into the goals that the thoughts want it to do

[graceabounds]

Precisely. Tension does not equal self.

Now...
Can you feel the tension that creates the “center”? Does it have a location?

When you need to perform a task does tension actually help? Is it needed?

Without intentionally tensing is there a self stabilizing anything?

[Jenness]

Now...
Can you feel the tension that creates the “center”? Does it have a location?

It’s in my head, chest and pelvis /souas . Mostly head, and if head loosens, goes to heart, if i loose that, then souas clenches. If I let them all go, then I’m floaty feeling

When you need to perform a task does tension actually help? Is it needed?

Tried this and it helps me keep attention on the thing, like a bit of discomfort keeps the attention on the task. Otherwise the mind wanders, i lose what I was doing and don’t remember, and it also slows things down. Doesn’t feel needed though, but feels like requires retraining attention to place it on the task and keep bringing back, instead of using a self hurting discomfort to motivate staying on task

Without intentionally tensing is there a self stabilizing anything?

No, there feels like just a floaty blob, and not sure what’s going on. Initially a little checked out like when sleepy but if come into everything then there’s a vividness and wonder and aliveness