The Gate

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
My understanding of no-self is that there is no controller behind my eyes controlling my actions, my feelings. No experiencer of the experienced. Some glimpses have been seen briefly, but it is still mostly conceptual.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking for more than just a solid conceptual grasp of no self and for help overcoming any sticky points and thought identification that come up and moving past some of the fear that comes up like the fear that I might go insane. I know these are just thoughts but they are sticky at times.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect from guided conversation to wake up and see through no self and stabilize the realization, or at least that's my hope. I also experience some fear when really investigating so having guidance with the difficulties would be helpful.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have been practicing soto Zen buddhism for the last 10 years. And I've been working with inquiry off and on for a couple years. I've always had glimpses with the headless way by Douglass harding.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 9

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

First, there is not "a no-self." There is nothing. No self. Your glimpses with Headless Way are likely to have been seeing there is no self. Of course, I'm not in your head, so I don't really know.

stabilize the realization

Well, it is unlikely to be 24/7 bliss. It is more like seeing that Santa Claus is a man in a red suit. When he puts the suit back on, you are not fooled.

One thing that is helpful is to come to this forum & post every day. Sometimes the site goes down. It will be back. Just come back later.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?


Loving,

Hello Stacy!

Thank you so much, yes I would be delighted if you were my guide. You may call me John and my time zone is Pacific time.

Hello Stacy!

My name is John and I would be delighted to have you as my guide. I am located on the West Coast of the United States, my time zone is Pacific Time. yes i have read the disclamer

How will life change?

I guess, life will continue on and not much will change on the surface if anything. But, life would feel lighter without the need for someone to be in control of experience.

How will you change?

My hope is that I would see through the illusion of self and by doing so would remove any need to seek to become a better person. I would also hope that I would become more accepting of my present experience

What will be different?

My perspective would change although how that will affect my life is hard to see right now.

What is missing?

I am not sure what is missing to be honest. I see that my dissatisfaction comes from indentifying with thought and hopefully really seeing through the self illusion may help me let go and be more pres

Thank you, Jack. I'm near Boulder, Colorado.

Your expectations are mostly reasonable.

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.


Loving,

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed

When reading that a feeling of unease runs through my stomach and chest, this appears as a tight feeling. My thoughts start immediately analyzing to see if its true. I also notice some feeling of anticipation, like I'm waiting for something special to happen.

Thank you. Good to know. This question checks for fears. We have some resources for that.

Only fear and expectations can keep you from seeing clearly that there is no separate self.

There is a Direct Looking process for fear.

https://youtu.be/jKX1llYtlKE?si=jHXuuyyVtp7c-1R2

And this one:

https://youtu.be/fSTT8nc8cvQ?si=Alcukpbi7SUlXpfi


Here is an anxiety exercise that focuses a person in the present, and in a part of the brain that cannot do anxiety. Basically, go through each sense and say (or think) "I see/ hear/ feel/ taste/ touch ______________." A minute or two of each and usually anxiety is gone.

I see the couch.
I see the keyboard.
I see the glass. Etc.

I hear the train.
I hear the keys clacking.
I hear my breath. Etc.

I feel the couch under my butt.
I feel my fingers on the keys.
I feel the cold air. Etc.

I taste a metallic taste in my mouth.
I taste the coffee.
I taste the food. Etc.

I smell the humidity in the air.
I smell my husband's shampoo.
I smell the soap. Etc.

As far as I can tell, the only time this doesn't work is when someone won't do it.

The tightness indicates there is a lie. We will cover that more shortly, but I don't want to overwhelm you with too much to do.

Please let me know how those go for you.

Loving,

Thank you for the resources Stacy.

Both videos worked great, especially how to turn fear into safety. I will continue to go back to those.

The anxiety exercise works just as you said, the anxiety does not take long to evaporate.

Thank you again,
John

Excellent!

So now:

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.


Loving,

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

I am clear on this, thank you!

John

So, now try this:

Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Hi Stacy, here are some of my observations.

Thinking of hugging my wife, simply = thought

Hugging my wife, simply = sensation

Seeing co-worker, simply = image/color

Thinking of making coffee, simply = thought

Smelling coffee, simply = smell

Feeling the heat from the grill, simply = sensation

Smelling the smoke from the grill, simply = smell

Hearing truck pass by simply = sound

Hearing a song on the radio simply = sound

Thank you,
John

Very good, yes. Now try this:

u]Mind Labeling Experience[/u]

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Loving

Very good, yes. Now try this:

Thank you Stacy,

I will try this and report back shortly!

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

The experience without the label "I" appears to be more true.

2. What is here without labels?

The direct experience

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

The labels appear to affect the experience. The experience feels like it is directed towards someone when using "I".

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

I noticed that when I use the "I" to describe experience, a feeling of pressure appears around my eyes and head, as well as my chest. When not using the label "I" I notice the experience feels open, less pronounced pressure if any appears.

Thank you,
John