I feel so close, please help me to Really See!

[ShamanKip]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I have been reading about non duality, religion, New Age consciousness, Oneness, the 'Perennial Philosophy, the Universal Mind etc for so many years now. I 'get it' intellectually, I have moments of almost seeing, something reveals itself, and then disappears. My heart is crying out for me to Actually See the truth, it's all I want now.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking for someone/some people to help me to wake up once and for all. I understand that it won't transform everything in my life etc. But this sense of separation, and of getting trapped in ideas and moralising/philosophising is driving me mad. I know that I'm trying to find truth 'out there', in all the wrong places, I just want to stop this sense of getting life 'wrong'. It's like I can't quite make the final leap but I'm totally being led to that point and need help to bring me through the gate or whatever. I am strongly led to this approach as I know I need to get to the root and really feel it, and KNOW it rather than believing it. I just want to KNOW. And it would be great to be guided by others who know what I'm actually talking about because no one in my life knows what the hell I'm on about.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I'm expecting someone to ask me specific questions to help me to see the truth. I'm hoping they will brutalise my mind, in the loveliest possible way! I am ready for someone to really shake me out of the illusions that are keeping me locked in the suffering of separation.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have bought and read lots of books about non duality, mysticism, and read books of all types where the oneness of life, 'Christ Consciousness' etc is discussed. I'll be honest, some modern expressions of non duality make me feel really exasperated and despairing, and so I have recently been focusing on the more heart-centred approaches to awakening found in Sufism, Christianity etc. But I'm aware that my mind probably didn't want to hear the more direct stuff because it found it threatening! I have been to Oneness retreats, satsangs etc but not so much recently. I am kind of doing self inquiry during the day but it often leaves me feeling cold and despairing.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

[Anastacia42]

Good morning, (here in Colorado)

Let's see if we can get this done. First, some information & guidelines.

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

One thing I want to make very clear up front is that with me, it helps to post every day.


Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

Loving,

[ShamanKip]

Hi Stacy

Thank you! I have read all the guidelines etc.

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

You can call me Gemma. I live in England, so GMT.

How will life change?

I don't expect to not experience challenges and difficulties. What I hope for is the shift in perception which shows the truth of experience so that the tension of separation is no longer there. I can therefore feel the whole spectrum of emotions fully without that sense of heaviness that comes with my current experience of being the 'person' who is making my life and thoughts happen.

How will you change?

I don't know. I guess I will be able to see life more as it actually is, and that I will be more accepting of things as they are rather than arguing with reality all the time, trying to navigate and control it. Also, I feel like I am constantly having to construct a self when communicating with others, I feel like I'm performing, playing a game all the time. It causes a lot of tension in my body and is so forced that I end up saying weird things and just wanting to never talk with people because it's such an effort. Particularly hard as I do not have mainstream views or interests. I feel like I'm 'playing' at being Gemma, but it is in no way fun or authentic. There are people who I can communicate much more naturally with but they are rare!

What will be different?

These questions are all starting to sound the same to me - no offence! Maybe I will feel more 'close' to life, rather than at a distance. The tension that comes from trying to figure everything out all the time may disappear. That is a big thing for me. I am ALWAYS trying to get to the truth of things, it's completely exhausting. Maybe that drive to arrive at some kind of neat conclusion about the 'Truth of Reality' will fall away.

What is missing?

The massive thing that is missing from my experience of life is the sense I had as a child that things were all just kind of magically unfolding in front of me, and that I could somehow trust it. That things were exactly as they were meant to be, even if they weren't pleasant. Also, that experience of being fully present with what is, and the fullness and completeness of the moment - all missing.

With love,

Gemma

[Anastacia42]

Great. We just checking expectations from slightly different angles. Your expectations are pretty reasonable.


Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.


Loving

[ShamanKip]

Thanks Stacy.

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.

There is both a sense of excitement, a knowing of truth, and a sense of sadness. Sadness that all of the beautiful memories of my life are not ‘real’ in the way I believe them to be. But there are also lots of horrible memories linked to ‘me’ which I would love to no longer identify with! I try and look at others to accept that they have no self which feels hard to do, especially if they are being violent/’evil’ etc. There is fear over the idea of a world of people seeing that they have no self, this being only believed though and what it would unleash. Which is just a thought in my head I know. But then I know that really seeing the truth does not lead to people suddenly not taking any responsibility for themselves.

There is fear for me, because I have a fundamental lack of trust in life. I feel giddy thinking of having nowhere to plant my feet, having nothing to identify with in case I do something mad as a result. In case I have to then experience something really painful and horrible. So there is an attempt here to avoid potential pain (even though I’m currently experiencing pain anyway). When the sense of a separate self seems to start falling away, I feel butterflies in my tummy, like on the morning of an important exam, and a contraction there too. Always in that part of the body. A rising panic in the body. Then also - if it’s all just a thought, what’s the point? Why keep it going? Fear also that once the truth is fully seen, I will no longer be able to keep the show on the road as I currently do, and that this will make the people around me suffer. The people I love. So this separate sense of self ultimately still believes that it’s doing its life. And therefore that others are too.

Another feeling that comes up when I read your question - a sense of betrayal. Why is it like this? Why has the sense of a separate self developed for pretty much everyone on the planet? It’s weird and upsetting for me, and makes me feel very distant from others. Also, I observe people who are so completely convinced by themselves as being separate people that they will probably never try to see the truth. Why am I on this path and not them? What am I even talking about though, if there are no separate people?? As you can see, my mind wants to understand EVERYTHING, which is quite a hindrance.

With love

Gemma

[Anastacia42]

Good morning Gemma (here in Colorado),

First you are not going to become some drooling idiot just because you see to yourself. There's no self now, so it isn't as different as you think.

Thinking, or more accurately, *believing* thinking will certainly get in the way. This is about experiencing.

So yes, that question checks for fears. Believing fears and expectations are really the only 2 things that can get in your way.

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:



Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing

Hearing

Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)

Tasting

Smelling

Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.


Loving,


Loving,

[ShamanKip]

Hi Stacy

Thanks for your email.

I understand what you are saying. By 'knowing', I don't mean on an intellectual level. I understand that knowledge is not what is needed here. But beyond the 5 senses I experience a 'knowing' about something that is akin to intuition I guess. I suppose that comes under 'feeling' as it is sensed in the body. Sometimes you just know the truth of something but it doesn't seem to come from the mind.

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

I think I've got it thanks. Direct seeing through direct experience.

WIth love

Gemma

[Anastacia42]

Excellent. Here's your first practice:


Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order. EXACTLY.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[ShamanKip]

Hi Stacy

Thanks for this exercise. It's been fascinating. I have been looking all day but have come down with a virus so not feeling good, will post my observations in the morning.

With love,

Gemma

[Anastacia42]

Sorry you aren't feeling well. Yes, when you feel better.

.uch love

[ShamanKip]

Hi Stacy

Thank you for your patience.

Reading a book:

Texture of front cover and pages in my hand = feeling/sensation
Smell of the pages = smelling and then sensation of pleasure/joy
Seeing the words and the spaces between and around the words = image/shapes
Reading words = thoughts and sensations
Noticing breathing = sensation/hearing
Kettle boiling = hearing
Clock ticking = hearing
Cold fingers = sensation
Thoughts arising about Middle East conflict = thought and sensation (fear - tightening of stomach, fluttering in heart area)
More thoughts about why I’m doing this, how I’ll never fully see it = thought
Now a torrent of thoughts about things I need to do = thoughts and sensation (panic)
Looking at hands = seeing and thought (whose hands are these? Are they mine? Wait - who said that??)
Sneezing = sensation
Reaching for cloth to wipe my nose = seeing and sensation
Thinking (Stacy is an idea in my mind and doesn’t exist in my experience. The words on the Gate are all appearing for me here now. I can never be away or outside of here) = Thought but also Seeing
Tightness in tummy again = sensation and then thought (‘of course there’s a you’ it seems to say. That’s what the tight tummy signifies)
Looking out of window = seeing images (bird flying behind a house/dandelions moving in the breeze) Then thought again - some kind of ancient memory, like the dandelions are everything, that I’ve known them for eternity)
Headache forming = sensation, with thought ‘wish this wasn’t happening’
Drinking tea = taste and sensation then the thought ‘what is taste? It’s a word! But what is it really pointing to? What is my tongue, like a strange creature in my mouth. Then a slight sensation of panic and over-awareness of tongue
Feet feeling cold = sensation. Mind feels blank, frozen
Thinking again = who is Gemma? What is that name? It feels unfamiliar suddenly
Thought = all flickers of Seeing will disappear when I interact with my children, who will insist that there’s a solid, separate Gemma!
Sensation = eyes filling with tears, painful thoughts of failure and confusion
Sensation = panic as the moment suddenly feels closer, more intimate, sense in throat and tummy of suffocation


I hope this is what you meant. I am looking at myself constantly, seeing what comes up, seeing what is happening. Stories of my life still feel strong and solid, there is a lot of fear and resistance. Memories of childhood are flooding my awareness. There is a sense of holding back from the abyss, clinging.

With love

Gemma

[Anastacia42]

Hi Gemma,

Close, but not quite.

In the instructions the labels and stories are on the left and on the right is a single word saying what the direct experience is and nothing more.

For example below pleasure and joy are labels and do not belong on the right side. Only Sensation with no label is DE.

Smell of the pages = smelling and then sensation of pleasure/joy

Please rewrite any where the instructions are not followed this way.

Loving,

[ShamanKip]

Hi Stacy

Is this right?

Sitting at table and reading a book:

Texture of front cover and pages in my hand = sensation
Smell of the pages = smelling/sensation
Seeing the words and the spaces between and around the words = seeing
Reading words = thoughts and sensations
Noticing breathing = sensation/hearing
Kettle boiling = hearing
Clock ticking = hearing
Cold fingers = sensation
Thoughts arising about Middle East conflict, contraction in tummy = thought and sensation
More thoughts about why I’m doing this, how I’ll never fully see it = thought
Thoughts about things I need to do and tummy contraction = thoughts and sensation
Looking at hands. Whose hands are these? Who’s thinking this? = seeing and thought
Sneezing = sensation
Reaching for cloth to wipe my nose = seeing and sensation
Thinking (Stacy is an idea in my mind and doesn’t exist in my experience. The words on the Gate are all appearing for me here now. I can never be away or outside of here) = thought
Tightness in tummy again = sensation
Thought, ‘of course there’s a you’ it seems to say = thought
Looking out of window bird flying behind a house/dandelions moving in the breeze = seeing
Some kind of ancient memory, like the dandelions are everything, that I’ve known them for eternity appears = thought
Headache forming with thought ‘wish this wasn’t happening’ = sensation/thought
Drinking tea = taste and sensation
Thought ‘what is taste?’ It’s a word! But what is it really pointing to? What is my tongue, like a strange creature in my mouth’ = thought/sensation
Sensation of panic and over-awareness of tongue = sensation
Feet feeling cold = sensation.
Thinking again who is Gemma? What is that name? It feels unfamiliar suddenly = thought/sensation
Thinking that all flickers of Seeing will disappear when I interact with my children, who will insist that there’s a solid, separate Gemma = thinking
Eyes filling with tears, painful thoughts of failure and confusion = sensation/thought
Panic as the moment suddenly feels closer, more intimate, sense in throat and tummy of suffocation = sensation

With love

Gemma

[Anastacia42]

Yes, Gemma. See how that's different? The point is to learn not to believe our thinking & labels, but to focus on what is there before labels & thinking.

I'm going to give you 2 things. First the next step about labels & second, a video on fear for you to watch, more than once, hopefully.


Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

And the video:

https://youtu.be/4Gh-8rD3Digsi=b9jciFoNYPXLjg8W

Loving,

[Anastacia42]

Here is another useful practice to clear fear:

Here is an anxiety exercise that focuses a person in the present, and in a part of the brain that cannot do anxiety. Basically, go through each sense and say (or think) "I see/ hear/ feel/ taste/ touch ______________." A minute or two of each and usually anxiety is gone.

I see the couch.
I see the keyboard.
I see the glass. Etc.

I hear the train.
I hear the keys clacking.
I hear my breath. Etc.

I feel the couch under my butt.
I feel my fingers on the keys.
I feel the cold air. Etc.

I taste a metallic taste in my mouth.
I taste the coffee.
I taste the food. Etc.

I smell the humidity in the air.
I smell my husband's shampoo.
I smell the soap. Etc.

As far as I can tell, the only time this doesn't work is when someone won't do it.

Tell me what comes up with these for your fears.

Loving,