RaamS

[indianguy]

Hi Jon,

And actually I did not ask you to look for or think about 'me'.
This exercise is in fact very simple.

You're right, I was judging myself for the answer. It sounded way too simple, and almost lazy, as if I was just repeating a statement that you made, and I sort of forcibly complicated the way I was exploring.

Things will become clear, perhaps very soon

Hearing this is so reassuring, Jon, thank you so much.

Please don't worry about where this is going , or if it feels like the "wrong direction" at the moment.

It doesn't feel like the wrong direction, but there is certainly some question or rather some mental commentary about this. I will set this aside for the time being.

So, seeing is experienced , it just happens.

Yes, that is clear.

Would you say that mental activity, which may or may not come too,, makes seeing happen? Or is it something different , something extra, in addition to the seeing?

No, I can clearly say that the mental activity does not make seeing happen. Seeing does not even require deliberation and is taking place even if I am passive or in a possibly thoughtless, half-asleep state with eyes open.

The mental activity is definitely an additional one. At times it feels like conscious, deliberate thinking, at times it feels more involuntary, but whether the thought is about what is being seen or about something else, it is clear that seeing does not require this mental activity.

Some additional comments:
You did not ask me to stop or do anything with the mental activity, but I wanted to add this:

Particularly with seeing, it is hard for me to see without labelling. Even with a largely featureless wall, the fact that it is called a wall, the noticing of something like a stain or a dent on the wall was constantly followed with not exactly the word for the stain or dent, but the recognition as a feature seems like a mental activity that is pretty hard to not do. Even though this is the case, I can say for sure, that seeing does not require mental activity.

Is hearing just happening?

Hearing is also just happening, Jon. There is no sign of anything that is doing the hearing and it's just here, it's just happening. Just as with seeing, there is no need for mental activity for hearing to take place, it can happen whether there is thought or not.

Kind regards,
Raam

[JonathanR]

Hello Raam

. You're right, I was judging myself for the answer. It sounded way too simple, and almost lazy, as if I was just repeating a statement that you made, and I sort of forcibly complicated the way I was exploring.

That's ok. Plenty of people do this to begin with.You're on the right track anyway now.

.
It doesn't feel like the wrong direction, but there is certainly some question or rather some mental commentary about this. I will set this aside for the time being.

Well, it's good to notice that there's mental commentary but thank you.

. The mental activity is definitely an additional one. At times it feels like conscious, deliberate thinking, at times it feels more involuntary, but whether the thought is about what is being seen or about something else, it is clear that seeing does not require this mental activity.

Very good

. Particularly with seeing, it is hard for me to see without labelling. Even with a largely featureless wall, the fact that it is called a wall, the noticing of something like a stain or a dent on the wall was constantly followed with not exactly the word for the stain or dent, but the recognition as a feature seems like a mental activity that is pretty hard to not do. Even though this is the case, I can say for sure, that seeing does not require mental activity

Again, this does seem very clear.

About the labelling. You describe it so well with the way that attention can divert to something like the stain in the wall and from there to thinking about almost anything. Its good notice this.

Is it possible to prevent thoughts from appearing? This is interesting. Try preventing a thought or thoughts from appearing. What happens?

Also, is it possible to create a thought? Try creating a thought from scratch. What happens?

. Hearing is also just happening, Jon. There is no sign of anything that is doing the hearing and it's just here, it's just happening. Just as with seeing, there is no need for mental activity for hearing to take place, it can happen whether there is thought or not.

That's clear then. I wonder about Taste and Touch and Smell. Do these all just happen?


All best

Jon

[indianguy]

Hello Jon,

That's ok. Plenty of people do this to begin with.You're on the right track anyway now.

Thanks!

About the labelling. You describe it so well with the way that attention can divert to something like the stain in the wall and from there to thinking about almost anything. Its good notice this.

Thank you Jon.

Just something I've been meaning to talk to you about:
Please let me know if I'm going a little too far with some of this. I'm trying to stick to your pointing, directions and answering your questions while also using the best of my intelligence, leaving no stone unturned as a way of submitting myself to the process completely. I am also trying to expose to you exactly how my mind-person is receiving and interpreting your pointing, in the hope that you would point out any digressions or error in my way of looking.

Although we agreed that I would set aside any other teachings and, to the best possible extent, my memory and gathered knowledge from books, videos, etc, a good part of even the intelligence I seem to have, with respect to this process is from the ideas gathered from these sources. Of course, these have been assimilated and internalized into my own, subjective, personal version of them which, I believe, are now a means to see more honestly and in a more authentic manner than I used to, recognizing and filtering out thoughts and looking at the present moment sincerely. Nevertheless, they are at least derived from some of these sources, and I'm noticing that at times, I'm going a little further ahead than where you're pointing.

In case this is proving to be a distraction or hindrance rather than benefiting our enquiry, or if it is even a bit of an annoying deviation from the way in which you would rather have me look, please let me know, and I'll try to set all else aside to the extent possible, Jon.

Is it possible to prevent thoughts from appearing? This is interesting. Try preventing a thought or thoughts from appearing. What happens?

It took me a while to even get to the stage of seeing what thoughts are going on currently. Incidentally, "alright, what are my thoughts currently?" was an unnoticed thought for a while :)

I'll need a little time before I can give a clear answer for this, Jon. Currently, the mind seems to be largely quiet and it feels like I need to "create" some thoughts before I can attempt to prevent or suppress them. I will respond to this part as part of tomorrow's post please.

Also, is it possible to create a thought? Try creating a thought from scratch. What happens?

It feels it is sort of possible, but feels very forced. I was frantically looking to get something to think about, and relied on the immediate environment for inspiration to make a thought out of. Once or twice, I had to verbally or at least mentally say something out and then think about it to, well, turn it into a thought. Ultimately, I'm wondering if I'm just claiming a spontaneously occuring thought to be one that I created.

I then just looked around and started naming things in my head, but "deliberate" thoughts like that feel a little elusive, they didn't seem to "stick".

It is either the environment (stimuli such as what I see or hear around me, or on my phone) or some other spontaneous mental activity that comfortably brings up a thought.

I wonder about Taste and Touch and Smell. Do these all just happen?

Touch:
Touch has, by far, been the least disturbed by mental activity, it is easy to feel it as a pure sensation. And, as with seeing and hearing, it's just happening, and there is no sign of a someone or something actually doing the activity of touching. It is as effortless as the others, and is just here.

Taste and Smell:
If judgement is kept aside in the case of taste and smell, on some level they, particularly taste, do not seem very different from touch in terms of the sensations themselves.

Of course, in the case of a "strong" taste or smell (I'm referring to memory for this part, and not speaking from any experience in the present moment), there's a bigger "distance" from these and touch.

As for whether there is a someone or something that's doing the activity of tasting or smelling, the answer is still no. They just happen whenever enough stimulus is available for them and the sensation is actually active.

Unlike seeing and hearing, and even touch for that matter, I wouldn't call smelling a continuous activity, but when a smell is noticed, smelling is happening here, that's all. Taste is probably a little more continuous if I were to consider the neutral taste (or touch?) Of the saliva in my mouth, but as with the other, there's no someone or something that is doing the tasting.

And similar to the case of the other senses, mental activity is not a necessity for these sensations to take place. Some memory or reference would be needed to identify a taste or smell, but to merely taste or smell whatever is available to the sense, thought is not required.

Best rgards,
Raam

[JonathanR]

Hi Raam

. Please let me know if I'm going a little too far with some of this. I'm trying to stick to your pointing, directions and answering your questions while also using the best of my intelligence, leaving no stone unturned as a way of submitting myself to the process completely. I am also trying to expose to you exactly how my mind-person is receiving and interpreting your pointing, in the hope that you would point out any digressions or error in my way of looking.

It is possible, even likely, that you are intellectualising and overworking. There is literally nothing "you" could do to make this inquiry happen faster or to work out any answers (that will not appear by themselves).

The mind is busy. However. In terms of looking at the senses and noticing that these just happen youve answered questions quite clearly.

. I'm noticing that at times, I'm going a little further ahead than where you're pointing. In case this is proving to be a distraction or hindrance rather than benefiting our enquiry, or if it is even a bit of an annoying deviation from the way in which you would rather have me look, please let me know, and I'll try to set all else aside to the extent possible, Jon.

Without more information I cannot know where you mean by 'a little further ahead', nor what is involved in this. And actually, it could be a distraction. I'll leave it for you to notice whether or not it's helpful or hindering.

. It took me a while to even get to the stage of seeing what thoughts are going on currently.

It shouldn't take too much effort actually. Just a little bit of focus. That's all. A thought appears , seems to occupy attention for some time and then seems to disappear, or be replaced by another thought that appears. Do you recognise this scenario?

Can the appearing thoughts be prevented from appearing?

. It is either the environment (stimuli such as what I see or hear around me, or on my phone) or some other spontaneous mental activity that comfortably brings up a thought.

Interesting. Does that mean that you can't really originate a thought from scratch ?

Well done with the other three senses. You were quite thorough with these.

Jon

[indianguy]

Hi Jon,

It is possible, even likely, that you are intellectualising and overworking. There is literally nothing "you" could do to make this inquiry happen faster or to work out any answers (that will not appear by themselves).

Thanks for clarifying, Jon. In a strange way, this makes me feel a little secure.

The mind is busy. However. In terms of looking at the senses and noticing that these just happen youve answered questions quite clearly.

Thanks, Jon.

Without more information I cannot know where you mean by 'a little further ahead', nor what is involved in this. And actually, it could be a distraction. I'll leave it for you to notice whether or not it's helpful or hindering.

For now, I was only referring to the elaborateness of my answers, and the level of detail I've been going to. I understand that there is some intellectualizing with respect to that, from your response above. From wanting to not miss out on any detail, it feels right to explain things to this extent, so that you would at least be able to pick parts of my response that feel relevant.

I've been trying to, and shall continue to be as elaborate as feels necessary to convey to you as to what is being observed, to the extent that it feels honest and authentic. I will report to you in case I notice that something feels inauthentic from my side.

A thought appears , seems to occupy attention for some time and then seems to disappear, or be replaced by another thought that appears. Do you recognise this scenario?

I do, Jon.

Can the appearing thoughts be prevented from appearing?

I guess, if a thought has come up, it has already appeared, and, at best, a resistive reaction to it is what is possible at best. So, it feels like it is not possible to stop a thought that has come up.

The remaining case is that of a thought that hasn't come up yet. Since thoughts arise spontaneously or in relation to the previous thought, I'd say it is possible to "change the topic". I am able to stop a train of thoughts about a particular topic by deliberately seeking out a different train of thought using distractions.

I don't think I can interfere with the activity of thinking itself.

However, I am able to reduce attention I give to it, by focussing on a sound or other sensation that is going on. I'm not sure if the activity of thinking completely stops in such a situation.

Apologies for a roundabout response here. This is what I'm able to say about it, Jon.

Does that mean that you can't really originate a thought from scratch ?

I suppose I could say that. A question can make me think about something specific, to try and generate a relevant response, but even if I ask myself the question, the thought that tries to answer it is generated as a response to the question that was asked.

Even the sudden remembrance of things come from either a spontaneous appearance of a thought or a series of thoughts that can make you remember something that you felt you were supposed it - it all feels like it was generated as a response to something or something that came from an absolutely spontaneous place that I did not deliberately will into happening.

So, yeah, in the truest sense of "scratch", I don't think I can create a thought from scratch.

Well done with the other three senses. You were quite thorough with these.

Thanks, Jon.

Best regards,
Raam

[JonathanR]

Hello Raam

Thank you for keeping up a regular response. This regularity really seems to help those who can manage to do it (and not slow down).

. From wanting to not miss out on any detail, it feels right to explain things to this extent, so that you would at least be able to pick parts of my response that feel relevant.

Yes. Understood. And that makes sense.

. I guess, if a thought has come up, it has already appeared, and, at best, a resistive reaction to it is what is possible at best. So, it feels like it is not possible to stop a thought that has come up.

There is value at this stage in checking your immediate experience in this respect , every so often. But good.

. The remaining case is that of a thought that hasn't come up yet. Since thoughts arise spontaneously or in relation to the previous thought, I'd say it is possible to "change the topic". I am able to stop a train of thoughts about a particular topic by deliberately seeking out a different train of thought using distractions.

I see what you're saying. A bit like diverting a stream of water so that it flows in a different direction?

But still that stream itself ( whatever its origins) somehow flows, and can not really be prevented from flowing?

Another question is , that diversion that was introduced, where did that come from? Where did that diverting thought originate?

It may seem as though such a thought originates from "me"? If that is the case it should be possible to catch sight of a self 'creating' such a diversionary thought. But is this what happens in actual experience?. Notice what happens in practise.. Could it be that even the diverting idea appears rather spontaneously and then there's another thought-assumption that "I created a diversion"?

. I don't think I can interfere with the activity of thinking itself.

Most interesting

. Apologies for a roundabout response here. This is what I'm able to say about it, Jon.

That's fine Raam and perfectly honest.

. So, yeah, in the truest sense of "scratch", I don't think I can create a thought from scratch.

Then goodness! What does!!?

Best regards

Jon

[indianguy]

Hello Jon,

Thank you for keeping up a regular response. This regularity really seems to help those who can manage to do it (and not slow down).

Thanks a lot Jon. I should be the one thanking you, for taking time out of your day to guide me and help me out on this journey. I'm really grateful to you for doing this, and will try my best to continue being regular.

There is value at this stage in checking your immediate experience in this respect , every so often.

I'll try to do that regularly, Jon.

I see what you're saying. A bit like diverting a stream of water so that it flows in a different direction?

Yes, exactly.

But still that stream itself ( whatever its origins) somehow flows, and can not really be prevented from flowing?

Yeah, that would pretty accurately describe what it feels like.

Another question is , that diversion that was introduced, where did that come from? Where did that diverting thought originate?

That question did come up yesterday. But it felt like the statement, "It is either the environment (stimuli such as what I see or hear around me, or on my phone) or some other spontaneous mental activity that comfortably brings up a thought." covered up the answer almost inadvertently. In this case, part of what I call the "environment" would be our discussion related to the stopping of a thought which - let's say, semi-spontaneously (since there's some relation between stopping a thought and changing it) triggered the intention to explore the changing of it.

So, it felt like it was sufficient to say that it is either the environment or something else that is spontaneous.

It may seem as though such a thought originates from "me"?

When unexplored on when the attention is far too busy engaged in something else, it seems easy to believe that and act accordingly.

If that is the case it should be possible to catch sight of a self 'creating' such a diversionary thought. But is this what happens in actual experience?

Yeah, if the intention to divert the thought indeed arises from me, it should be possible to catch a glimpse of the self creating such a thought, but just as with the case of the senses, there is no evidence of a "what" or a thing that is doing this.

Could it be that even the diverting idea appears rather spontaneously and then there's another thought-assumption that "I created a diversion"?

Yes, ultimately speaking, even the diverting idea is appearing as spontaneously as any other thought and isn't "special" (or created by me).

And yes, the belief that "I created a diversion" is yet another thought, perhaps a more familiar one but a thought nevertheless. Since there is no evidence of me actually creating it, this thought is definitely just an assumption.

As the diversion occurs, there is a feeling of a deliberation, which is probably just another thought-assumption because, while there are thoughts and feelings, there is no clear feeling of a doer of these things that are happening. This deliberation feels like an extra level of mental activity especially when compared to senses like hearing and touch where there is no seeming effort involved. However, even though there may be a feeling of deliberation as this attempt to change the topic of thought occurs, there is no sense of someone or something doing it. This also feels like it is something that is just happening, just here.

When left unnoticed, however, something that I'm habituated to calling as "me" can claim that it originated the thought or deliberation to do something.

Then goodness! What does!!?

:) I suppose one can only say it is happening spontaneously. Probably there is some possibility for theorizing the pattern of how thought occurs like how one might speak of the organs of sight and hearing, for the activity of seeing and hearing to take place. There do seem to be visual or sound-based triggers that "remind" of things that we then think of, or even help us interpolate between things we are familiar with, and come up with ideas. However, experientially speaking, thought just seems to come up out of the blue.

Best regards,
Raam

[JonathanR]

Dear Raam

Those were thorough and detailed answers. Thanks. I don't feel the need to query anything you have said because it makes sense.

In connection with thoughts though, is it clear that thoughts appear.rather in the way that sensations such seeing or hearing do ; they just happen? Is there any doubt that thoughts really do spontaneously appear?

But what of their content? What thoughts are "about"?

Do you notice that thoughts can be ABOUT almost anything , but that whatever the narrative they contain it's not actually happening here and now? That often it's all about "I" in a "future" or a "past", neither of which is.really happening now?


Best regards

Jon

[indianguy]

Dear Jon,

Those were thorough and detailed answers. Thanks. I don't feel the need to query anything you have said because it makes sense.

Thank you!

In connection with thoughts though, is it clear that thoughts appear.rather in the way that sensations such seeing or hearing do ; they just happen? Is there any doubt that thoughts really do spontaneously appear?

The short answer is yes.

However, I am sure that there are situations where it can get difficult to remember this, such as when going through physical or probably even emotional pain, or during any scenario where there is a desperation to get something over with. This is largely from my own imagination of possible situations where I could feel overwhelmed enough to not be able to remember this. I don't think this qualifies as doubt but it can probably be considered as a condition where this fact could be forgotten, I suppose?

Nevertheless, it is clear at this moment, that even if I am unable to remember this, I am not creating thoughts or thinking them up, thoughts are coming up like what is being seen or heard. There is no evidence of a one (a "who")/thing (a "what") that is doing the thinking.

Do you notice that thoughts can be ABOUT almost anything , but that whatever the narrative they contain it's not actually happening here and now?

Yes I do, Jon. And, yes, even if the thought is a commentary on something that is happening here, the thought, in actuality, is the commentary or the narrative which is basically something that is not happening now.

That often it's all about "I" in a "future" or a "past", neither of which is.really happening now?

Yes, and even if it is a seemingly objective thought or idea that's probably not about me, it is often quickly followed by a thought like "That's a cool idea, I should probably write it down", thereby connecting it to me and also adding a future element to it, that is basically not happening here now.

An additional comment related to thought observation in my specific case, that could be relevant or irrelevant:
In the past couple of years, I have tried to develop the habit of moving attention from thought to some aspect of the present moment such as a sound or sensation based on some teachings of Dr. Angelo DilLulo, one of the non-duality teachers that I started following on YouTube. This is something that is resorted to when I notice attention in thought, especially when sitting quietly either for meditation or just without a need to engage in mental activity. I won't say that I have fully adapted this practice, but there is a habit of turning attention away from thought when I notice that I am engrossed in thought.

In case of thoughts that I'd consider worthwhile or important (particularly pieces related to writing), I try to note it down on my whiteboard or phone so that there's no more holding onto it in the head.

This removal of attention from thought is not as complete as I once thought I might be able to do, but seems to happen partially rather than completely, with some holding and some letting go.

This could be one reason why there was some struggle with trying to observe and prevent/suppress thoughts as per your suggestion in one of our earlier posts (My reply was part of the post I put up on on Fri Sep 22, 2023 7:43 pm).

I have no idea if this is helping you understand my mental framework in any way, but I wanted to just share it with you in case this is relevant to know.

Kind regards,
Raam

[JonathanR]

Hello Raam

. I have no idea if this is helping you understand my mental framework in any way, but I wanted to just share it with you in case this is relevant to know

It's all good.

. However, I am sure that there are situations where it can get difficult to remember this, such as when going through physical or probably even emotional pain, or during any scenario where there is a desperation to get something over with. This is largely from my own imagination of possible situations where I could feel overwhelmed enough to not be able to remember this. I don't think this qualifies as doubt but it can probably be considered as a condition where this fact could be forgotten, I suppose?

Yes. I understand.
This is interesting. It raises the question of whether there is any control over whether or not the clarity, the lack of doubt can be held onto or 'remembered' ? And also, if it seems to get forgotten, if there is control over when clarity might reappear?

. Nevertheless, it is clear at this moment, that even if I am unable to remember this, I am not creating thoughts or thinking them up, thoughts are coming up like what is being seen or heard. There is no evidence of a one (a "who")/thing (a "what") that is doing the thinking.

. Ok! Good!

. now?
Yes I do, Jon. And, yes, even if the thought is a commentary on something that is happening here, the thought, in actuality, is the commentary or the narrative which is basically something that is not happening now.

Good. So a thought may actually turn up but it's content remains a kind of commentary or narration. The content is not actually happening here and now.

. there is a habit of turning attention away from thought when I notice that I am engrossed in thought.

.

You might find that you are able to relax and not seek to change anything much.

Also another thing which you may find interesting and helpful is to allow focus to move from head look area and thinking, to the heart . Try it for ten minutes.

My apologies. I realise that I am too tired and exhausted rightn now to finish writing. I will wait until tomorrow.

Kind regards

[JonathanR]

Hello again!

To continue..

. there is a habit of turning attention away from thought when I notice that I am engrossed in thought.

Are you suggesting that this in a good or a bad habit?

. This could be one reason why there was some struggle with trying to observe and prevent/suppress thoughts as per your suggestion in one of our earlier posts (My reply was part of the post I put up on on Fri Sep 22, 2023 7:43 pm).

I see.

Would you say that this practice is an attempt to remain in the Now?


Best wishes

Jon

[indianguy]

Hello Jon:),

It's all good.

Thanks!

This is interesting. It raises the question of whether there is any control over whether or not the clarity, the lack of doubt can be held onto or 'remembered' ?

Going by the previous discoveries about how thought arises, I can only say that there cannot be such control.

The forgetting, just like the other thoughts, would take place spontaneously. Similarly, remembrance, if it takes place, would have to be spontaneous and take place out of the blue.

That would only imply that there is no control over whether the clarity can be remembered. There may appear to be some deliberation in trying to hold onto the remembrance, and some practice might seem to even improve the possibility of remembrance but ultimately, it would still be out of control. If and when the lack of doubt is remembered, there could be a narrative, a justification and other forms of commentary, but the forgetting already happened.

There's also the possibility that the remembrance doesn't come up at all, and it appears like there would be no control over that.

And also, if it seems to get forgotten, if there is control over when clarity might reappear?

No, just like with whether the clarity can be held onto, there can be no control over when it might reappear.

There could be thoughts, after remembering, like, "Ah, I finally remembered it. How could I get caught up in that after having concluded that there's no evidence of a thinker?", but that would be part of the mental commentary that comes in response to a thought as spontaneously as the thought itself. If it was indeed forgotten for the period that it was, it would be impossible to deliberately decide to remember. One could say that they remembered, but it is just that remembrance happened.

So a thought may actually turn up but it's content remains a kind of commentary or narration. The content is not actually happening here and now.

Yes, I would say so.

Also another thing which you may find interesting and helpful is to allow focus to move from head look area and thinking, to the heart . Try it for ten minutes.

It was certainly quite relaxing, Jon. When you said "the heart area", I took it to mean the part that feels like me rather than the chest area though that's kind of where the focus was. Towards the end I felt like I was in a sleep-like, oblivious state.

You might find that you are able to relax and not seek to change anything much.

Yes Jon, it does feel relaxing, particularly when I sit down to meditate and do this.

If it happens a little more passively from habit rather than from a conscious decision, I suppose it happens a little half-heartedly and there's a simple, perhaps lazy, even a dismal feel because attention sometimes hasn't let go of the thought and turned fully to the present moment.

My apologies. I realise that I am too tired and exhausted rightn now to finish writing.

Please don't apologise, Jon, I am the one who should. In spite of being from the Indian timezone, I tend to push posting my response to you to nearly the end of the day which, in my case, runs late into the night, so that I am alone, not worrying about any remaining tasks to finish and can take the time to enquire patiently and post instead of ticking it off like a to-do item. In wanting to do so, at times, it gets so late that it is probably pretty late at night even for you, who, I assume, live in a timezone slightly behind this. I apologize for putting you in a position to have to reply so late to me. Please feel free to respond to me even a day late if that's more convenient. I am already extremely grateful that you are even taking the time to do this, and I'd feel pretty bad if it puts you in a position where it disturbs your rest.

Are you suggesting that this in a good or a bad habit?

I was just mentioning it to give you a little more insight into how my mind works, Jon. This is a habit I've tried to develop based on suggestions from non-duality teachers, and so I do think it is a good one. It is not one that I am very good at, but based on the irregular practice I've done so far, it has become a partially-developed habit. I meant to say it primarily because I was reflecting as to why I couldn't just quickly notice a thought and respond to the earlier post, and it felt like this was part of the reason for that.

Would you say that this practice is an attempt to remain in the Now?

Yes yes, that's the reason why I started practising it, I'm not particularly adept at it yet, but sometimes, even passively, my attention turns to the sensations or to something in the present moment. At times, it feels a little lazy to go through with it, and it looks like attention turns from thought but it doesn't feel like it is fully in the present moment, just passive sensing and probably some attention in a half-formed thought. Just conveying this as well, to just give you an idea of how my mind is, Jon.

Kind regards,
Raam

[JonathanR]

Hi Raam

. . I am already extremely grateful that you are even taking the time to do this, and I'd feel pretty bad if it puts you in a position where it disturbs your rest.

Not at all Raam. I had been working full time over the weekend and this was sending me to sleep. Don't feel bad, I'm happy to guide. I was simply tired at that moment.

Thank you for all your answers. I'm going to challenge you to look directly today...

. Are you suggesting that this in a good or a bad habit?
I was just mentioning it to give you a little more insight into how my mind works, Jon.

What mind?

. This is a habit I've tried to develop based on suggestions from non-duality teachers,

Well, I'm not a teacher of non-duality because it just IS. I simply point to it Nothing to teach.

It is certainly good not to hide any misgivings or doubts and to just write honestly but I do not ask you to make a practice of anything other than that.

.
Would you say that this practice is an attempt to remain in the Now?
Yes yes, that's the reason why I started practising it, I'm not particularly adept at it yet, but sometimes, even passively, my attention turns to the sensations or to something in the present moment. At times, it feels a little lazy to go through with it, and it looks like attention turns from thought but it doesn't feel like it is fully in the present moment, just passive sensing and probably some attention in a half-formed thought. Just conveying this as well, to just give you an idea of how my mind is, Jon.

That's to assume that there is a "my mind".

This also assumes that the NOW is not already given, not already here (and that a someone needs to "practise" it).

Could it be the big irony that what already IS cannot be 'practised' and that no 'self' could make it happen?

Jon

[indianguy]

Hi Jon,

I had been working full time over the weekend and this was sending me to sleep. Don't feel bad, I'm happy to guide. I was simply tired at that moment.

I completely understand, Jon. If, for some reason, you are unable to respond for longer than a day too, I can completely understand.

Well, I'm not a teacher of non-duality because it just IS. I simply point to it Nothing to teach.

I really wish and hope that your pointing gets recognized here, Jon, and shall try sincerely to look.

It is certainly good not to hide any misgivings or doubts and to just write honestly but I do not ask you to make a practice of anything other than that.

Sure Jon, I'll try to keep doing that.

I'm going to challenge you to look directly today...

Thank you, Jon.

What mind?

I will start looking in the direction of your questions tonight, but wanted to request an extra day's time to respond. I'm doing some last-minute preparing for an exam that I have tomorrow and would like to take time and patiently enquire before I write my responses to you.

Apologies for delaying my response, Jon.

Kind regards,
Raam

[JonathanR]

Hi Raam,

Hey, no delay. No need to apologise. If time is needed its simply needed. That's perfectly ok.

I hope the work on your exams goes well.

Speak soon

Jon