Above All Else I Want to See

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tnudge
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Above All Else I Want to See

Postby tnudge » Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:32 am

Now.
Is it really possible to be free of this? This desire, this fear, this compulsion, this pain, this addiction, this talk, this me, this fantasy, this dream? Is it really possible
Now?
And if so, and if I wannt to be free of it, then why am I not? What part is so insistent on dreaming?
I want to know with certainty freedom.
I want to know with certainty love.
I want to know with certainty who I am.
I want to know with certainty God, the Creator.
What I know now is not certain.
Please help me, I am determined to see.

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Metta777
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Re: Above All Else I Want to See

Postby Metta777 » Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:45 am

Could you tell me your first name please. It sounds like there are a whole lot of expectations here and many " I's ". First thing is in life there are no guarantee's of anything. I am available as a guide and will assist in any way I can. There are a few conditions to that. 1. Communicate with me daily. 2. try to let go of any preconceived ideas. 3. Try to put aside temporarily any religious practice for now and maintain and open mind. 4. Try to be as honest as you can in response to any questions posted here. If this is agreeable we can start. Tell me something about yourself and what you have hopes of happening as a result of doing this. Thanks, Metta777
"This too shall pass"

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tnudge
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Re: Above All Else I Want to See

Postby tnudge » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:58 am

Dear Metta77,
Thank you for accepting me. I am humbled by your willingness. My name is Thuy. I can agree to your conditions. One thing, however, is that I am currently working on A Course in Miracles. I do not know if you consider it a "religious practice", but I am unwilling to let that go as I feel it is assisting me in seeing. If that is acceptable to you, I am eager to begin.

Yes, I do have many expectations and yes it's all I this and I that. I imagine if I were without expectations and without this I companion, I would not be here seeking guidance.

Today, I searched for I and could not find her. I experienced momentary stillness but then observed that I became very doubtful and suspicous of the stillness that I felt. Then the thoughts came faster than I could observe. I attempted this throughout the day and found that it was very difficult for me to stay with the peace, stillness and quiet that arises when I find nothing. What I notice most is the doubt comes in first. Really, it says. Is it so easy. All this searching for this. It just feels like nothing. It doesn't feel like those glorious despcriptions that you've read about and yearned for. You must be doing something wroing...so on and so forth.

I have been searching for God since I was a child. I do not know what stories to tell you about myself, they all feel so constructed and flimsy. It is easier for me to write about what is happening now. And sometimes, that changes very quickly too. But I will write what comes to me. Spiritually speaking, I feel that I am waking. Something feels very sped up to me in these past few weeks and I feel almost like I am on the verge of a cliff about to fall in. It isn't so much that it feel scary, only it is curious to me that I am not allowing myself to fall in though I have been wanting this so desperately all of my life. I feel myself still enjoying my I construct and unable and unwilling to let go completely. I have a knowing that it is all or nothing and so the frustration is that while I feel that I am waking, I know that I am still deep asleep because I have not awakened.

I am very (intellectually) versed in many things spiritual. Like I said, I have been searching all my life. I also live with 3 ruthless masters (a 2, 5 and 9 year old) that point me in that direction everyday. I feel that my intellect is too fully developed is keeping me from something. Trust, love, letting go--none of which are intellectual processes.

Many people look to me for guidance. In this society I am known as a healer and a teacher. I seem to be able to provide them with some help and when I do, it is always through alignment with a greater Source. Often times, they think I am helping them, but I am not as I am too caught up with helping them.

What I hope to gain here is a sense of certainty. I do not have that. I have a continuing doubt. I do not know how I measure up, so to speak. I do not know if this brief silence I feel when I search for I is where I need to stay. I do not know if this seeking is taking me further or closer to that which I long for. I do not know which direction to turn.

You say in this life there are no guarantees. I am not sure what you mean by that or how you meant it. But I do have this stubborn knowing. I know that there is more to this than I know. And I know that the only thing in the way is me. I just don't know how to get out of the way and I seek your guidance for this.

In deep appreciation,
Thuy

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Re: Above All Else I Want to See

Postby Metta777 » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:09 pm

Hello Thuy, There is no need to search, for God. Look within and everything that is needed is there. It may be that you are identified with the search. It reminds me of an old story of a man who searched for God everywhere, up mountains, in the valleys, in dangerous places, it was thrilling, exciting, he saw so many things. Then one day, amazing, there was the house of God!! He hesitated , stood there for a long while, finally he quietly tiptoed up the steps and went to reach for the bell at the door. Then shaking he ran away as fast as he could, in case God came to the door. He thought to himself, " If God answers and I finally find him, what will become of me? " So he went back to searching, it was so exciting,dangerous, he traveled far and wide, had so many stories to tell, but he carefully avoided going anywhere near where God's house actually was.
There is no " I " , thoughts arise, feelings arise, sensations arise. What are they? What is behind the thoughts? There is breathing, eating, sleeping, when breathing look at your chest and see it rising and falling. Who is breathing? Look inside. Is there someone there saying breathe! Who is the teacher? who is the healer? Are there labels attached to that? Namaste, Metta
"This too shall pass"

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Re: Above All Else I Want to See

Postby tnudge » Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:14 pm

Dear Metta,
Thank you. I imagined myself seeing God's house and I wondered what would I do. It would be very difficult for me to knock on the door straightaway...not because I am enjoying the search, you see. But I would not feel worthy. There is something here to discover. I can feel it welling inside me. It is connected to this feeling of uncertainty, which would probably be better described as insecurity. There is some story there. Some story hiding, undiscovered, where the I is hiding out. This is useful, yes.

Yes, I understand the misleading nature of labels. That is why I prefaced my statement with "In this society, I am known as...". I myself do not feel that I heal or teach anybody with my doing. In fact, I am humbled when the tables are often turned, when my patients and students show me that I know very little.

And here you are telling me that I don't even exist.

I can feel the truth of that. But the utter totality of knowing is still beyond me and it feels somehow connected to this feeling of insecurity. The I is hiding in this fear.

I once wrote a poem for my newborn child that started:
Who beats your heart, brown babe?
Breathes, you, laughs you...

I understand what you are pointing to.
Thank you.
Thuy

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Re: Above All Else I Want to See

Postby Shell » Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:23 pm

Hello dear Thuy,

Hi, Shell here. Just dropping in with a note of comfort. See, Im an ACIM student/ teacher too. And there are a few of us through the illusory gate. Some of us, like me, are guiding here, by the way...which does not mean for an instant that we do not continue with ACIM. Should this be of any comfort to you?

I dont think Metta will mind me stepping in here with a prayer that will probably mean a lot to you from ACIM. And it is this one, dear, from a lesson that you will surely remember:,

"Simply do this: Be still, and lay aside all thoughts of what you are and what God is; all concepts you have learned about the world; all images you hold about yourself. Empty your mind of everything it thinks is either true or false, or good or bad, of every thought it judges worthy, and all the ideas of which it is ashamed. Hold onto nothing. Do not bring with you one thought the past has taught, nor one belief you ever learned before from anything. Forget this world, forget this course, and come with wholly empty hands unto your God".

You will not be betraying the Course or the Giver of the Course...it will ALL be there for you after you have passed through the gateless gate...but I most sincerely recommend that you use this prayer whilst you engage in this process...and FORGET everything that you think that you have ever learned from the Course. I promise you...after the non existant gate...the entire Course will mean WAY much more to you, much more deeply.

Do you know what brought me to LU? A prayer. I prayed for a very long time that I would understand what Jesus meant by: "dont ask to see your brother without a body. Ask instead to see him sinless" (OK: I have not quoted perfectly here, but if as you say you are a devoted student of the Course you will know exactly the passage I mean),

On top of that, I used the prayer that I have just suggested that you use. The one I pasted above.

It transpired that LU was the means for me to answer the prayer for myself. I TRULY know that the Son of GOD is totally guiltless, totally innocent...not because of devote intellectual and from the heart study...but because of engaging with compelte honesty in this process.

Its really really late at night here and I m really tired, so will not check this message for errors...or edit it. It came from the heart.

You can really really trust Metta. You can really really trust this process. But, as (and still in this very moment as) a fellow Course teacher and student...I really recommend that you drop all your Course studies except for the prayer I gave you above...which is from the Course....and let Metta lead you. She DOES know the way.

And when you are through the gateless gate...you will have a deeply visceral understanding of the Course that is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much deeper than your understanding now, and be able to continue and study it and teach it from a far deeper extremely personal revaltory understanding. And not an intellectual one. A deeplly deeply personal visceral one.

Forgive me Metta if I have intervened...but Im seeing this a lot these days...Course student/teachers coming in her...which is WO'NDERFUL. But...just like the frenchies and the italians and the fijians and the finns do...there is a Course language which is sometimes helful to use.

With all my love to you and Metta,

Shellxxx

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Re: Above All Else I Want to See

Postby Shell » Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:40 am

..............and I really really LOVE the title of your thread, "above all else I want to see". Well, you will dear. In truth you already have.

Shell xxxx

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Re: Above All Else I Want to See

Postby Metta777 » Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:36 am

Hi Shell, this is fine, lovely prayer. The poetry was lovely and touching also Thuy.
The intellectual understanding is there, and this is okay, sometimes it is the way it starts. Perhaps there are some labels not examined yet. There is no " I " or doer. So is there a doer? Can a doer be identified? Fear is natural and for many part of the process, just let it be there. does it seem to settle in any one part of the body? The breathing is there, sensation, seeing,hearing, just let them arise. How are they arising? Observing the chest rising and falling, be completely and feel it. Warmly, Metta
"This too shall pass"

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Re: Above All Else I Want to See

Postby tnudge » Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:17 pm

Hi Shell,
Thank you. Last night when I read your post, I was resistant to giving up on the Course. This morning, I reread and something inside me softened and I am willing to leave it for now with the prayer you've brought. It is a matter of trust, yes. Even as I write that, the tears swell up in my eyes. I hadn't realized trust was such a big issue with me...not in this way. I feel the fear of letting go of what I think I know and how I think it should be done. The title of my thread was the ACIM lesson I was on that day: Above All Else I Want to See. I was feeling a little ashamed of being so impatient, searching around here in LU. For though ACIM is working well for me, I have a sense of urgency and impatience about the process...that I cannot see what is plainly here and now. My compromise to ACIM and myself was that I would do both. But now you've given me permission to let go of ACIM curriculum for now. I will trust that. I feel the love flowing from your message and I recieve it gladly. Thank you for your kindness.
Thuy

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tnudge
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Re: Above All Else I Want to See

Postby tnudge » Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:42 pm

Hello Metta,

So is there a doer? Can a doer be identified?

There is doing. Is there a doer? What it feels like is that there is a compulsion to do something and then there is a person doing it. Where does the complusion come from? It feels like it comes from a thought. And then an action follows. Where does the thought come from? Historically, I would so it comes from me. But now I don't know what me is. I feels like it comes from the past. I don't know if doing is possible without a doer who feels like a cumulation of past thoughts. Can I identify a doer? I cannot identify a doer that is separate from what she is doing, thinking. I cannot identify a separate entity. The doer seems like a cumulation of separate sensations and thoughts.

Fear is natural and for many part of the process, just let it be there. does it seem to settle in any one part of the body?

I would say I feel fear in my heart, in my throat and in the pit of my stomach.

The breathing is there, sensation, seeing,hearing, just let them arise. How are they arising?
They dont' seem to be "arising", they just are there automatically. Although, I do seem to have the will to stop them. I can close my eyes, but then I suppose I'm still seeing inside my eyelids. I can plug my ears but the hearing doesn't stop completely. I can hold my breath or quicken my breathing, but it just happens on its own again.

Hmmm...is doing like that too?

Thank you,
Thuy

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Re: Above All Else I Want to See

Postby Metta777 » Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:54 pm

It feels like it comes from a thought.
Yes and is there an actual identity in a thought.
I feels like it comes from the past
Again, Yes, :-), in the past labels, names were taught to you from another source. there was conditioning , your mind grabs things and puts a label on them. Is this identity though or just conditioning?

I cannot identify a doer that is separate from what she is doing, thinking. I cannot identify a separate entity. The doer seems like a cumulation of separate sensations and thoughts.
[/quote ]There are feelings, sensations, touching, smelling, these are direct experiences. So what is the difference between the reality of direct experience and conditioned response? The past is dead, it cannot be rerun. It is only thought. Without direct experience what is left?
"This too shall pass"

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Re: Above All Else I Want to See

Postby Metta777 » Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:58 pm

I cannot identify a doer that is separate from what she is doing, thinking. I cannot identify a separate entity. The doer seems like a cumulation of separate sensations and thoughts.

The quote function messed up below, sorry.
also, the future has not occurred, so it is only projection of thought forms. Regards, Metta
"This too shall pass"

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Re: Above All Else I Want to See

Postby tnudge » Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:14 am

Hi Metta,
No, there is not an actual identity in a thought...but there is feeling of an identity in the cumulation of all thoughts. I can see that there is no individuated entity that thinks thoughts, only the thoughts themselves create a sort of illusion of a separate entity. It seems the thoughts are the generator of this "identity" rather than the "identity" generating the thoughts. Hmmm....but who/what is the generator of thoughts?

What is the difference between direct experience and conditioned response?
I don't know because I don't know that I've ever had direct experience without conditioned response.

Without direct experience, what is left?
It seems that only conditioned response is left, which is ...well, thought.

Still observing physical sensations and still just watching...
Thuy

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Re: Above All Else I Want to See

Postby Metta777 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:40 am

there is not an actual identity in a thought...but there is feeling of an identity in the cumulation of all thoughts. I can see that there is no individuated entity that thinks thoughts, only the thoughts themselves create a sort of illusion of a separate entity.
wonderful, yes, exactly.

It seems that only conditioned response is left, which is ...well, thought.
Again, yes, :-) Direct experience is what we see, smell, hear, taste, touch, etc. Then along comes conditioned response with labels, thoughts, ideas. So is there a doer? what is behind the thoughts? who is observing? That was an excellent question, is there a generator of thoughts or does it just happen? Warmly, Metta
"This too shall pass"

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Re: Above All Else I Want to See

Postby tnudge » Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:31 am

Metta,
I don't know who the doer is. I don't know who the generator of thoughts is. I just don't know.
With all sincerity,
Thuy


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