A stable foundation of freefall

[Stealth]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
My glasses were on top of my head the whole time I was looking for them.
Now that I’ve put them on, I’ve realized I don’t need eyes to see.
As a flock of birds moves as one with no one leading the charge, so are we.

What are you looking for at LU?
Sangha and insight.
A community of koans to be present to and consider.
10,000 fingers pointing to something that is no thing.
Leaves rustling together in a tree rejoicing that we are also the wind.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Nothing.
A mirror in which to gaze and see the seeing itself.
The tail of a serpent being born from its mouth as it is consumed. The head of a serpent being being born from its anus as it is excreted.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
entheogenic liberation followed by integration and seeking awakening, inquiry, letting go of seeking, inquiry, awakening, integration, inquiry

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[Magdalena]

Hello, Stealth (is that what you want me to call you, or some other name?),

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed and thank you for waiting. My name is Magdalena and I can join you here if you like.

So, to begin with, let’s get over a couple of formalities.
Please confirm that you’ve read and are OK with the following:
1) The LU Disclaimer http://www.liberationunleashed.com/register/disclaimer/
2) The LU Terms and Conditions http://www.liberationunleashed.com/register/terms/
3) What LU is not https://www.liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041
Also, please watch this short video to learn how to use the Quote function which we will need in our conversation: viewtopic.php?t=660


Now for your Intro. 😊

My glasses were on top of my head the whole time I was looking for them.
Now that I’ve put them on, I’ve realized I don’t need eyes to see.

I do appreciate poetic expression when I see it, but let’s talk mundane for a change.
Tell me – what’s it like to be seeing what is being seen?
In other words, how is life being experienced right now?


And what's this

stable foundation of freefall

in your thread title all about?

Looking forward to receiving your reply.

[Stealth]

Hi Magdalena,

You can call me Seth. Thanks for your reply and thank you for your support in this process.

Yes, I have read and agree to the following:

Please confirm that you’ve read and are OK with the following:
1) The LU Disclaimer http://www.liberationunleashed.com/register/disclaimer/
2) The LU Terms and Conditions http://www.liberationunleashed.com/register/terms/
3) What LU is not https://www.liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Tell me – what’s it like to be seeing what is being seen?
In other words, how is life being experienced right now?

Words fail to express the ineffable feeling of "seeing what is being seen". It feels like a kind of freefall which may answer your other question. I am 'Alice falling down the rabbit hole'. Metaphor seems best to express the thoughts and feelings that arise after what seems to be an "initial awakening" because the metaphor inherently seems to acknowledge an awareness of illusion with a sense of ironic pleasure.

I am aware now of a singularity within that seems to be the same singularity physicists describe before the Big Bang. I am aware that the external world is a mirror of the internal world, the two are interchangeable as they are one.

When I inquire "What is a thought?", I sense the nature of thought emanating from all directions. I don't identify with thought anymore, it just is. Sometimes thoughts are helpful and I lean into their guidance, other times they are helpful in reminding me that I am liberated from their suggestions and point to a habit or pattern that is no longer serving me.

When I inquire "Who am I?", the singularity appears: a nexus point of unknown meeting known. The unknown feeling so lovingly familiar and the known feeling like a comforting illusion.
From the singularity, I get a sense of otherness AND self. I can ask it questions and receive answers in the form of feeling.

Attention and Feeling seem to be the most pure expressions of Who I Am. Both so intangible but always present.

In my daily life I am gentle with myself. I am integrating all of these new revelations and letting go of grasping anything about them. I am enjoying and appreciating the experiences I have as a 42 year old actor/writer with my wife of 18 years and our 17 year old son and 12 year old daughter. We also live with 2 dogs and 3 cats:)

I sometimes recognize that I am acting out of habit or reaction and am developing a practice to liberate from those patterns. Doing so intuitively. What seems to be most effective for me is simply to remind myself to "feel": to surrender all resistance to 'what is' present and allow everything inside me to flow (no resistance between internal and external world).

When I simply 'feel', thought disappears and a sense of intuition emanating from the singularity seems to guide my actions.I trust this singularity so completely as it seems to guide me consistently toward love and fullness of experience.

I'm astonishingly baffled that I feel like an eternal, immortal, omnipotent, omnipresent being, consistently localized in the body of a human being named Seth with aches, pains, fears, scars and memories but when I inquire as to the why of it all, I simply hear the singularity say "trust the process."

I'm so grateful to be able to experience anything at all and am so grateful to have the relationships I do in this localized body.

I get a sense that just as 'initial awakening' liberated me from identifying with thought and illusion of self, there are further awakenings possible. I crave further liberation from what feel like constraints on my being but I also don't want to bypass the opportunities of this experience of being Seth.

I can't remember how I found this forum. I was guided to it somehow from intuition and feeling. Differentiated from thought, I find I need to re-orient myself sometimes.

There is such a strong sense of longing. I'm not sure for what. Thoughts arise that it's a longing to do more creatively, to live more freely, to love more deeply, to conquer the industry or reach enlightenment in a blast of divine explosion but I also get a sense that the longing just is and will always be.

As for

And what's this
stable foundation of freefall
in your thread title all about?

My sense is that this feeling of freefall is the thing to get used to. That this inquiry never ends and is eternal and ephemeral and always changing. That consistency of 'always changing, always falling' is the thing I can rely upon, the foundation on which to stand.
Because falling is also flying.

Thank you Magdalena for being in conversation with me. I look forward to your reply.

[Magdalena]

Hello there, Seth 😊,

Nice to meet you, and thank you for your lovely response.

Words fail to express the ineffable feeling of "seeing what is being seen". … the metaphor inherently seems to acknowledge an awareness of illusion with a sense of ironic pleasure.

I know.

I am aware that the external world is a mirror of the internal world, the two are interchangeable as they are one.

What a beautiful way to put it. 😊

When I inquire "What is a thought?", I sense the nature of thought emanating from all directions. I don't identify with thought anymore, it just is.

Good.

Attention and Feeling seem to be the most pure expressions of Who I Am.

Can you tell me more about what you mean by this?

In my daily life I am gentle with myself.

Good.
And how about relationships with people? Do you see any change?

I am integrating all of these new revelations and letting go of grasping anything about them.

Good.

I am enjoying and appreciating the experiences I have...

Perfect. 😊

… to surrender all resistance to 'what is' present and allow everything inside me to flow (no resistance between internal and external world).

Totally. The best thing one can do under the circumstances is to follow one’s intuition, and relax.

I'm astonishingly baffled that I feel like an eternal, immortal, omnipotent, omnipresent being, consistently localized in the body of a human being named Seth with aches, pains, fears, scars and memories …

When you “feel” into it, without resorting to thought, is it possible to find the limits of “the body of a human being named Seth…”?
Or the inside and the outside of the body?
The internal and the external world?

…but when I inquire as to the why of it all….

What if the answer to your "why" question is not to be had – ever?

…, I simply hear the singularity say "trust the process."

Absolutely. No better advice can ever be given.

I'm so grateful to be able to experience anything at all and am so grateful to have the relationships I do in this localized body.

Lovely. 😊

I crave further liberation from what feel like constraints on my being but I also don't want to bypass the opportunities of this experience of being Seth.

No worries – trust the process. 😉
Would you like to say more regarding the constraints you mention?

There is such a strong sense of longing. I'm not sure for what…

What is missing in WHAT IS HERE RIGHT NOW?

…but I also get a sense that the longing just is and will always be.

You have no way of knowing that. It may or may not happen.
But if this longing should stay till the end of Seth’s days, would that be a problem?

My sense is that this feeling of freefall is the thing to get used to. That this inquiry never ends and is eternal and ephemeral and always changing. That consistency of 'always changing, always falling' is the thing I can rely upon, the foundation on which to stand.

Yes.

Because falling is also flying.

Absolutely. 😊

Looking forward to hearing from you too (please answer all my questions).

[Stealth]

Attention and Feeling seem to be the most pure expressions of Who I Am.
Can you tell me more about what you mean by this?

When I inquire into self, most things disappear except for my attention and my capacity to feel. What I feel is the feeling of feeling and experience a synesthesia listening/seeing/feeling, pure attention merged with sensory experience

Attention and feeling don't seem to disappear.

And how about relationships with people? Do you see any change?

Definitely. I am not reactive to them, I am present to them. All conversations seem to shift and are now more settled and grounded and real.

When you “feel” into it, without resorting to thought, is it possible to find the limits of “the body of a human being named Seth…”?
Or the inside and the outside of the body?
The internal and the external world?

When I feel into it, all is one. When I open my eyes I am almost surprised to be in this body with all these thoughts and stories about the past.
With eyes open now I feel... the world begins to whirl, I am in a stranger's body, it's surreal. And then comforting to orient to the thoughts of identity and memories of relationships and plans for a future that doesn't exist. I can let go of the need to orient to all that and then I feel untethered... I will play with that untethered state more.

What if the answer to your "why" question is not to be had – ever?

That answer makes sense :)

Going to sleep but will reply to your other points tomorrow. Thank you!

[Stealth]

I did as you suggested as I was walking to the car tonight after 4th of July.
Had a beautiful cosmic joke moment, walking down a beautifully lit driveway to get the car at night after a wonderful day with the family.
I felt into my body to see where it ended or even began and went to the nondual space. I then couldn’t stop laughing. I found it so hilarious because I remembered that we’re all just God playing this game where we forget so that we can truly appreciate everything around us. And the cosmic joke of it all is how we take it so seriously when it’s all just a game. I kept laughing and remembering and saying “Oh my God,” and then realized that to remember the punchline of the elusive joke just change the wording to “Oh, I’m God!” We all are.

I’m not sure this conceptual language aligns with the ethos on this forum but the experience made so much sense to me.

The realization helps me appreciate the experiences I have here as a game and I can cherish it so deeply and take it less seriously when I’m being uptight and forgetting it’s all just a game.

Happy Independence Day.

[Magdalena]

Hello, Seth,

What I feel is the feeling of feeling and experience a synesthesia listening/seeing/feeling, pure attention merged with sensory experience

Yes, sensory experience is the baseline.
Like, if you’re seeing, hearing, smelling, touching or tasting, say, a plate of hot food – can you see that the synesthesia of sensory experience is there prior to thought that comes in to label colours, sounds, etc. etc.?
And that the next thing thought does is tell its stories (of whether Seth likes or dislikes this particular dish, whether he’s had it before, who and when he’s had it with, and so on and on...) - the standard blah blah blah?

Attention and feeling don't seem to disappear.

Are you saying that the two are separate? Don't go to mind for an answer - just look into your experience.

I will play with that untethered state more.

Absolutely. Enjoy.

I felt into my body to see where it ended or even began and went to the nondual space.

Can “the nondual space” be separated from “my body”, or “my body” from “the nondual space”?
Oh, and when you say “my body”, whose do you mean exactly? 😉

I remembered that we’re all just God playing this game where we forget so that we can truly appreciate everything around us. … just change the wording to “Oh, I’m God!” We all are. …
I’m not sure this conceptual language aligns with the ethos on this forum but the experience made so much sense to me.

It’s not so much about LU ethos or anything, but – nice as it is - isn’t all the above (remembering, all being god, forgetting it’s a game – and all the rest of it) but a thought story?
In other words, can you know it for a fact?

The realization helps me appreciate the experiences I have here as a game and I can cherish it so deeply and take it less seriously when I’m being uptight and forgetting it’s all just a game.

I see your point. I wouldn’t call it “realisation” though. It's something that some teachers like to insist on, that's all. It may sound like it makes sense, but that's where it ends. Can you see that it's nothing more but an entertaining fantasy?

Now, can you please investigate your partiality to this story? Because it sounds like you’re using it to rationalise something that does not need to be rationalised, and thus to soothe yourself into a sort of more relaxed mode (that’s my story about what you’re saying, and it does not have to be relevant – but still: what comes up when you read what this?).

So, would it be possible for you to kind of look behind the god-forgetting-game etc. story that you enjoy telling yourself?
What’s there?

And then ask yourself: Could you be without that story – but with all the realisations and insights so far?

Happy Independence Day.

Isn’t every day a happy independence day? 😉


Seth, you still have two more questions from an earlier post to answer. 😉 Unless they are no longer relevant, that is. 😊 In which case, it’s fine of course.
1)

I crave further liberation from what feel like constraints on my being but I also don't want to bypass the opportunities of this experience of being Seth.

No worries – trust the process. 😉
Would you like to say more regarding the constraints you mention?

2)

There is such a strong sense of longing. I'm not sure for what…

What is missing in WHAT IS HERE RIGHT NOW?

Looking forward to your reply (please remember to answer ALL the questions).

[Stealth]

Hi Magdalena,

Yes, sensory experience is the baseline.
Like, if you’re seeing, hearing, smelling, touching or tasting, say, a plate of hot food – can you see that the synesthesia of sensory experience is there prior to thought that comes in to label colours, sounds, etc. etc.?
And that the next thing thought does is tell its stories (of whether Seth likes or dislikes this particular dish, whether he’s had it before, who and when he’s had it with, and so on and on...) - the standard blah blah blah?

Yes, definitely see this in regards to separation of experience and thoughts about it. Can you elaborate on sensory experience being baseline? I can see it as an initial baseline in daily activity but once you awaken to no-thingness, is sensory still the baseline (meaning "a minimum or starting point used for comparisons") or does nothingness become the baseline and sensory experience an illusion of the mind?

Attention and feeling don't seem to disappear.
Are you saying that the two are separate? Don't go to mind for an answer - just look into your experience.

Intertwined:) ∞

I felt into my body to see where it ended or even began and went to the nondual space.
Can “the nondual space” be separated from “my body”, or “my body” from “the nondual space”?
Oh, and when you say “my body”, whose do you mean exactly? 😉

It can't separate but my awareness of it changes. There I times I am present to the non-dual and times I am not present to the non-dual. I am not separate from it but like the focus of a camera, one state of awareness is in focus and the other is blurry.

I say "my body" because I seem to have dominion over it. It does not have dominion over the no-thing that is me. I do not seem to have dominion over things that are not "my body". I can choose to move my arm or type on the keyboard. I can't choose to blow the wind. I don't choose for my heart to beat but I can choose to stop it (I don't want to). At least it seems I have dominion. I can bring my awareness and attention to "move arm" and the arm moves. What language best describes that?

I remembered that we’re all just God playing this game where we forget so that we can truly appreciate everything around us. … just change the wording to “Oh, I’m God!” We all are. …
I’m not sure this conceptual language aligns with the ethos on this forum but the experience made so much sense to me.
It’s not so much about LU ethos or anything, but – nice as it is - isn’t all the above (remembering, all being god, forgetting it’s a game – and all the rest of it) but a thought story?
In other words, can you know it for a fact?

I can't know any insight into no-thingness as fact because anything beyond it is a thought story. It's a thought-story that it's a thought-story. The fantasy is that it's all a fantasy.
There is no symbol or word I can use to describe the part that is not fantasy.
"The Tao that can be named is not the Tao."
I can see the part that is not fantasy and that is no-thing. But calling it that is a fantasy.
The word God for me, has become a word to describe the no-thing.

I see your point. I wouldn’t call it “realisation” though. It's something that some teachers like to insist on, that's all. It may sound like it makes sense, but that's where it ends. Can you see that it's nothing more but an entertaining fantasy?

I suppose I use the word realization to mean "thoughts that resonate as true." There is something about some thoughts and feelings that resonate as being true. Perhaps "making sense" is better language?
Isn't anything beyond no-thing-ness a fantasy?
I'd much rather live in an entertaining fantasy than an insufferable one or one that I'm not aware is a fantasy.
Unless this path leads me to a transcendence where caring for and helping my family and loved ones and trying to make a positive impact in the world is irrelevant, how could I not want it to be an entertaining fantasy?
When I am present to no-thing-ness I feel peace but I am always called back to the fantasy whether I will it or not.

I crave further liberation from what feel like constraints on my being but I also don't want to bypass the opportunities of this experience of being Seth.
No worries – trust the process. 😉
Would you like to say more regarding the constraints you mention?

I sleep and I dream, I wake and I dream. None of it seems like it's actually real but here I am. I count how many times I have brushed my teeth or put my children to bed. So many things I have done 30,000 times. It feels tedious. I am tired. There's so much I'm grateful for and so much I just feel like I'm stuck with, trapped in a body.

And I can see that all this is a story.

For all I know I just now manifested in this body and these memories and thoughts are not mine and I truly am free. But according to the stories in my mind, I've "realized" or sensed this truth before. "It's all a story and not what you think. I am truly free," but it's likely tomorrow I'll wake up again and think and feel the same way.
Is there a version of this liberation thing where I wake up to truly being free?

I imagine true freedom as not being stuck in any time or place or in any form. Free to choose form at will, free to set the conditions of the story I'm experiencing. If I want gravity or nuclear strong force to be a different mathematical variable than what it is now, then that's what is.

The most entertaining story or fantasy to me while I appear to be stuck on Earth in a human body in what many people call 2024 is that I am actually a divine no-thing or God and I am pretending to be stuck in a body in 2024 with limited power to exercise will and dominion over what's around me so that I could appreciate that power.
The downside of the true freedom I long for is that nothing would feel like it was of any consequence and so there would be no feeling of there being stakes or consequence. So as a game, I create a realm of consequence where choices matter and there a no take backs. It means there is potentially much suffering in that experience but that is the cost of having a consequential experience. It will all make sense in the end when I finish the game and rejoice in the experience of having so much insight in the experience of polarity and consequence and have learned how to truly appreciate things.

So far, awakening has given me insight into true self and it feels like I have limited access to a great ally that is infinitely wise and full of love but my little dog keeps scratching that she's on the wrong side of the door. There is still laundry to do etc.

What is liberation? Is it letting go of resistance to all the nagging things of life and life keeps happening as it did before or does something magical happen? I'm fine with the magic being that all the nagging things keep happening but I see them as magical. But what else is there? Is best case scenario an entertaining fantasy or is there something else?

There is such a strong sense of longing. I'm not sure for what…
What is missing in WHAT IS HERE RIGHT NOW?

I am. (just be here now.)
I was going to say what's missing is a sustained awareness of here, now but that is a story that is not here and now.
When I am here and now there is nothing missing. The issue is I keep forgetting to be here and now.

Feel. Just be. Right here. Right now.

Some part of me longs for why's. Why this? Why does here look like this? Why is the world the way it is?
I long for an answer that makes sense. The "God playing a game" fantasy makes sense and feels congruent with being present to here, now and no-thing-ness. Is it so detrimental to make sense of the fantasy?

So, would it be possible for you to kind of look behind the god-forgetting-game etc. story that you enjoy telling yourself?
What’s there?

And then ask yourself: Could you be without that story – but with all the realisations and insights so far?

Happy Independence Day.
Isn’t every day a happy independence day? 😉

What are realizations and insights if not a story?
When I let them go, there is nothing.
Nothing is nice for a little while but then something always returns.

Something without insight (and story)...

..is nothing.

I see.

I'm seeking a story to comfort me when other stories make me feel uncomfortable.

What you seem to be pointing to is that I dont need a story to combat other stories. I can be with nothing even when something is present.

There's that untethered feeling again.

I don't know where this goes but I'll keep going.

Thank you and happy Independence day every day :)

[Magdalena]

Hello Seth,

Thanks for your reply.

Can you elaborate on sensory experience being baseline? I can see it as an initial baseline in daily activity but once you awaken to no-thingness, is sensory still the baseline (meaning "a minimum or starting point used for comparisons") or does nothingness become the baseline and sensory experience an illusion of the mind?

Look for yourself.😉 Are they separate? (Btw what you’ve just said is music to my ears.)

Attention and feeling don't seem to disappear.

Are you saying that the two are separate? Don't go to mind for an answer - just look into your experience.

Intertwined:) ∞

More than that perhaps? 😉 Can one be found without the other? Look.

There I times I am present to the non-dual and times I am not present to the non-dual.

Is there a “you” that can be present or not present?
Look.

I am not separate from it but like the focus of a camera, one state of awareness is in focus and the other is blurry.

Yes, that’s how it is experienced.

I can bring my awareness and attention to "move arm" and the arm moves.

Oh really? Here’s some experiments for you to do. Enjoy. 😉

Palm Flipping Exercise
1. Hold a hand in front of you, palm turned down.
2. Now turn the palm up. And down... and up and so on.
Watch like a hawk.
Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:
How is the movement controlled?
Does a thought control it?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.
Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Raising Hand Exercise

1. Place both hands on a table in front of you, palms down.
2. When you have done that, rest for a moment and then raise one hand in the air but not the other.
Don't go to thoughts, examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:
What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?
What is it that is controlling the hand?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
Can anything be found that makes the hand move?
How is the decision made?

I can't know any insight into no-thingness as fact because anything beyond it is a thought story. It's a thought-story that it's a thought-story. The fantasy is that it's all a fantasy.
There is no symbol or word I can use to describe the part that is not fantasy.

Yes.

The word God for me, has become a word to describe the no-thing.

The problem is that some concepts, more than others, are heavily loaded with various meanings from various philosophical and religious systems.
For the clarity of our communication, I’d suggest they are best avoided.
We do understand the no-thing here.😉

I suppose I use the word realization to mean "thoughts that resonate as true."

I consider “realisation” to be much more than that – like being hit on the head with a new, life-changing understanding or perspective.

I'd much rather live in an entertaining fantasy than an insufferable one or one that I'm not aware is a fantasy.

You believe your preferences matter?
You believe that the fantasy you live in (i.e. Seth’s life) is not “insufferable” because you/Seth made it so?
That because now there is awareness of it being a fantasy has been your/Seth’s choice/decision/making?

Unless this path leads me to a transcendence where caring for and helping my family and loved ones and trying to make a positive impact in the world is irrelevant, how could I not want it to be an entertaining fantasy?

You think you’re in control of what happens and how it happens?
Seriously??

There's so much I'm grateful for and so much I just feel like I'm stuck with, trapped in a body.
And I can see that all this is a story.

Of course it’s all a story.
In the story, aren’t there beliefs as to what is more and what is less desirable?
As a result, there are some things to be grateful for, and others that do not elicit gratitude?

Consider this:
Would it be possible to be grateful for the stuff that appears less attractive/desirable/enjoyable – if these very labels were removed from it?
As in, return to the baseline of direct/sensory experience?
Can you look into sensory experience and check whether, by any chance, the sensations are not the same for the stuff Seth likes and the stuff Seth dislikes?
Meaning it’s only the habitual labels that turn each sensation into one or the other?
Tell me what you find.

For all I know I just now manifested in this body

You CANNOT know this. You may have heard or read it somewhere, that’s all. But it does not make it “knowing”.
It’s a belief – a thought story again.
Can you see this?

I am truly free," but it's likely tomorrow I'll wake up again and think and feel the same way.

There is nothing wrong with that, is there?
Unless you have believed someone saying that the non-dual needs to be 100% stable, unchanging and permanent, and as long as you find yourself sort of vacillating, something is wrong – or missing at least? And you need to strive more to get to that ultimate place?

I imagine true freedom as not being stuck in any time or place or in any form. Free to choose form at will, free to set the conditions of the story I'm experiencing. If I want gravity or nuclear strong force to be a different mathematical variable than what it is now, then that's what is.

OMG LOL LOL LOL
Didn’t you say you work in the entertainment industry?
Stories upon stories upon stories.
What else can I say to this? (rhetorical)

The most entertaining story or fantasy to me while I appear to be stuck on Earth in a human body in what many people call 2024 …

That’s fine, as long as you take it as a story.
Like you’re reading a book or watching a film.

The downside of the true freedom I long for is that nothing would feel like it was of any consequence and so there would be no feeling of there being stakes or consequence. So as a game, I create a realm of consequence where choices matter and there a no take backs. It means there is potentially much suffering in that experience but that is the cost of having a consequential experience. It will all make sense in the end when I finish the game and rejoice in the experience of having so much insight in the experience of polarity and consequence and have learned how to truly appreciate things.

More stories.
Down to the one about learning how to… whatever.

… but my little dog keeps scratching that she's on the wrong side of the door. There is still laundry to do etc.

Is this a problem at all?
Is anything separate from LIFE?
Doesn’t LIFE include the dog scratching and the washing machine being turned on when full?
Or did you think once awakened you’d have superpowers at your disposal so you’ll never have to open the door for the dog or press the right button AGAIN?

What is liberation? Is it letting go of resistance to all the nagging things of life and life keeps happening as it did before or does something magical happen?

Well, if you ask me, it is about an underlying okayness with whatever is happening because it is seen that any sort of preference relies on interpretation, and interpretation is thought-label-dependent. This does not mean, however, that no actions are taken, say, to seek medical advice for a health issue or go to work to pay the bills. Basically, life goes on.
Isn’t that magic enough?

The issue is I keep forgetting to be here and now.
Feel. Just be. Right here. Right now.

Oh please.
Is it at all possible to be NOT here NOT now?
Where else can you be?
LOL

Some part of me longs for why's. Why this? Why does here look like this? Why is the world the way it is?

I don’t know.
But if you think anyone knows, you’re asking for trouble (i.e. new fancy beliefs). LOL

Is it so detrimental to make sense of the fantasy?

It certainly does not help to take on any extra beliefs on top of those that are there already – acquired from upbringing, education, living in a particular society, and so on.
Isn’t this “awakening” thing about removing beliefs after all?
As in, for years you believed yourself to be this limited individual called Seth, and now this belief is no longer there.
Get the point?

What are realizations and insights if not a story?

They certainly belong with the story, yes.

I'm seeking a story to comfort me when other stories make me feel uncomfortable.
What you seem to be pointing to is that I dont need a story to combat other stories.

Exactly.
You don’t need more stuff to hold on to. You need less. And less. And less still.


Thank you too, and have a good day. 😊

[Stealth]

A lot of great homework here, thank you. Will be able to work on and through tomorrow and have been ruminating.

[Magdalena]

Whenever you're ready.
Feel free to do it in chunks if that's convenient.

[Stealth]

Your quote of “nothing can be known.”

Does it mean “Nothing” is capable of being known?
Or does it mean it’s impossible to know anything?

Or are both true?

I can know no-thing but when I do it’s a story so I can’t truly know it.

Is your quote meant to be a paradox?

[Stealth]

Also I’m rapidly sensing that there is no I to know anything.

[Magdalena]

Your quote of “nothing can be known.”

It's not a quote and not a paradox.Or maybe it's both. Who knows.

I’m rapidly sensing that there is no I to know anything.

That's rigtht. There isn't.

[Stealth]

Look for yourself.😉 Are they separate? (Btw what you’ve just said is music to my ears.)

Nothing is separate. It's all one unknowable thing.

Can one be found without the other? Look.

Nothing is separate. It's all one unknowable thing.

Is there a “you” that can be present or not present?
Look.

"I" is a story. 'Not present' doesn't exist. Present always is.

Oh really? Here’s some experiments for you to do. Enjoy. 😉

I couldn't find any controller. I felt sensation after the hand move and then story get created around it as thought, that the 'story of I' could add to the story of believing or not believing the thought.

For the clarity of our communication, I’d suggest they are best avoided.
We do understand the no-thing here.😉

Got it.

I consider “realisation” to be much more than that – like being hit on the head with a new, life-changing understanding or perspective.

All definition/meaning is story and so is language. I don't know who or what it is that understands something or changes perspective. It is not separate from all that is. The awareness of aspects of the story appear to change and thoughts and feelings in kind.

You believe your preferences matter?
You believe that the fantasy you live in (i.e. Seth’s life) is not “insufferable” because you/Seth made it so?
That because now there is awareness of it being a fantasy has been your/Seth’s choice/decision/making?

Based on the hand exercise and many more experiences, choices and decisions are illusions of story made after the fact of something happening.

You think you’re in control of what happens and how it happens?
Seriously??

Exactly. It's a thought.

Consider this:
Would it be possible to be grateful for the stuff that appears less attractive/desirable/enjoyable – if these very labels were removed from it?
As in, return to the baseline of direct/sensory experience?
Can you look into sensory experience and check whether, by any chance, the sensations are not the same for the stuff Seth likes and the stuff Seth dislikes?
Meaning it’s only the habitual labels that turn each sensation into one or the other?
Tell me what you find.

Yes. I (the story name given to sensory experience, thought and feeling (each element name an approximation of an aspect of a no-thing that has no separation)) can be grateful for any experience.
Liking and disliking is a story label that can put on anything or taken off and relabeled or left unlabeled. Pain and pleasure are the same thing with different story or thought labels.

You CANNOT know this. You may have heard or read it somewhere, that’s all. But it does not make it “knowing”.
It’s a belief – a thought story again.
Can you see this?

Yes.

There is nothing wrong with that, is there?

Only if I put that label on it. Inherently it's all no-thing.

OMG LOL LOL LOL
Didn’t you say you work in the entertainment industry?
Stories upon stories upon stories.
What else can I say to this? (rhetorical)

The story of this process of realization seems to be peeling back all the extra stories we put on no-thing and recognizing that anything beyond no-thing is story.

Is this a problem at all?
Is anything separate from LIFE?

The label "problem" is a story.
No thing is separate, no-thing is inseparable.

Doesn’t LIFE include the dog scratching and the washing machine being turned on when full?

It has in the past and in the story of predictive thought, it's likely to continue.

Or did you think once awakened you’d have superpowers at your disposal so you’ll never have to open the door for the dog or press the right button AGAIN?

Yes, I did. Now I don't.

Well, if you ask me, it is about an underlying okayness with whatever is happening because it is seen that any sort of preference relies on interpretation, and interpretation is thought-label-dependent. This does not mean, however, that no actions are taken, say, to seek medical advice for a health issue or go to work to pay the bills. Basically, life goes on.
Isn’t that magic enough?

What seems magical now in the story of discussing these topics is how action arises from nothing with no controller or decision maker. I don't have a story that can make any sense of that.

My dog is outside barking at something. There is some risk according to the stories of my predictive thoughts that she could jump over our fence and get killed by a car. (My dog's name is Story btw!)
If I am not the decision maker. I don't understand what it is that gets my body up to tell her to come in. If I am not in control in some way, how does my body move?
I just left for a moment to let her in because she scratched at the door and I felt compassion and then my body leapt up to let her in. I don't what made it move.

It seems that by recognizing the story, I am liberated from needing to participate in the story but there are many stories I may want to participate in. I don't want my dog to die for a dumb reason. What is it that gets me to protect her or seek medical advice or go to work to pay bills if not some kind of attachment(perhaps temporarily) to thought and story?

Without meaning, there is no meaning and seemingly no cause to do anything. How do I do anything unbound by thought or story?

Oh please.
Is it at all possible to be NOT here NOT now?
Where else can you be?
LOL

No. Always here, always now, even if "lost in thought".

Isn’t this “awakening” thing about removing beliefs after all?

I don't believe it is;) Letting go of grasping thoughts and fixed beliefs has been helpful.

As in, for years you believed yourself to be this limited individual called Seth, and now this belief is no longer there.
Get the point?

Yes. I get the point that there is no point to get.