Mental Space-Science

[Space]

315, I don't know what is looking. In my view the seeker and the sought co-arise as two sides of one 'event,' in mental space. This event passes when the seeker finds. Then there is finder and found, another mental event, but no common identity between the two states. You say there is no looker, just looking. no seeker, just seeking. This also makes sense to me, so I am not sure at the moment. Here is my story: I sought enlightenment very intensely. I saw no-self, but nothing changed. Seeking continued just as furiously as before. There was great clarity into the absence of self, but no satisfaction. Intuitively I knew that this was another mental position. A mental position with no one behind it. So I sought to eliminate the mechanism that drives 'life' to take positions. Eventually I came across the teaching of Lela, the play of consciousness. Then everything clicked. It is still clicking. Consciousness is not a self. It is what is prior to duality. When you ask me what is looking we are in the realm of duality. There are no answers there. There is no looking except in duality. Duality means distinction. To me there is consciousness, then pure undifferentiated being. Then the movement of consciousness. A slight stirring of consciousness births a rich and colorful universe. Desire arises and seeking occurs.

[Ilona]

thank you for answer.

so there is desire and there is seeking and that is what brought you here. what do you expect from this? describe, what is it that you want to change, that haven't changed after you saw no self. in detail, please.

yes consciousness is not the self, but is it prior to anyting?

[Space]

You're welcome. Thank you too.

Change is one of the primary qualities of the manifesting experience. To desire change is silly because change is a given. There is nothing happening that needs to change and there is no desire for it. There is pure potentiality and from this, the human experience and the guarantee of mental positions arises. Being human is already a nearly infinite leap away from the state I describe. Because it is only imagined. I am reminded again and again of the first verse in the Tao which says that from the one, two, from the two - infinite distinctions. Please tell me if I am not communicating clearly. If my points arouse mental positioning, I would like to reword them in a way that they resound only as clarity.

[Space]

That is, I have no ill will toward you or your position. I feel only love.

[Ilona]

I hold no position, space.
And I hear you haven't been totaly honest here, have you?

[Garsius Tyla]

I hold no position, space.
And I hear you haven't been totaly honest here, have you?

He was not, not even for a penny.

[Space]

Garsius and 315 - There is one intelligence here pretending to be many beings. Knowing that the source of so much suffering and delusion is the pretending part, why BIND what is free to the shackles of mental accusations? In the stream of becoming 'this' or 'that' the mind has a tendency to divide and conquer 'that' over 'this' - this is ultimately a form of assimilation, an attempt to ultimately unify. The unity is already there, dear one. This finger-pointing is merely another form of control, which also arises from the same formless creativity. You know nothing of me, as your mental labels reach only a false identity. It is no more important to protect "this" identity, than "that" identity. I am neither myself nor am I you. Only ideas swirling around and interacting. One image touching another, along with the projection of one type of energy or another - whether that is love, or spitting, this is also, of course, in the hands of the imagination running this show.

[Garsius Tyla]

Wait wait... hmm, I think he is Dalai Lama. Or maybe... even a pope...
Lie is lie my friend. And dishonesty is dishonesty ;)
So which one are you? ;)

[Space]

Honestly, it seems we give each other very little to work with. I'm very sorry for contributing to the lack of a solid communication. I definitely have an agenda. It's the same as yours perhaps - to pass truth along. Perhaps, I'm beginning to think, it's easy to bring delusion into this sort of agenda before a solid and unshakeable distaste for all mind-originated activity is developed. I definitely don't think everything I have said has come from a place of honesty, so sorry about that.

A while ago, I saw what happened to many RTers after getting liberated. There were some massive swells of ego and rigidity in thinking. Misuse of intellect. Crusades. Hive mentality. Posturing and defensiveness. Of course one would need to defend "the truth." That's just another thing consciousness creates and identifies with to preserve its sense of separation, its sense of being alive, and of being right. This to me is the danger in teaching that you can get "initiated" or "assimilated" into a group-oriented Truth. It was really funny - like "wow! The most deluded people on the planet are the enlightened ones."

Of course! It makes perfect sense now. There is no higher label to apply to oneself than "enlightened." Especially not in the internet (lol) where you can pick and choose what the context for you to operate in is. It places you above all criterion, all folly. It is in my own case, the delusion that "I am human" that makes me deny and want to ignore this ENORMOUS capacity for folly and delusion. But when I see that it is again, the innocent play of consciousness, that the very nature of consciousness is folly and delusion and imagination, then there is nothing to defend. It's like - Ah! Reality! This is how it is! - I have compassion and also a sort of shimmering feeling of preciousness and love for the confusion.

For me, seeing no-self was inadequate unfortunately and I know it was inadequate for many others. There is a long enough list of people I've spoken to from RT who left the forum willingly, recognizing what had become of their own minds after liberation. This is not an accusation. I have always wanted to help people, and if they think they have already been helped, it is like speaking to Christians who are already "saved." They say, "I don't need any religious or spiritual truth! I am going to heaven." And they are convinced and defensive of their position. I don't want to attack anyone. I just want to introduce people to another possibility since (and when) this doesn't really work for them. I saw Ciaran writing about the same thing. What the hell is going on? Why are people still crazy after liberation? My thought was, why is Ciaran still crazy enough to think that this is liberation?? Maybe some beings like Elena who have gone through a long process of spiritual purification and opening of the heart just need that core intellectual piece popped out of place. I see that some have benefited massively from this, while others just attract more conflict and intellectualize everything everywhere they go. "New tools to implement old habits," as was said once.

[Space]

Ah. Feeling very good right now. Humility. Nothing to defend. No sense of being in possession of truth. A feeling of okayness with my enormous potential to be wrong and the potential to learn over and over and over again. Haheahha.

[Garsius Tyla]

Now. This is much better. Why this could not be your first post here ;) ?

And I agree about almost everything you said in this post. Passing the gate is only a beginning, who argue that? I'm not so familiar with RT. But here, in LN, I doubt you can find one.

[Space]

Okay cool. Dunno what to say now! I guess I'm still learning. :D

[Garsius Tyla]

:D
You got my point. wooohooo :D

[Space]

I feel a lot of pain throughout the day. Some is generated by thoughts, quite a bit is generated from the pain in other people. How to sympathize without getting emotions lodged in my body?

[Garsius Tyla]

Surrender to all, what comes - that works magically for me. Just be aware of thought, be aware how that thought hits a body and vibrate there as an emotion and let it be. No way such emotion will hit you with same strength after that.