The Gate

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand by this, that the helping guidance of LU supporters is able to help others understand and deeply acknowledge the meaning and sense of seeing there is no real, inherent 'self'.

What are you looking for at LU?
At LU I'm looking for to learn a new perspective on seeing life.

Using that newly taught method of seeing life will allow me to have a more balanced approach in life, which will surely enrich my life and those, that I meet on my life's path.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect for communication between me and my guide to go smootly, with clearly stated what's meant to be stated in a given point of discussion.

I'm hopeful, that my guide will keep on having conversation with me, until I admit, that everything that a guide helps me to understand will be very clear to me.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have some experiences (not a years long) with meditation and breathwork, though not in a form of meditation retreats strictly dedicated to such practices.

I read a lot of books in the subject of spirituality, though didn't do any precise seeking and inquiry practices.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

Hi ChrisPl
(is that what you want me to call you?)

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed :)! It’s great to see you here!
My name is Rali, and I’ll be glad to be your guide if you like.

Here at LU we assist in the exploration of the idea of the separate self. This is a guiding based on experience that brings a shift in perception and is not a debate. It directly points to what IS through the use of exercises, questions and dialogue. What is expected from you is to LOOK carefully to what is being pointed at. It is this simple LOOKING (not thinking) that brings a shift in perception.

Here, we are LOOKING directly into the experience of the senses, which is actually here and now, with the thinking stripped away. It is also known as Direct Experience (DE) or Actual Experience (AE). In this way, we are aiming to discover what is truly happening without the story we tell ourselves. For this process to work you have to answer with 100% honesty, and not relying on thought, imagination or memory - just reporting your direct experience. That would also mean leaving spiritual teachings, philosophies and science away during the inquiry. If you have a meditation practice, please feel free to continue with it as usual – it might come helpful.

Please read through “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Please confirm that you have read them
http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

When replying to a question, please use the quote function to highlight the question being answered. Throughout this inquiry, please answer questions individually, not in a bundle. Please watch the below video to learn how to use the Quote function. This will assist us in having a clear dialogue around the questions and answers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fAToDNh9hQ

It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. It will save you time in the long run, if a glitch in the system wipes out your answer.

For the sake of the intensity of the inquiry let’s try to stick to a daily conversation. Of course, life happens, so if you need more time, please let me know. I will do as well.
What time zone are in?
If you're okay with everything so far, we can start.
Love
Rali

Hi ChrisPl
(is that what you want me to call you?)

My Polish is Krzysztof, but while online chatting with foreigners I rather prefer to go by Chris (shorter version of Christopher).

This way it's easier for others to refer to me, since Polish language is hard.

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed :)! It’s great to see you here!
My name is Rali, and I’ll be glad to be your guide if you like.

Thanks and nice to meet You, Rali.
It's great to have You as my guide.

For the sake of the intensity of the inquiry let’s try to stick to a daily conversation. Of course, life happens, so if you need more time, please let me know. I will do as well.

I understand, that's fine.

What time zone are in?
If you're okay with everything so far, we can start.
Love
Rali

You meant what time zone is here, if I'm not mistaken.

It's CEST (Central European Summer Time).
Yes, I'm okay with everything mentioned prior, let's start.

Much appreciated
Chris

Hi Chris

Please make sure that you are subscribed to your topic. In the top left corner, next to "Post Reply" there is an icon that looks like a spanner. When you click on it there is a menu where you can select “subscribe topic’. Click on it once. If you want to be sure that you are subscribed just refresh the page and if you click again should show now “ unsubscribe topic”. Don’t click on it as it will unsubscribe you :).

My Polish is Krzysztof, but while online chatting with foreigners I rather prefer to go by Chris (shorter version of Christopher).

Same with me . I’m Bulgarian but I’ve been living in South Africa for a really long time. I’ve given up on my full name :))

It's CEST (Central European Summer Time).

I'm GMT+2. Perfect :)

Yes, I'm okay with everything mentioned prior, let's start.

Great!

First things first, let’s get your expectations out on in the open:

1. What will be different when you realize there’s no separate self?

2. What do you expect to happen as a result of this?

3. What do you want not to happen?

4. What are you hoping for?

5. What is missing?

Love
Rali

Hi Rali 👋

Please make sure that you are subscribed to your topic. In the top left corner, next to "Post Reply" there is an icon that looks like a spanner. When you click on it there is a menu where you can select “subscribe topic’. Click on it once. If you want to be sure that you are subscribed just refresh the page and if you click again should show now “ unsubscribe topic”. Don’t click on it as it will unsubscribe you :)

Yes, it's done.

Same with me . I’m Bulgarian but I’ve been living in South Africa for a really long time. I’ve given up on my full name :))

That's interesting. What caused a move from Bułgaria to South Africa?

I'm GMT+2. Perfect :)

That's very close to Poland's, that is GMT+1, so it's only an hour of difference between our times.

1. What will be different when you realize there’s no separate self?

When i deeply realize there's no separate self, then there might come some changes into how I perceive and deal with situations in life.

2. What do you expect to happen as a result of this?/quote]

I'm not sure what to expect to happen as a result of this. I suppose experience will show how it'll go.

3. What do you want not to happen?

I don't think I have any expectations about on what should not happen. I'm open for new experiences.

4. What are you hoping for?

Would hope for paradigm shift to happen.
For a deep and permanent change in mental perspective to come and settle.

5. What is missing?

I'm not sure what this question is referring to, so I don't know how to answer it.

Love
Chris

Hi Chris

That's interesting. What caused a move from Bulgaria to South Africa?

Life :). My husband’s parents lived here at that time…

Thank you for your honesty! It can be challenging to become aware of what we really believe. The questions were a means to seeing what expectations you have, as everyone has some “idea” about awakening. There is so much information out there now with so many people sharing their experiences, and “teachers” preaching how it supposed to look and feel, that to have no expectations is almost impossible.

Your expectations are somewhat reasonable, but ultimately, expectations are a hindrance. They cling to an idea of how it is supposed to go, which is not necessarily correct, and this is why I asked you to read the FAQ’s of what Liberation Unleashed is NOT. When realisation happens, it can be very subtle and if there are expectations of any kind, then it can be missed and the guiding becomes very difficult. I can promise you there will be no fireworks; it is just a subtle shift in perception! The only true expectation, that you can have, is that the seeking will end. If there are any other expectations, it's good to acknowledge them and then set them aside. It is all much simpler and ordinary. Is that OK with you?

Now… If you look for the I, what is there? If I say there’s no doer, thinker, experiencer, decision maker, or a witness, what comes up? Where exactly did you look? What exactly did you find? Please describe in detail what appears – feelings, sensations, thoughts, anything?
Love
Rali

When realisation happens, it can be very subtle and if there are expectations of any kind, then it can be missed and the guiding becomes very difficult. I can promise you there will be no fireworks; it is just a subtle shift in perception! The only true expectation, that you can have, is that the seeking will end. If there are any other expectations, it's good to acknowledge them and then set them aside. It is all much simpler and ordinary

When it comes to realisation, then yes, it can be anything really I suppose, whatever it be subtle or very noticeable. Though whatever it may come out of it, I won't let any possible expectations to cloud and effect the process of getting/being guided, so please rest assure about that 😇

Is that OK with you?

Yes, perfectly ok.

If you look for the I, what is there? If I say there’s no doer, thinker, experiencer, decision maker, or a witness, what comes up? Where exactly did you look? What exactly did you find? Please describe in detail what appears – feelings, sensations, thoughts, anything?

If You exclude doer, thinker, experiencer, decision maker or a witness, then what comes or rather what's left is the thoughts, that suggest that there is doer, thinker, experiencer, decision maker or a witness, because all of the possible type of experiences (doing, thinking, decision making, witnessing) are happening, so the thoughts suggest, that there has to be something/someone behind this, that causes these experiences.

Therefore the point of looking would be mind, that seems to produce the thoughts about life.

What I found? I found, that I could consider a possibility that tracking the true force, that stands behind all the experiences is either impossible to do, or doable, but with using some unconventional method.
Though besides that I don't really know what else could there be.



Love
Chris

Hi Chris
Thank you for your reply. It gives me an idea where to begin.
Before we start let’s just make sure that you understand how to LOOK for no self in the exercises:
Looking is a matter of noticing what is already here, not inventing or imagining something.
Looking is finding out what is true in experience. It is a nonverbal action of focusing attention on a target. Thinking is verbal—it is naming experience. Both work together as one mechanism. If you can’t see for yourself, you cannot describe it in your own words (but you can attempt to describe it using someone else’s words, from memory).

So, there is a BIG difference between knowing that there is nothing and seeing that there is nothing.
Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what colour socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to answer:
1. You can think about it, trying to remember, or guessing what colour they are.
2. You can have a look at your socks and see what colour they ACTUALLY are!
You will agree that only by looking you could be 100% certain, right?

For the purpose of this inquiry, it is crucial that you are clear about this difference in the two ways of answering and stick only to the second way. We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on. We are only interested in Direct (Actual) Experience (DE/AE)- the experience right now and right here.

Direct or Actual Experience is:

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (not emotion - emotion is sensation plus thoughts/labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content, what the thought is ABOUT)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.
Here's an exercise for you to get super clear on what direct experience is. You can use this photo of an apple or a real apple.



Have a look at an apple (real or the picture, or any other fruit or object). When ‘looking at an apple’, there's colour, a thought saying ‘apple,' and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple." What about the content of thoughts, what they describe? While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT cannot be found in direct or actual experience. Direct, actual experience is sound, thought, colour(sight), smell, taste and sensation.

Taste labelled ‘apple’ is known
Colour (visual information) labelled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labelled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labelled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known
However, is 'an apple' actually known? (Or is it just a label?) Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’? Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

Love
Rali

Hi Rali 👋

If I ask you what colour socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to answer:
1. You can think about it, trying to remember, or guessing what colour they are.
2. You can have a look at your socks and see what colour they ACTUALLY are!
You will agree that only by looking you could be 100% certain, right?

Yes, only by actually checking by looking at them and seeing what is their colour I can be 100% certain.

Feeling (not emotion - emotion is sensation plus thoughts/labels)

I would consider feeling as anything that's being noticed in the body, but all of these things are not named and are neutral in nature, while emotions are feelings but named and categorized as good/bad or pleasent/unpleasant.

Thoughts Arising (but not their content, what the thought is ABOUT)

Thoughts arising as the mare fact of them being noticed?

In other words it's simply seeing that some informations are perceived to be present in the mind/brain, right?

However, is 'an apple' actually known? (Or is it just a label?) Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’? Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

I would say, that 'an apple' is simply a name given/labeled, so such object could be categorized among other objects.

As we can only observe it and interact with it we don't really know what it actually is, unless we are somehow convinced, that 'an apple' object considered as it should be for certain labeled as 'an apple'.


Love
Chris

Hi Chris

I would consider feeling as anything that's being noticed in the body, but all of these things are not named and are neutral in nature, while emotions are feelings but named and categorized as good/bad or pleasent/unpleasant.

Yes!

Thoughts arising as the mare fact of them being noticed?

In other words it's simply seeing that some informations are perceived to be present in the mind/brain, right?

That’s just observing thoughts as just present but not paying attention on their content while looking. We'll have to see about "mind" and "brain" though...

I would say, that 'an apple' is simply a name given/labelled, so such object could be categorized among other objects.

As we can only observe it and interact with it we don't really know what it actually is, unless we are somehow convinced, that 'an apple' object considered as it should be for certain labelled as 'an apple'.

Yes, “apple” is a thought/label that points to sensations, taste, smell, and colour, but there is no an actual apple as an “object”. “Object” is another general label/thought that points to just hearing (sound), seeing (colour), feeling (sensation), smelling (smell), and tasting (taste). Clear?

How is it known that there is an “it” (e.g. object) existing at all, when all you have is your experiences – feeling, seeing, hearing, smelling, and tasting? Are “objects” really experienced or assumed from the experience of the senses?

Just to ensure that you are crystal clear about DE and labels related to it...here's an exercise that you can try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities, objects and emotions simply as colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought as per the apple example.
For example, when having coffee in the morning, become aware of:
Seeing a cup, simply= colour (seeing)
Smelling coffee, simply = smell (smelling)
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation (feeling)
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste (tasting)
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound (hearing)
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought (thinking)

Break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists EXACTLY like the one above. Please write a few examples from your daily life.
Love
Rali

Hi Rali 👋

Yes, “apple” is a thought/label that points to sensations, taste, smell, and colour, but there is no an actual apple as an “object”. “Object” is another general label/thought that points to just hearing (sound), seeing (colour), feeling (sensation), smelling (smell), and tasting (taste). Clear?

Yes 👍

How is it known that there is an “it” (e.g. object) existing at all, when all you have is your experiences – feeling, seeing, hearing, smelling, and tasting? Are “objects” really experienced or assumed from the experience of the senses?

As witnessing there's something of given colour, shape, texture and possibly even smell and taste.
From direct experience point of view nothing else is really known about it.

Just to ensure that you are crystal clear about DE and labels related to it...here's an exercise that you can try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities, objects and emotions simply as colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought as per the apple example.
For example, when having coffee in the morning, become aware of:
Seeing a cup, simply= colour (seeing)
Smelling coffee, simply = smell (smelling)
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation (feeling)
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste (tasting)
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound (hearing)
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought (thinking)


Break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists EXACTLY like the one above. Please write a few examples from your daily life.

When operating laptop:

Thinking about "turning on" a laptop, simply = thought (thinking)
Turning on a laptop, simply = touch (sensation), colour/shape (seeing)
Thinking about what to do on a laptop, simply = thought (thinking)
Controlling/navigating laptop via touchpad, simply = touch (sensation), colour/shape (seeing)

When preparing breakfast in a blender:

Slicing ingredients with a knife, simply = touch (sensation), colour/shape (seeing), sound of slicing (hearing)
Cutting out unnecessary parts from fruits, simply= touch (sensation), colour/shape (seeing), sound of cutting (hearing)
Puttin ingredients into a blender, simply = touch (sensation), colour/shape (seeing), sound of ingredients being dropped into a blender (hearing)
Blendering ingredients, simply= touch (sensation), colour/shape (seeing), sound of ingredients being blendered (hearing)

When reading a book:

Picking up a book, simply = touch (sensation), colour/shape (seeing), sound of a book being picked up (hearing)
Opening up a book, simply = touch (sensation), colour/shape (seeing), sound of a book being opened up (hearing), smell (smelling)
Process of reading, simply = touch (sensation), colour/shape (seeing), sound of a book being opened up (hearing), smell (smelling)

When brushing teeth:

Picking up a toothbrush, simply = touch (sensation), colour/shape (seeing), sound of a toothbrush being picked up (hearing)
Picking up and pouring of toothpaste onto a toothbrush, simply = touch (sensation), colour/shape (seeing), sound of a toothpaste being being poured on a toothbrush (hearing)
Brushing teeth with a toothbrush, simply = touch (sensation), colour/shape (seeing), sound of a toothbrush brushing against teeth (hearing), taste of a toothpaste on a tongue (tasting)

When riding a bicycle:

Picking up a bicycle, simply = touch (sensation), colour/shape (seeing), sound of wheels turning (hearing)
Getting on a bicycle and riding it, simply = touch (sensation), colour/shape (seeing), sound of wheels turning (hearing)

When operating machinery at work:

Putting battery in into a remote control pilot, simply = touch (sensation), colour/shape (seeing), sound of a battery getting put into a remote control pilot (hearing)
Pushing and holding a button to make remote control pilot to start working, simply = touch (sensation), colour/shape (seeing), sound of a remote control pilot getting turned on (hearing)
Controlling machinery by using remote control pilot, simply = touch (sensation), colour/shape (seeing), sound of a machinery moving (hearing)


Also on top of all of these experiences happens witnessing of all those experiences.


Love
Chris

Hi Chris

Slicing ingredients with a knife, simply = touch (sensation), colour/shape (seeing), sound of slicing (hearing)
…
Putting battery in into a remote control pilot, simply = touch (sensation), colour/shape (seeing), sound of a battery getting put into a remote control pilot (hearing)
…
Process of reading, simply = touch (sensation), colour/shape (seeing), sound of a book being opened up (hearing), smell (smelling)

There is still too much story in your DE description
These should have been described as follows:
In general
Thought content about what is happening, simply = just seeing, hearing, smelling, feeling, tasting or/and thinking (no story)

Your example
Putting battery in into a remote control pilot, simply = feeling (sensation), seeing (colour)
Hearing the battery getting put into a remote control pilot, simply = hearing (sound)

How is shape different than colour (you made into a separate thing in DE)?
Seeing is like a lava lamp. The wax may seem to change shape, and the shapes it seems to take may seem to be present one moment, and absent the next. But all that is known is the wax (i.e. colour/seeing).
Also what is touch in DE and how is it different from feeling/sensations?

… sound of ingredients being dropped into a blender (hearing)

OK…Sit quietly again and listen to the sound for a minute of two and as you listen, I would like for you to answer the following questions by looking at what you direct actual experience is and not with an intellectual answer.

Without thought, how is it known that the sound heard is the 'ingredients being dropped into a blender'?
Does the sound itself suggest in any way that it is “ingredients being dropped into a blender”, or is it thought that suggests it?
What is the actual experience (AE) of hearing ‘birds chirping’? Is it AE of smell, taste, sensation, sound, colour or thought?

Please give me a couple more examples written EXACTLY as in the cup of coffee example, just to make sure that you get it.

Also on top of all of these experiences happens witnessing of all those experiences.

We’ll look at this witnessing/witness once I know that you know how to look
Love
Rali

Hi Rali 👋

There is still too much story in your DE description
These should have been described as follows:
In general
Thought content about what is happening, simply = just seeing, hearing, smelling, feeling, tasting or/and thinking (no story)

Your example
Putting battery in into a remote control pilot, simply = feeling (sensation), seeing (colour)
Hearing the battery getting put into a remote control pilot, simply = hearing (sound)

You may think so that there's too much story in there, but I kindly disagree.

Now when I look at it though the phrasing in battery example could be different, could be:

battery being put in into a remote control pilot

How is shape different than colour (you made into a separate thing in DE)?

It can be seperate, but not necessarily so, because both shape and colour is seeing, and since both is the same attribute of seeing, that's why I used "/", I could as well use "&" instead for shape and colour.

Seeing is like a lava lamp. The wax may seem to change shape, and the shapes it seems to take may seem to be present one moment, and absent the next. But all that is known is the wax (i.e. colour/seeing)

Yes, and there will be only one type of shape in the exact moment that seeing happens.

Also what is touch in DE and how is it different from feeling/sensations?

It's precisely that - feeling/sensation, so it's not different in any way than feeling/sensation.

Without thought, how is it known that the sound heard is the 'ingredients being dropped into a blender'?
Does the sound itself suggest in any way that it is “ingredients being dropped into a blender”, or is it thought that suggests it?
What is the actual experience (AE) of hearing ‘birds chirping’? Is it AE of smell, taste, sensation, sound, colour or thought?

Something is heard, due to hearing, so thought is unnecessary for hearing to be witnessed/noticed.

Sound itself don't suggest what's being dropped, and it's possible to suggest what's being dropped only by labeling the object that's being dropped, thought is used for that labeling.

AE of birds chirping chirping part is sound (hearing), though if we don't use thought, then we won't know if it's a bird and not something else.

We’ll look at this witnessing/witness once I know that you know how to look

Looking forward to it 😌

Please give me a couple more examples written EXACTLY as in the cup of coffee example, just to make sure that you get it.

When having hot chocolate in the evening:

Seeing a cup, simply = colour (seeing)
Smelling hot chocolate, simply = smell (smelling)
Feeling the warmth of the hot chocolate cup, simply = sensation (feeling)
Tasting the hot chocolate, simply = taste (tasting)
Hearing the spoon stirring the hot chocolate, simply = sound (hearing)
Thought about drinking the hot chocolate, simply = thought (thinking)

When having shoes being put on a feet:

Seeing feet and shoes, simply = colour (seeing)
Hearing and feeling the feet inserting into the shoes, simply = sound (hearing), touch (feeling/sensation)


Love
Chris

Hey Chris

Seeing a cup, simply = colour (seeing)
Smelling hot chocolate, simply = smell (smelling)
Feeling the warmth of the hot chocolate cup, simply = sensation (feeling)
Tasting the hot chocolate, simply = taste (tasting)
Hearing the spoon stirring the hot chocolate, simply = sound (hearing)
Thought about drinking the hot chocolate, simply = thought (thinking)

Thank you for doing such wonderful looking! :) It is now to incorporate that looking into your everyday….make it a habit. Please include one example with all your replies!

How does it feel to see what actually is?

AE of birds chirping chirping part is sound (hearing), though if we don't use thought, then we won't know if it's a bird and not something else.

Let’s say you can see and hear a bird chirping. You can try this with any other sound that you are experiencing at the moment.
Can what makes the sound be found in DE (e.g. “bird” ”)? How is it known that the bird (colour/seeing) makes the sound or is it an assumption? Can hearing see or seeing hear? In DE there are just seeing and hearing, and thinking provides the label "bird". Can an actual "bird" or "something else" be found in DE?
Which one of the following describes best DE:
1. I am hearing sound
2. hearing sound
3. hearing

How is shape different than colour (you made into a separate thing in DE)?

It can be seperate, but not necessarily so, because both shape and colour is seeing, and since both is the same attribute of seeing, that's why I used "/", I could as well use "&" instead for shape and colour.

Also on top of all of these experiences happens witnessing of all those experiences.

Which one of the following describes best DE:
1. I am seeing colour
2. seeing colour
3. seeing

Look at your screen right now.
When seeing it, is there any division between seeing, seer/witness, and the seen?
Are these three separate?
If yes, could you find the boundary between the three? Not an imagined, conceptual boundary, but an actual boundary that can be perceived with one or more of the senses.

With eyes open, a world of objects appears . . . a room . . . a computer screen etc.
What you can specifically see isn't of interest here, and whatever it is, I am simply going to refer to it as 'what can be seen'.
1) With eyes open, can you confirm that what is experienced is 'what can be seen' as I mentioned?
2) Is there anything else in 'seeing' other than 'what can be seen'? Is "what is seen" outside of "seeing"?
3) Can what is witnessing 'what can be seen' be found?
4) Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me'/Chris/any other entity be found that is seeing/witnessing 'what can be seen'? How is witnessing different from seeing?
What do you find?
Can an INHERENT SEE-ER be found? Or there is just seeing?
Would anything that is suggested as the see-er/witness, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

You can apply this exercise to hearing and the other senses

Love
Rali

Hi Rali 👋

I don't understand what this means.Care to explain in more details?

How does it feel to see what actually is?

It feels natural, after all it's all there really is that can be directly experienced.

Can what makes the sound be found in DE (e.g. “bird” ”)?

No, because it's not a part of a direct experience.

How is it known that the bird (colour/seeing) makes the sound or is it an assumption?

It's definitely an assumption, because it's not a part of a direct experience.

Can hearing see or seeing hear?

No, because hearing is hearing and seeing is seeing, one does not acquire properties/characteristics of the other.

Can an actual "bird" or "something else" be found in DE?
Which one of the following describes best DE:
1. I am hearing sound
2. hearing sound
3. hearing

There's no such thing as "bird" or "something else", because those are simply labels provided by thoughts.


3. hearing, because it's a direct experience.


#1 would assume there's a receiver of direct experience (hearing) and also labeling (supplied by thoughts), while both assuming receiver and labeling (thought) is not a part of a direct experience.


#2 includes labeling (thought), which is not a direct experience.

Which one of the following describes best DE:
1. I am seeing colour
2. seeing colour
3. seeing

3. Seeing, the reason explained as above 😇

When seeing it, is there any division between seeing, seer/witness, and the seen?
Are these three separate?
If yes, could you find the boundary between the three?

This seems tricky because I'm not sure what would be the difference between seeing and witnessing, where would difference between one and the other stand 🧐🤔


Could You explain the difference between these two to me?


Are these 3 separate or not?

Not sure about seeing and seen.
I'm not sure what to think about it 🤔 🧐
If it would be considered as not separate, than it would imply that it's the same point of reference, which doesn't really seem that it is the case.

1) With eyes open, can you confirm that what is experienced is 'what can be seen' as I mentioned?

Yes, confirmed.

2) Is there anything else in 'seeing' other than 'what can be seen'? Is "what is seen" outside of "seeing"?

There's nothing else besides"what can be seen" then, "what is seen" is the result of seeing, without seeing there's no "what is seen", so they are connected with each other.

3) Can what is witnessing 'what can be seen' be found?

Unless witnessing is synonym of seeing, then there can't witnessing "what can be seen" found.


As mentioned prior I don't know what's the difference between seeing and witnessing.


If You could elaborate on that, that would be greatly appreciated 🙏



Love
Chris