The Gate

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
There are thoughts and emotions referring to a self but there is no actual self to be found. The contents of thought is not found in actual experience which this includes thoughts of a self.

Decisions aren't made by a small entity on the inside. There are just thoughts that pop up, without a decision to make that decision

What are you looking for at LU?
To confirm and tidy up seeing through the self. To leave doubtless through the gateless gate. Having gone through this spiritual path alone, it would be interesting to see what a guide with direct pointing is like.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Questions and direct pointing to my own experience for absolute clarity, by any means necessary. A line of questioning that makes logical sense and to pull me up on my own beliefs that I haven't seen through.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Was a seeker for 18 years.
Main practice was self inquiry.
Recently attended an online 10 fetter retreat.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

Hi JL, let's start here...
Answer from your current experience. Be a bit concise.
Do you think that an inherently independent self exists?
Do you feel that an inherently independent self exists?
Is there an actual past or future?
How do you relate to your thoughts?
How do you relate to your emotions?
Has your relationship to other people changed?
How do you react when conflict/ problems arise?
what is your relationship to life?
Are there doubts? if so please describe them.
If you are not the separate self who/what are you?

Thoughts, concerns, comments ?

vince

Do you think that an inherently independent self exists?

No. It's all one thing.

Do you feel that an inherently independent self exists?

Looking now, there is a feeling of a self, but if I really look, its just a sensation.

Is there an actual past or future?

No. There is only the present experience, where thoughts about the past and future come.

How do you relate to your thoughts?

Thoughts appear to chain and flow. I feel like I engage in them but taking a look at them now, they just appear on their own. The background silence becomes more evident then.

How do you relate to your emotions?

Emotions are used as a signal that a thought/belief is taken to be true, or they just appear with no seen cause. I attempt to dive in a feel them completely.

Has your relationship to other people changed?

I see others behaviour as impersonal to me now. They are running on their own programming. Probably a general acceptance of people

How do you react when conflict/ problems arise?

I notice first the emotion arising, attempt to find the desire/aversion within it, then try to address it at a later time where reactivity isn't in play.

what is your relationship to life?

There is existence and I'm just flowing in it. Plans are made, plans are thwarted. It's all ok.

Are there doubts? if so please describe them.

There is a doubt that I've seen through self as at times I'm right in it and it feels no different to than before. It's only when I look that I don't see one.

If you are not the separate self who/what are you?

Unsure. That which knows experience, while in and as experience.

Thoughts, concerns, comments

Thank you :)

Do you think that an inherently independent self exists?

No. It's all one thing.

Now, I know that I'm Being pedantic here, but just to be clear, what is that "thing"?

Looking now, there is a feeling of a self,

How does a feeling be a feeling of a self and not a feeling of something else?

I feel like I engage in them

Do you actually engage with them? What does it feel like to feel that you engage with them?

It's only when I look that I don't see one.

So if you look and don't find a self, are you saying that there is one if you don't look?

There is a doubt that I've seen through self as at times

So, does this mean that there are times when there is no doubt?

it feels no different to than before.

Is there an expectation that it will feel different than it does?

If you are not the separate self who/what are you?

That which knows experience,

Do you experience an entity knowing experience? ..or is there just experiencing? (don't look in mind for an answer.)

Now, I know that I'm Being pedantic here, but just to be clear, what is that "thing"?

Looking again, there is no thing. There is only the current experience.

How does a feeling be a feeling of a self and not a feeling of something else?

True. I can't actually pin point a feeling of a self. There are only feelings.

Do you actually engage with them? What does it feel like to feel that you engage with them?

It does feel like awareness gets lost in thought, until awareness realises its not and attends to something else.

So if you look and don't find a self, are you saying that there is one if you don't look?

I see now.

The line you gave me last night, "are you doubting that you've seen that there's no self or are you doubting you're awake?", hit home. I was doubting that I was awake.

There is no self whenever I look, so there isn't one there when I don't look either.

So, does this mean that there are times when there is no doubt?

Theres no doubt now. Just thoughts in experience to which no self is creating.

Is there an expectation that it will feel different than it does?

I think there was. There is a sense of relaxation now. Just okay with it all.

Do you experience an entity knowing experience? ..or is there just experiencing? (don't look in mind for an answer.)

There is just experiencing.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Describe how the illusion of an independent, self came into being by giving examples from actual experience.
Then give some experiential examples of how life changed for you after seeing through this illusion.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) Can you remember any specific inquiry that resulted in an epiphany? ..a before and after seeing the actuality of the Self. Was there a point when you ‘got it’?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how these things happen and how they work.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

6) Anything to add?

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

There's no self anywhere, nor was there.

2) Describe how the illusion of an independent, self came into being by giving examples from actual experience.
Then give some experiential examples of how life changed for you after seeing through this illusion.

An example would be recently on a phone call with a friend, that I used to play pickleball with, that just moved from NZ to Australia. He invited me over to stay with him for a weekend of pickleball. Inferiority kicked in, feeling I wouldn't be able to 'hang' with that level of play there. The inferiority itself is the illusion of the sense of self. Seeing now though, its all story revolving around the idea of me. To take it as truth would create suffering. Now its seen as an idea, and no suffering in with dread is occurring. I would used to drag the inferiority story around with me, now theres just openness.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It currently feels... still. Thoughts still happen but they're all okay. The main difference, that caused seeking and doubt, was that I was expecting for experience to be completely different, where I thought I'd have a silent mind and no emotional turbulence ever. Grasping has stopped. Co-incidentally, theres silence now, with no expectation that it'll be like this forever.

4) Can you remember any specific inquiry that resulted in an epiphany? ..a before and after seeing the actuality of the Self. Was there a point when you ‘got it’?

Yes, the inquiry was to look into what my idea of what to be awake looked and felt like, and to see it as just an idea. It was the line "Are you doubting that you've seen that there's no self or are you doubting you're awake?" This paired with the idea that emotions, desires and aversions may still occur after the self is seen through, helped.

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how these things happen and how they work.

Decisions are thoughts that occur as a consequence. There is no little guy inside creating a pre-thought to the decision to make the decision.

For example, a decision to have a friends gathering at my place rather than theirs was made because, we wanted to have DIY Korean BBQ. The smoke would mean we would have to open doors to have it. The friends place had cats so we couldn't open the doors, so the easy decision I made was to have it at mine. This decision was consequential upon many things. There wasn't a mini John inside thinking, "I will now have the thought to decide to have the gathering at mine", there was just the decision itself.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

I'm not responsible for anything. There is just doing happening at the best of my ability.

Example:
Dad asked me to feed his fish while he was away. The first day I forgot. The thought to feed the fish didn't come up because it just didn't, due to circumstance, environment and my personality maybe. I wasn't at fault. The fish are alive and well btw, they were just on a healthy fast.

6) Anything to add?

Thanks Vince :)