The Gate

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I have enquired and cannot find a separate self or entity here .

What are you looking for at LU?
I'd like to become a guide
I am interested in truth and what is real
I have seen for very long time that I am being lived rather than I am living this life.
I have had my fair share of struggle and pain but less these days. For long time I didn't accept that what I am is already awake .

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
A reflection on what is here
Not expecting anything
I enjoy conversation with like minded beings and would like to give ..
I think I need a guide first before I can be one .
Also love talking about this.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I know what seeking feels like
I enquire regularly

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

Hi Maiam
(is that what you want me to call you?)

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed :)! It’s great to see you here!
My name is Rali, and I’ll be glad to be your guide if you like.

Here at LU we assist in the exploration of the idea of the separate self. This is a guiding based on experience that brings a shift in perception and is not a debate. It directly points to what IS through the use of exercises, questions and dialogue. What is expected from you is to LOOK carefully to what is being pointed at. It is this simple LOOKING (not thinking) that brings a shift in perception.

Here, we are LOOKING directly into the experience of the senses, which is actually here and now, with the thinking stripped away. It is also known as Direct Experience (DE) or Actual Experience (AE). In this way, we are aiming to discover what is truly happening without the story we tell ourselves. For this process to work you have to answer with 100% honesty, and not relying on thought, imagination or memory - just reporting your direct experience. That would also mean leaving spiritual teachings, philosophies and science away during the inquiry. If you have a meditation practice, please feel free to continue with it as usual – it might come helpful.

Please read through “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Please confirm that you have read them
http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

When replying to a question, please use the quote function to highlight the question being answered. Throughout this inquiry, please answer questions individually, not in a bundle. Please watch the below video to learn how to use the Quote function. This will assist us in having a clear dialogue around the questions and answers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fAToDNh9hQ

It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. It will save you time in the long run, if a glitch in the system wipes out your answer.

For the sake of the intensity of the inquiry let’s try to stick to a daily conversation. Of course, life happens, so if you need more time, please let me know. I will do as well.
What time zone are in?
If you're okay with everything so far, we can start.
Love
Rali

Hi Ralli( hope I got this right as can't see the message )
My name is Mairead . You can call me Mairead or Mai
I am happy to communicate
Ask me what you like 👍

Mai

Hi Rali

I am living in Ireland, GMT .
Where are you based ?
M

Hi Mai

Please make sure that you are subscribed to your topic. In the top left corner, next to "Post Reply" there is an icon that looks like a spanner. When you click on it there is a menu where you can select “subscribe topic’. Click on it once. If you want to be sure that you are subscribed just refresh the page and if you click again should show now “ unsubscribe topic”. Don’t click on it as it will unsubscribe you :).

I am living in Ireland, GMT .

I'm GMT+2 (South Africa). Perfect :)

I am happy to communicate

Great!

First things first, let’s get your expectations out on in the open:

1. What will be different when you realize there’s no separate self?

2. What do you expect to happen as a result of this?

3. What do you want not to happen?

4. What are you hoping for?

5. What is missing?

Love
Rali

1. What will be different when you realize there’s no separate self?

When I read this question my initial thought was I already know there is no separate self and a small contraction at same time. I immediately asked myself do I really know anything ?
The mind says it knows but do I know, What will be different is the question , I don’t expect any(Thing) to be different . Perhaps as this deepens I imagine my view of reality will alter as
there are less limitations.

2What do you expect to happen as a result of this? I expect nothing to happen ?

What do you want to happen ?

This depends on what this question is asked to , the mind will always love to experience bells and whistles , more peace more Love, but I already know that what I am doesn’t expect a thing to happen


What are you hoping for?

There are hopes here as human being but do not hope they will manifest as a result of realisation.
As infinite and everywhere nothing is impossible for the true Self , its only beliefs and a limited view of reality that stops seeing things in an expanded way from this persepective.
So I suppose seeing things in an ever unfolding unlimited way might be an answer and seeing that refected in this body/mind.

What is missing?

There is a sense of aloneness which can feel like lonliness at times. Which might transcribe into Love being absent at times. Love cannot be described but it is known and recognised.

Dear Rali

Thank you for the questions .

Having answered the questions they stayed with me and are helping get clearer
That would be something Id like , an even clearer clarity on what I?this is !!!

Mairead

Hi Mai
When replying to a question, please use the quote function to highlight the question being answered. Please watch the below video to learn how to use the Quote function. This will assist us in having a clear dialogue around the questions and answers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fAToDNh9hQ

Thank you for your honesty! It can be challenging to become aware of what we really believe. The questions were a means to seeing what expectations you have, as everyone has some “idea” about awakening. There is so much information out there now with so many people sharing their experiences, and “teachers” preaching how it supposed to look and feel, that to have no expectations is almost impossible.

Your expectations are somewhat reasonable, but ultimately, expectations are a hindrance. They cling to an idea of how it is supposed to go, which is not necessarily correct, and this is why I asked you to read the FAQ’s of what Liberation Unleashed is NOT. When realisation happens, it can be very subtle and if there are expectations of any kind, then it can be missed and the guiding becomes very difficult. I can promise you there will be no fireworks; it is just a subtle shift in perception! The only true expectation, that you can have, is that the seeking will end. If there are any other expectations, it's good to acknowledge them and then set them aside. It is all much simpler and ordinary. Is that OK with you?

I think you misread the 3rd question:

3. What do you want not to happen?

Please answer this

Now… If you look for the I, what is there? If I say there’s no doer, thinker, experiencer, decision maker, or a witness, what comes up? Where exactly did you look? What exactly did you find? Please describe in detail what appears – feelings, sensations, thoughts, anything?
Love
Rali

Hi Rali

Thanks for the responses
Yes I missed this one .

What do you want not to happen?

Nothing right now

If you look for the I, what is there? If I say there’s no doer, thinker, experiencer, decision maker, or a witness, what comes up? Where exactly did you look? What exactly did you find? Please describe in detail what appears – feelings, sensations, thoughts, anything?

I look for the I , I hear the word I. Who or what is listening to this ?
I look around the word , put my attention to what is being heard , the word I appears in my consciousness and then disappears. Who is the I that says ‘ my consciousness ‘? There is listening but I cannot find anyone or anything..
As I look for an I , I feel some sensations in the body around the solar plexus there is a noticing of space around the sensation and the thought where am I.
My attention goes to my head/ crown area as I say I , still a sense of spaciousness.
My eyes move upwards as I search for the I .
More sensations to the back of the throat.
A fleeting feeling of sadness
Silence is loud , there is a noticing of all this and a looking for the One that seems to be aware of it all
Nothing is found.
Only Silence.....

Looking forward to the next post
Mai

Hi Mai

Thank you for your reply. It gives me an idea where to begin.
Before we start let’s just make sure that you understand how to LOOK for no self in the exercises:
Looking is a matter of noticing what is already here, not inventing or imagining something.
Looking is finding out what is true in experience. It is a nonverbal action of focusing attention on a target. Thinking is verbal—it is naming experience. Both work together as one mechanism. If you can’t see for yourself, you cannot describe it in your own words (but you can attempt to describe it using someone else’s words, from memory).

So, there is a BIG difference between knowing that there is nothing and seeing that there is nothing.
Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what colour socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to answer:
1. You can think about it, trying to remember, or guessing what colour they are.
2. You can have a look at your socks and see what colour they ACTUALLY are!
You will agree that only by looking you could be 100% certain, right?

For the purpose of this inquiry, it is crucial that you are clear about this difference in the two ways of answering and stick only to the second way. We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on. We are only interested in Direct (Actual) Experience (DE/AE)- the experience right now and right here.

Direct or Actual Experience is:

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (not emotion - emotion is sensation plus thoughts/labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content, what the thought is ABOUT)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.
Here's an exercise for you to get super clear on what direct experience is. You can use this photo of an apple or a real apple.



Have a look at an apple (real or the picture, or any other fruit or object). When ‘looking at an apple’, there's colour, a thought saying ‘apple,' and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple." What about the content of thoughts, what they describe? While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT cannot be found in direct or actual experience. Direct, actual experience is sound, thought, colour(sight), smell, taste and sensation.

Taste labelled ‘apple’ is known
Colour (visual information) labelled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labelled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labelled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known
However, is 'an apple' actually known? (Or is it just a label?) Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’? Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

Love
Rali

Rali

However, is 'an apple' actually known? (Or is it just a label?) Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’? Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

Apple is a word , used to describe a fruit but it is not the actual item sitting in front of me
It is a word which I have given meaning to.
Assuming there is what I’m labelling an Apple sitting here , what is my experience of it ?
I can feel it , its cold and round with bumps on it . It has a scent which if I rely on memory to tell me about it |I miss the experience of this particular item
How do I know it is an apple ? If I don’t use memory all I can say about it is something is appearing which has a taste smell shape and is visible to the senses.
The only reason I can say its an apple is when I use my thoughts or memories and that is not direct experience.

Direct or Actual Experience is:

[/quote
]Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (not emotion - emotion is sensation plus thoughts/labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content, what the thought is ABOUT)

Yes Clear .

Mai

Hi Mai

Apple is a word , used to describe a fruit but it is not the actual item sitting in front of me
It is a word which I have given meaning to.
Assuming there is what I’m labelling an Apple sitting here , what is my experience of it ?
I can feel it , its cold and round with bumps on it . It has a scent which if I rely on memory to tell me about it |I miss the experience of this particular item
How do I know it is an apple ? If I don’t use memory all I can say about it is something is appearing which has a taste smell shape and is visible to the senses.
The only reason I can say its an apple is when I use my thoughts or memories and that is not direct experience.

“Apple” is unknown because it doesn’t exist. Everything that thoughts labels as an apple exists as sound, smell, taste, colour, sensation and thoughts about an apple …but can an apple actually be found IN/AS sound, smell, taste, colour, sensation and thought?

“Apple” is a thought/label that points to sensations, taste, smell, and colour, but there is no an actual apple as an “object”/”fruit”/”it”. “Object” is another general label/thought that points to just hearing (sound), seeing (colour), feeling (sensation), smelling (smell), and tasting (taste). Clear?
How is it known that there is an “it”, when all you have is your experiences – feeling, seeing, hearing, smelling, and tasting? Are “objects” really experienced or assumed from the experience of the senses?

Just to ensure that you are crystal clear about DE and labels related to it...here's an exercise that you can try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities, objects and emotions simply as colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought as per the apple example.
For example, when having coffee in the morning, become aware of:
Seeing a cup, simply= colour (seeing)
Smelling coffee, simply = smell (smelling)
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation (feeling)
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste (tasting)
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound (hearing)
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought (thinking)

Break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists EXACTLY like the one above. Please write a few examples from your daily life.
Love
Rali

Hi Rali

Break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists EXACTLY like the one above. Please write a few examples from your daily life.

Just to ensure that you are crystal clear about DE and labels related to it...here's an exercise that you can try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities, objects and emotions simply as colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought as per the apple example.


Cat
seeing in Colour
touching soft warm feeling
Hearing noise from it
Seeing movement
Thinking is here
Feeling
Smelling

Shoe
Seeing shape contours and colours and opening
Feeling on touch
Feeling also against the body
Smell of it
Thoughts arising

Yes am clear on this exercise , have spent last three half years being curious about this sort of stuff , with a teacher.

Enjoying your approach.

Mai

Hi Rali

Morning to you
I wrote pretty late last night, Am here before i head to work drinking mug of tea.
My experience of this
Lifting/moving
sensation ( heat )
Sensation ( mug ) then Sensation ( mug and tea )
Seeing ( colour , liquid )
Thinking
Tasting

Writing here also . So direct experience is just this experiencing. ,It says nothing about' tea'. It doesnt exist only the thoughts that give meaning and create the concept of a me drinking tea.
Approaching every moment in this way is new and fresh , as there has never been experiencing just like this before.

Sunny day here today.
Mai

Hi Mai
I’m afraid you didn’t get the point of the exercise. This is why I said report back with lists EXACTLY like the cup of coffee example.
The point is to make a distinction of what is a story (how we were used to seeing the “world”) and what is a DE (the “new” way)
These should have been described as follows:
In general
Thought content/description about what is happening, simply = just seeing, hearing, smelling, feeling, tasting or/and thinking (no story, just DE labels)

Your example
My Cat
Seeing the cat walking towards me, simply = seeing (colour)
Touching her soft fur, simply = feeling (sensation)
Hearing her purring, simply = hearing (sound)
Thinking how much I love her, simply = thinking (thought)

Please try again with a few more examples. Please, I want reports of real events, not thought exercises

Love
Rali