Direct pointing

[Roberto]

Hi Sandra,

I’ve been noticing what happens when I follow your suggestion to observe movement. When I move my hand, I can’t find a self controlling it. I feel the movement, I notice the sensations in the arm and hand, I see the hand moving—but when I look for a separate “me” doing it, there is nothing solid to find. The movement appears naturally, and the sense of a self moving it seems assumed rather than present.

At the same time, I notice a subtle doubt arising. There’s a part of me that wonders if I’m seeing correctly or missing something, and this doubt itself is present. When I look closely, the doubt cannot be found as a separate, solid entity either—it just appears within awareness like everything else.

I can see that my experience is caught between recognizing that no self is present and the habitual feeling that something “should be” there. This seems to make direct recognition of no-self feel partial or incomplete, even when I see that the hand moves without a controller.

Thank you for encouraging me to look in the moment and through movement—I can see how this is pointing to the absence of a self, and I continue to notice where doubt and assumption arise in the process.

I realize that part of my expectation has been for an “aha” moment—a sudden, clear shift where no-self is fully recognized. This hasn’t happened yet. Even while seeing that the hand moves without a controller, the recognition still feels conceptual and incomplete. I sense that there is more for me to do in practice, continuing to look carefully at movement, perception, and attention.

Thanks
Rob

[Canfora]

Hi Rob,

As always you're doing amazing. Even if you don't think you are. You may think something is missing but there is a lot of clarity in what you're sharing.

Well done. I love the hand exercise. It's a very simple direct way of observing if there is a self here, moving the hand, controlling the body, inside the body, that is the body. If you find looking to movement helpful keep observing movement. See if there is a self appearing among anything that is happening when body moves. If possible avoid the kind of inquiry that you notice takes you away from the seeing into doubtful thinking mode.

I believe this exploration can be similar to a letting go process. And it seems to me that you are starting to let go. Letting go of expectations, letting go of fear, letting go of what you've learned, letting go of your assumptions about what you are, letting go of what you think you know - while you keep coming back to this, again and again. Coming back to this present, always available, immediate, now flowness. Coming back to what is here/now has it is. Most people spend a lot of time and money running from this and it takes courage to go the opposite way. This inquiry is about staring reality in the face, straight on. This make take practice and need some time to become a habit. Fortunately it can be done a moment at a time.

Then there is the seeing. The seeing doesn't take time and doesn't need practice. People may miss what seeing is because it's so easy to do and we believe we have to work hard to get what we want. It's easy to miss that the seeing is IT. A endpoint. A checkmate. When seeing there is nothing else that is needed. You don't have to think, to immagine, to use memory, to engage in answering questions. The seeing is always on. When you look, here it is, always present, life, flowing, in a seamless way.

It's the looking that shows you without a doubt that there is no self here, in this seeing experience. It's the thinking that will create the illusion that there is something more, that this can't be it, that it seems a self is real, somewhere, ready to show itself.

I realize that part of my expectation has been for an “aha” moment—a sudden, clear shift where no-self is fully recognized. This hasn’t happened yet. Even while seeing that the hand moves without a controller, the recognition still feels conceptual and incomplete. I sense that there is more for me to do in practice, continuing to look carefully at movement, perception, and attention.

Yes, you are right. Thank you for your honesty. There seems there is more that needs to be done. So let's do it! Would you agree that that which is real can be sensed in one or more ways? That which is imagined exists only in the mind?

Do this little exercise. Close your eyes and imagine you are holding a watermelon in your hands. Imagine it so vividly that you can feel its weight, the shape and texture of the skin. Hold it there, sensing it, and open your eyes. What happened to the melon? How about the sensation that was so believable?

Let me know how this goes.

Take care,
S

[Roberto]

Hi Sandra,

Thank you for your last message and the watermelon exercise—it really helped clarify something important for me.

When I did the exercise, I couldn’t make the watermelon feel completely real, but I could imagine some sense of weight and shape. When I opened my eyes and saw my hands were empty, there was a brief sense of surprise, followed by the clear recognition that it had never actually been there.

This pointed something out very directly. I can now see more clearly what you are guiding me toward—that the sense of self is similar to the imagined watermelon. It seems to be assumed and suggested by thoughts and sensations, but when I look for it directly, it isn’t actually found in experience.

I’ve also spent several years already looking at what is controlling body movement, so this part of the inquiry is quite familiar. What is different now is that I understand much more clearly that the “controller” is not just absent, but that the sense of it is an illusion in the same way as the imagined watermelon.

At the same time, I notice that the illusion is still very convincing. It has been my lived experience for 53 years, so it continues to appear automatically even though I can see through it to some extent.

I also resonate with what you said about this being a kind of letting go. There is a sense of that here, but it also feels like the mind doesn’t quite know what it is supposed to let go of, since there isn’t anything tangible to release.

And I really appreciate the way you described seeing as a kind of “checkmate.” That landed strongly. It helps me sense that this isn’t about building something new, but about clearly seeing what is already the case.

I’ll continue looking in the way you suggest—coming back to direct experience and noticing what is actually present.

Thanks again for your guidance,
Rob

[Canfora]

Hi Rob,

Thank you for your lovely reply.

This pointed something out very directly. I can now see more clearly what you are guiding me toward—that the sense of self is similar to the imagined watermelon. It seems to be assumed and suggested by thoughts and sensations, but when I look for it directly, it isn’t actually found in experience.

Well, that is not exactly what I'm pointing to. Noticing the sense of self may be a entry point but you are still looking at a distraction. Yes, there is a very real sense of self sometimes. If you think this sense of self is a real thing, a separate self, then you can look and check if the the sense of self is or points to a real self.

If you already realize the sense of self isn't a self you can look further.

You can look to what is here now just as it is. To the view.

Without relying on thoughts, imagination, what you think you know and what you assume to be present, what can you see?

Have a look around. See what is here. Just look. Can you see a self? A thing that is a self?

If it helps, you can take photos of the view. I know it may sound silly but ~ if a self is real ~ you can find this self somewhere in the view and you can also take a picture to prove its existence. So try to do that. As silly as it may seem, try to find a thing that is a self to take a picture of this self and prove that a self exists. Indulge the craziness of your guide and go on a photographic safari hunt for a self. Then look to the photos and see if among what can be seen present in the photos you can find a self.

Then have a look again to the view. Just look. Can you find a real self? Does such a thing exist?

Let me know how it goes.

Take care,
S

[Roberto]

Hi Sandra,

Thank you for your guidance—this exercise was really helpful.

I did the “photographic safari” as you suggested. I took photos of my surroundings, including some of myself. Looking at the images, I couldn’t find anything that could be called a self in any of them. Even in the photo of “me,” there was just a body and a face—very familiar, of course—but nothing that corresponds to what I take a self to be.

What stood out was how impersonal the photos felt, including the one of myself. It was simply an image, no different in essence from the others.

When I look at what I mean by “self,” it seems to refer to something like a centre of experience—something that feels like it is the one living life, reacting, becoming defensive, getting offended, making judgments. That still appears quite convincingly in experience.

At the same time, when I look for that self directly—as something that exists in what can actually be seen, sensed, or found—it isn’t there. I can’t locate it as an object or entity, only as thoughts and sensations that seem to suggest it.

I’ve also started to notice more clearly that concepts are still coming in quite strongly. There is a tendency to interpret or label what is being experienced, and I can see that this is getting in the way of simply looking at what is here directly.

So there is a strong sense that this “centre” is not actually real in the way it appears, but rather something constructed or assumed—an illusion, much like the imagined watermelon, though more persistent and convincing.

I'll continue looking as you suggest—returning to the view and checking what is actually present.

Thanks again,
Rob

[Canfora]

Hi Rob,

Happy to know the exercise was helpful.

When I look at what I mean by “self,” it seems to refer to something like a centre of experience—something that feels like it is the one living life, reacting, becoming defensive, getting offended, making judgments. That still appears quite convincingly in experience.

Yes, that's very convincing. It seems you are here, living your life. That's selfing - the self illusion appearing, created by thoughts + sensations.

This inquiry isn't a way to make the story of you disappear. This is not a way to escape your daily life. But what happens if you look to the ideas you have about what is going on and then see if they match what is being experienced?

"I am the center of experience, I am something that feels like it's the one living life." Does identifying with the experiencer at the center of everything prove the existence of a real self?

Can you see how those thoughts are entirely superfluous and an I that feels everything is personal is never actually found in experience?

Como back to this moment, come back to what can be experienced before the story of a self starts being convincing. Have a look. Can you find a real self that is the center of experience? Or is this central self an idea that also is appearing in experience?

Take care,
S

[Roberto]

Hi Sandra,

Thank you for your guidance—this is helping to clarify things.

Looking more closely, I can see that when I try to find a self as the centre of experience, nothing actual can be located—only thoughts and sensations. There isn’t an entity there.

What does seem to happen is that there are sensations and reactions, and then thoughts appear that label them as “happening to me” or “I am the one experiencing this.” There is also a sense or feeling that seems to suggest a centre, but when I look at it directly, it also breaks down into sensations plus thoughts about it.

I also noticed that after this looking, thoughts arise like “I’m not sure,” or “I don’t fully trust this seeing.” But these also seem to be just thoughts appearing, rather than evidence of an actual self or a problem with seeing.

So it seems that clear seeing happens, and then it is followed by thoughts that question or reinterpret it.

I’ll keep looking as you suggest—returning to what is actually present and checking whether a self can be found, rather than relying on what thoughts say about it.

Thanks again,
Rob

[Canfora]

Hi Rob,

Well done, that's the way to go. Looking forward to know if you can find a real self :)

So it seems that clear seeing happens

Imagine you are talking to a friend and you want your friend to experience this clear seeing.
What would you ask your friend to do, so that he would be able to see this?

Take care,
S

[Roberto]

Hi Sandra,

Well done, that's the way to go. Looking forward to know if you can find a real self :)

A self will never be found, but the “checkmate” clarity of this still feels elusive. There is a sense of frustration, effort, and continued seeking that seems to keep the illusion alive, even though no actual self can be located in direct experience :(

Imagine you are talking to a friend and you want your friend to experience this clear seeing.
What would you ask your friend to do, so that he would be able to see this?

I would ask my friend to try and drop any concepts or expectations.

To look at direct experience—seeing, hearing, and sensations—and notice with clarity that a sensation is just a sensation, and seeing is just seeing. That there is noticing of experience, and if there seems to be a self doing the noticing, then to try and find it directly.

To see that thinking about this is not helpful, and that stories or labels are just thoughts appearing, not evidence of anything real.

When the body moves, I would ask them to look for a controller of the movements, while being aware that thoughts or urges are not a self unless they can actually be found and experienced as one.

Today at work I was surrounded by the sounds of machinery and people talking, while I was standing alone in a room. There was noticing of the sounds, and noticing that the body was standing without any mental effort. There was even a kind of noticing of noticing, and the mind felt very quiet.

Then there was a looking for a self in direct experience, but there was just a sense of a blank mind. Soon after, I noticed the mind trying to comment—the internal voice that usually feels like me was seen more as just another thought, with no real authority. It was quickly dismissed and seemed to vanish.

This seemed to unfold over about a minute. Then, when I re-entered the noisy environment and began interacting with objects and tasks, the sense of self appeared to start running again on autopilot.

What felt different about that period of looking was that there was no sense of conscious intention or effort—no feeling of seeking. The dismissal of the internal voice also happened without any resistance or mental tension; it was simply seen and dropped.

When I am at home and deliberately trying to find a self in direct experience, there is a very clear sense of intention, effort, and seeking present. These seem to give rise to a sense of a self. It feels like this happens after a thought or urge that is so quick I don’t see it unfold in real time—it is only noticed afterwards.

Thanks again
Rob

[Roberto]

Hi Sandra,

I noticed something in the inquiry today.

When I was responding to the question about what I would ask a friend to do, I included phrases like “sensation is just sensation” and “seeing is just seeing.” On reflection, I saw that this introduces a kind of conceptual position — as if there is someone correctly interpreting experience from a particular standpoint.

It feels like that subtle position can easily replace direct looking without being noticed. When it is present, inquiry can become more about applying a framework to experience rather than actually checking what is here.

When I looked again, I could see that those descriptions are just thoughts appearing, and they don’t need to define or interpret what is actually happening. There is seeing, hearing, sensation, and thinking occurring, but the added layer of framing it in concepts seems optional and potentially distorting if it goes unnoticed.

I’m going to continue looking more simply, without trying to describe experience in advance, and just checking what is actually findable in direct experience.

Thanks,
Rob

[Canfora]

Hi Rob,

Thank you for your replies. Many people that come to the Gate struggle with the how to do this, where to look at and what to look for. You are very skilled doing all of that. Which is great!

A self will never be found, but the “checkmate” clarity of this still feels elusive. There is a sense of frustration, effort, and continued seeking that seems to keep the illusion alive, even though no actual self can be located in direct experience :(

This is where you seem to be a little stuck.

How invested are you in your identity as a seeker? Do you feel that without seeking you would not be you or you would be missing something or something similar?

Let's say the seeking would stop. How would that feel like? Would you feel lost? Would it feel like you would stop doing what makes you be yourself?

Let's say I ask you to stop inquiring for the next 3 days. Would that be an issue?

Take care,
S

[Roberto]

Hi Sandra,

How invested are you in your identity as a seeker? Do you feel that without seeking you would not be you or you would be missing something or something similar?

Let's say the seeking would stop. How would that feel like? Would you feel lost? Would it feel like you would stop doing what makes you be yourself?

Let's say I ask you to stop inquiring for the next 3 days. Would that be an issue?

Your questions actually made me smile when I read them. They really highlighted something subtle that seems to be happening here around selfing and the identity of being a seeker. It helped bring into view how that sense of “me” can still be tied up in the seeking itself.

How invested are you in your identity as a seeker? Do you feel that without seeking you would not be you or you would be missing something or something similar?

Looking at this honestly, I can see that there is a strong investment in the identity of being a seeker. It feels like seeking has become something I associate with who I am.

I’ve even said to my partner many times that I won’t be able to put this down until it’s complete, which now seems to reflect that attachment quite clearly. There’s a sense that without seeking, something would be missing, or that I wouldn’t quite be “me” anymore.

Let's say the seeking would stop. How would that feel like? Would you feel lost? Would it feel like you would stop doing what makes you be yourself?

If the seeking were to stop, I suspect it would feel like a huge part of “me” would be missing. I’m not entirely sure if I would feel lost, but it does seem possible — like there might be a kind of empty space there.

It also feels like it could be experienced as stopping something that has come to define what makes me be myself.

Let's say I ask you to stop inquiring for the next 3 days. Would that be an issue?

The inquiring feels like a strong habit at this point, so I suspect it would continue to appear even if I were asked to stop for a few days.

I also notice that I haven’t really looked at the seeking itself in the same way — I’ve been focused on looking for a self, but not at whether there is a self in the seeking. It feels like that could be something important to explore.

Thanks
Rob

[Canfora]

Hi Rob,

I'm also doing inquiry at the moment. The husband told me that I needed to find a hobby so I've been reading and doing the experiments in Greg's Goode The Direct Path book (and I've also started learning how to play an electric guitar - go me!). Although Greg's an amazing guide it boggles the mind how I struggle to see what he is pointing at sometimes. But I wouldn't say I'm seeking for something, it's more about being curious and exploring.

What are you seeking?

Take care,
S

[Roberto]

Hi Sandra,

What I’m actually seeking feels like clarity about whether there is anything real that is “me” in experience.

There’s a sense that something is claiming or owning what’s happening, but when I try to look directly, I can’t clearly find anything apart from thoughts and sensations.

At the same time, I can see there’s still an expectation that seeing this clearly would resolve something — maybe a sense of confusion or incompleteness.

So it feels like I’m caught between suspecting there is no real self, but also still feeling like there must be something there that I’m not quite seeing yet.

What I’m noticing is that the looking doesn’t feel like simple curiosity — it feels more like seeking, with a sense of pressure to get somewhere or resolve something.

There’s an urge to figure this out and reach some kind of clarity or completion, and that seems to keep the process going.

At the same time, when I look directly, I can’t actually find anything that is doing the seeking — it seems to be thoughts, sensations, and this drive appearing on their own.

So part of what I’m seeing is that the seeking itself might not belong to a “me,” even though it feels like it does.

Thanks
Rob

[Canfora]

Hi Rob,

What I’m noticing is that the looking doesn’t feel like simple curiosity — it feels more like seeking, with a sense of pressure to get somewhere or resolve something.

Yes, sure. But where can you go to see what you are looking for? Where would this somewhere be? Where could you resolve this?

There is this story going on about you, what you want, what you hope to reach, the seeking, etc. Can the story take you away from this moment, can the story make this present experience unclear?

What happens if you look?

Just look. Where else could a self be than here?

When you look where is the story? Can you find it? Where is the seeker? Can you find it?

Can you see that, when you're not thinking, the view is always clear?

Take care,
S