Intrigued soul

[EYG]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
Up until now, I had a perspective that the only thing that was real was myself, and my thoughts, feelings, and beliefs shaped my world, which is the only one in existence. The LU approach, which may sound the complete opposite, is actually the same, depending on what one would consider self.

What are you looking for at LU?
I've been following exterior motivations, images, and beliefs for a while now, and I've reached a point where I feel that doesn't serve me. In my search for a new source of power and motivation, I'm encountering my inner self and questioning it.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect a guided conversation to challenge my beliefs, bring me to the brink of new understandings, and allow me to experience them without filtering.
I wish to understand the path and not only to be shown it.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I had multiple guides throughout the years; most served me well and supported my path to better understand myself. I've used guides from various disciplines and found all of them interesting and valuable.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
9

[Elad]

Hi Elad :)

Welcome! Below is a standard message for when I start to guide here. Assuming all it says is good with you, here is a question to start with:

In your direct experience, what does Elad/self/I refer to?

Intro message:


"Hello, my name is Elad and I would be happy to do this exploration with you, if we see that it makes sense. Please read and respond to the following points.

1. During this process we will attend only to your own direct experience. We will not be discussing theories or beliefs or other methods, including from non-duality and etc. I will ask you questions and give exercises and you will look and answer me from your direct experience.

2. The two most important ingredients in this process are your wish to see what is direct experience and your willingness to look deeply at questions, give wholehearted engagement to experiments/exercises presented to you, and report your experience here with 100% honesty.

3. Please read the following documents from LU *carefully* and let me know or ask questions if you have any reservations or doubts regarding them:


http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2

And:

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041


4. For the process to be focused and fruitful, I like to make an agreement that both guide and client (i.e you and me if we do this together) respond on this thread daily. The point is not be rigid or perfectionistic about it, rather it is a spirit of wholehearted engagement. If any of this does not fit you, please let me know and we will consider what to do.

Warmly,
Elad"

[EYG]

Hi Elad,

In my direct experience, Elad/self/I refers to an organism that exists.
I control this organism's actions, beliefs, and relations with other organisms and objects.
I currently navigate myself to places and routes that create positive feelings within me or places I believe will have a positive effect on me.

Best,

Elad

[Elad]

Hi Elad,

This is a good description of a conventional sense of self. It is based on beliefs and thoughts. It is useful for ordinary communication and thinking. Can you see that this is based on thinking and belief?

Are you open to that these beliefs might not be ultimately true (although useful fictions for ordinary communication and functioning) and that you might see that in direct experience?

Please read and respond to the following contemplation to support the process:

Coloured Socks

There is a big difference between believing that there is/is no self, that there is/is not something to give up, and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference. If I ask you what colour socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can have a think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what colour you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what colour they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of our dialogue together, it is going to be very important that you are clear about this difference. Beliefs and convictions is not direct experience, even when useful, it is all in the storytelling mind and we are not interested in that here. We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment to moment experience. We are only interested in your direct experience in the moment and what you can discover through attending to that.

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

[EYG]

Hi Elad,

Thank you for your response.

I understand the value of questioning our convictions and beliefs and am ready to do so.
However, I wonder how we can accept direct sensory experience as the ultimate truth when that experience itself is filtered through our senses. Aren't these senses just as fluid as our thoughts and beliefs?
Should we assume that the reality we perceive through our conventional senses is the only legitimate truth to be accepted?

I Would appreciate this clarification.

Best,

Elad

[Elad]

Hi Elad, awesome observation! This process will not lead to metaphysical, logical or scientific certainty about the nature of self or reality. It can lead to an experiential shift/insight where you don't GET anything, but uncosncious beliefs about what you are and what reality is are EXPERIENTIALLY seen to be just beliefs and nothing worth clinging to which opens new types of freedom and intimacy, not known before. Does this answer feel clear and sufficient?

For the next day, this exercise:

Direct Experience - Labelling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:-

Seeing a cup, simply= sight
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual/direct experience) and report back how you go.

[EYG]

Apologies for the delayed response.

I understand the answer regarding the process.

I also understand the labeling exercise and will practice it, starting now and throughout the day tomorrow. It sounds overwhelming, and I'm not sure how the reporting back is expected, but it will be interesting.

Thanks,

[Elad]

Reporting back here should always mean to say what is seen, felt, experienced, as simple and direct as possible, doing away with judgements and analysis and anything that is about "trying to understand". Bare describing as best you can.

[EYG]

Hi Elad,

I practiced today the exercise of labeling all the components involved in my daily activities. It was quite overwhelming.

I attempted to consciously notice every aspect I could perceive during some routine tasks that I usually breeze through automatically. Trying to be aware of all the different sensations, thoughts, and elements is overloading.

It made me see how rich and multi-layered our normal day-to-day experiences are. They are compiled of little "ingredients" that go into formulating our lived experiences. I understood that I tend to mask or ignore most of those details in order to conserve focus and energy.

Does this make sense?

Best,
Elad

[Elad]

Elad, lots of good observation here. A side effect of this process can be to learn more "right effort" (= right letting be), that is, the middle path between demanding/anxious effort on the one hand and negligence/not doing the exercises/contemplations on the other. Your overwhelm is probably due to a straining quality. Does that resonate?

For the next day (and this one is good to continue with whatever else is going on) try short periods of time, where you only intend one simple activity, such as walking, sitting or lying. Do it with a timer, anything between 1 minute and how long as you wish will do, but keep it easy. While the time is on, other things will happen beside the intended activity, stuff like thoughts, feelings, movements. Just let all that happen by itself, see how it happens by itself.

Write me about what is experienced.

Also, do 3 minutes where in real time you observe experience in terms of the sense gates (like yesterday) and write me about it in real time, in the format I will exemplify below. Don't try to get everything, you can't. Be playful and exploratory about it. Here is me doing it a little for an example:

listening to the AC = simply sound
feeling feet on the floor = simply sensation
feeling jeans on legs = simply sensations
seeing fingers typing = simply sight
considering if to write more examples = simply thought

[EYG]

HI Elad,

It was a challenging day to repeat one simple activity with intention. I'll practice it tomorrow.

As for the 3 minutes, they Start now!

I feel discomfort from a headphone in my ear- Sensation
I feel pain in my shoulder blades and arching my back to ease the pain- Sensation
I think that another day went by without me addressing this back pain, which prevented me from sleeping well- Thought
I hear the keyboard strike on my laptop- Sound
I enjoy the sound of the keyboard strikes-
I feel the fabric and touching point of the sofa I'm sitting on- Sensation
I see in the corner of my eye my dog moving- Sight
I'm thinking If she was taken this evening for a walk- Thought
I hear the window move due to the wind- Sound
I think of the demonstration happening outside my flat- Thought
I think of the 3-minute time frame- Thought.
I'm looking at the computer watch and see that 3 minutes have passed now :)- Sight

Thanks,

Elad

[EYG]

Hi Elad,

The activity I repeated throughout the day was sitting on my swivel office chair for 3 minutes.

I started by doing it with my eyes open but the scenery outside my window was so bustling that I figured I better close my eyes.

On one occasion I saw an interpersonal dynamic in my life and had positive thoughts on how to rise it to a new level of connection and love. On a few other occasions, I felt dizzy and the chair was turning. I started holding the table to ensure it was not the case but continued to feel the potential rotation and dizziness.
I also had thoughts regarding the challenges I face and thoughts of sounds I heard from the street.

The exercise itself was intriguing. It felt like an opportunity to pause and not be productive. To rest.

What are your thoughts on the 2 exercises?

Thanks,

Elad

[Elad]

Hi Elad, you are doing great.

Do the "simply sit/lay/walk" (or anything else simple) for more short periods. Importantly remember it is in no way your job to control or observe what happens during, in terms of thoughts, feelings, sensations, spontaneous movements. Your only "job" is to do the one activity, the rest is however its without the control or choice of a self, it's automatic spontaneous. Afterwards you write what is remembered looking back at the exercise.

Do it more more times and write me what is seen.

[EYG]

Hi Elad,

I shortened the simple task to 1:15 and set gazing through my office window.
I felt calm as I wasn't worried about "How do I use my time optimally now?".
I had thoughts on tasks/ actions I want to take, interactions I had throughout the day, and Interactions I plan on having in the coming days.

I didn't feel any special feelings or thoughts in this exercise. Any guidance?

Thanks,

Elad

[Elad]

Hi Elad, good good. We are not looking for any special feelings or states, just to pay more attention to what is actually there and what is not there in ordinary experience. Continue doing this exercise from time to time, for example when you see yourself caught up in something unhelpful, take a period of this.

Now, do this exercise:


Observing thoughts

Here is a thought exercise. Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.

Where are they coming from and going to?

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

Can you predict your next thought?

Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?

Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organized sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?