What is really true?

[Inspirit12]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I see this as way of helping me to dissolve ALL illusionary beliefs and stories that has been imprinted in my mind as "true" without me being able to inspect the truth of these these in beforehand. When all illusionary and false beliefs are dissolved through bringing them to conciousness, only Truth remains. I am only interested in the Truth.

What are you looking for at LU?
I look for guidance to look in the right places I haven´t noticed to look before. I have been able to bring consciousness to many areas but I´m feeling there might be something left. The most recent finding is that there is no thinker behind a thought, the thoughts just arise. And that the feeling of an "I" thinking the thoughts is just another thought. I think there is some layers left still since I can relate as a persona still. I have had glimpses of direct experiences where the I has dissolved and I´ve seen everything happening without a subject/object way, just happening. Not happening to me, just happening. I have also had a direct experience where am as a "passenger" in my body just observing what the body does without me controlling it. These glimpses assures that there is something happening within me. These glimpses come also more frequent than before. I would appreciate the guidance from you to dissolve the remaining beliefs and to make the "new conditioning" permanent.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect the guided conversations to be guiding from someone making the right questions/pointings based on my own experience so that I can realize my false beliefs/stories by myself. I expect the guide to challenge me in a good way. As I said, only the Truth is in my interest. My intuition is that challenging questions might be the most efficient way to guide.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
My seeking started approx. 16 years ago after a personal crisis that revealed some false beliefs immediately. My life turned 180 degrees and my only interest was to become happy again and finding the truth. I have, for my whole life, had a feeling that there is something else to life than the current dualistic reality that cause suffering. I have unconsciously felt a longing for freedom my whole life and this is still my highest priority.

I have read a lot of literature from ancient teachings to modern self-help guides and everything in between. The philosophies of the Taoism and the Advaita Vedanta relates most with me. My favourite authors are Eckhart Tolle (Power of Now), Anthony De Mello (Awareness), The Way to Love). My interest (longing) is currently to non-duality where I can relate very much to Jed McKenna (Spiritual Enlightenment, the Damnedest Thing) and Tony Parsons (The Open Secret). I have also found Rupert Spira very helpful. I also met Lubo and Luchana in person recently at an event. I could relate to their pointings.

The recent year I have had few different kinds of glimpses of "a new reality" and these glimpses confirms that there is something else existing that I´ve been raised with. I have always felt a longing for freedom and now I also have got confirmations about one existing. In my world, there is no turning back. I am ready to wake up from my deep sleep.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

[Luchana]

Hi and welcome to the forum!

I feel so drown to your thread here, just felt an immediate resonance and also we met in person, no ? :-)
Meeting you and other folks in Stockholm was amazing experience, we are totally blown away by the honesty and genuine longing for truth no matter what.

I can walk with you here and see where the path is taking you.
We can have a look at direct experience and see what is the way of fully, fearlessly live that.


What name you prefer to call you?


And let's start by looking here at these questions:

What do you expect will happen when there is a clear seeing trough the illusion of separation?

How will life change?

How will you change?

Sending much love,
Luchana


ops. We are having a zoom meeting 18th of May, Thursday - a warm invitation to join us. I will provide the details via mail.

[Inspirit12]

Hi Luchana,

Thank you for your quick reply and for being my guide. A real pleasure to meet you again here at the forum. And thank you for a wonderful workshop in Stockholm. The effects of that meeting are gradually sinking in, and at the meeting I got many breaktroughs. One example was the flower example where you showed that life expresses itself as the flower, not in the flower. Also, I think there in some transformation happening on an energetic level because of the meeting in person. Hard to describe it any better. You can call me Tommy by the way :)

What do you expect will happen when there is a clear seeing trough the illusion of separation?

I expect liberation from fear that living in separartion brings. In clear seeing, I expect my life to be very ordinary but at the same extraordninary. By this I mean being able to appreciate even the smallest things that arise. I expect the life to be free from judgment at any level. I expect also an inner peace despite what happens outside of me. I expect experiencing more joy and harmony also.

How will life change?

I think my life will be ordinary and kind of same how it is right now. I expect to feel more peace and harmony & joy in my everyday life. I also expect that I´ll continue doing the things I have a preference for now and cutting of things from my life that I´ve done for the wrong reasons. By this I mean I´ll be more authentic as a person and more honest to myself and others.

How will you change?

I will be more relaxed and joyful and have no longing for searching anymore. I will be true to myself and act in a way that is natural for me. I think I´ll be even more spontaneus and guided by my intuition. I will also feel joyful more often since the fear/suffering is gone.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

All the best,
Tommy

[Luchana]

Hi Tommy,

Thank you for your quick reply and for being my guide. A real pleasure to meet you again here at the forum. And thank you for a wonderful workshop in Stockholm. The effects of that meeting are gradually sinking in, and at the meeting I got many breaktroughs. One example was the flower example where you showed that life expresses itself as the flower, not in the flower. Also, I think there in some transformation happening on an energetic level because of the meeting in person. Hard to describe it any better. You can call me Tommy by the way :)

Thank you for your beautiful words. Resonate a lot.
Thank you also for taking time to look at the expectations. Expectations are hindrance of what is already here and easily something can be dismissed and trown away because it doesn't much the expected outcome. From my experience I can share with you that never, ever is the way we expected to be :-)

I expect liberation from fear that living in separartion brings. In clear seeing, I expect my life to be very ordinary but at the same extraordninary. By this I mean being able to appreciate even the smallest things that arise. I expect the life to be free from judgment at any level. I expect also an inner peace despite what happens outside of me. I expect experiencing more joy and harmony also.

Oh I see. We all want to have clear seeing, no judgment, inner peace, joy and harmony. That is so natural for us as humans. But what if there is enough space for everything to arise here? What is freedom is not from, but with?
See, the buffet is already served and there is everything, not only pleasant sensations and experiences. So more inner peace may happen, but irritation aswell. We are not choosing what to feel and experiencing..in any given moment.

I think my life will be ordinary and kind of same how it is right now. I expect to feel more peace and harmony & joy in my everyday life. I also expect that I´ll continue doing the things I have a preference for now and cutting of things from my life that I´ve done for the wrong reasons. By this I mean I´ll be more authentic as a person and more honest to myself and others.

Right. It is in the ordinariness where extraordinariness shines :-) Yes, authenticity for this character to be as it is can happen. Also all suppressed emotions are going to show themselves, which means that anger, sadness are going freely to be expressed without nothing to stick to.
Trauma, old patterns, addictions are not going to be resolved as if with a magic stick, yet it is easier to look and transform them.
There is no self/Tommy even now and all these are happening, no?

I will be more relaxed and joyful and have no longing for searching anymore. I will be true to myself and act in a way that is natural for me. I think I´ll be even more spontaneus and guided by my intuition. I will also feel joyful more often since the fear/suffering is gone.

Again it can't be known in advance, for each one is different... good to be aware of all that longing knowing that it may or may not happen the way you expect.


Please read few times my comments and see your expectations from a different angle.

Notice - is there a resistance to any of those (comments.)?

Sending much love,
Luchana

[Inspirit12]

Hi Luchana,

Freedom WITH! Amazing! Just brilliant. This is huge for me. First I stopped at this and felt a lot of resistance. But now it feels all resistance is melting away. I have to digest this for a while and let it sink in. Just amazing! Talk to you soon at the Zoom call :)

With love,
Tommy

[Luchana]

Hi Tommy,
so lovely to see you last night.

First I stopped at this and felt a lot of resistance. But now it feels all resistance is melting away. I have to digest this for a while and let it sink in

Resistance is a protective mechanism and it is doing its job very well. It is protecting something. But if we look closer - it is just a sensation and how you already notice it is melting away.

Let's have a closer look now at thoughts
Sit quietly for about 15-20 or more minutes and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.

Where are they coming from and going to?
Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
Can you predict your next thought?
Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?
Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?

Take your time and reply all questions individually.

sending love,
luchana

[Inspirit12]

Hi Luchana,

Thank you for a wonderful meeting on Zoom. I really love the energy of yours. I have tried to give my most honest answers to your questions below. It feels that that I am very identified with the thoughts when they come and I have a hard time to completely ignore them. They "swallow" my full attention very easily.

Where are they coming from and going to?

It seems that the thoughts arise from nowhere, even if I felt my left brain was the place where they arised. When I Observed the thoughts the disappeared almost immediately

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

No, I did not do anything.

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

No.

Can you predict your next thought?

Not at all.

Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?

No, that feels hard.

Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

No, those arise by themselves.

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

No, I don’t think so. But at the same time I also feel that I can focus on some specific thoughts if I try. For example on some pleasant childhood memories.

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

No.

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?

The thoughts that arised were very random. There was some thoughts arising that were related to recent happenings I felt. But besides that, no other sequences. I maybe also felt that the thought took content from previous thought. Maybe that I just a thought also? I don’t really know.

Thank you once again and have lovely evening.

Best Regards,
//Tommy

[Luchana]

Hi Tommy,

you did a very good looking!

It feels that that I am very identified with the thoughts when they come and I have a hard time to completely ignore them. They "swallow" my full attention very easily.

Here is something which may help with that.

First thing is to sit for at least 10-15 minutes quietly somewhere, several times throughout your day. Close your eyes and just notice thoughts. Don’t engage with any thought, just notice them.
1. Notice the current thought that is present.
Like when you sit observing the body, a thought might arise “this is my feet” or “here is a pain” or “my breathing is too quick” or “I am bored with this exercise” or “I have better things to do” or any sorts of thoughts.
2. This thought will pass and another thought will come. So just observe this thought passing.
3. Then wait for the next thought to come.
4. When the next thought is present, just notice it, and see how it passes.
5. Then wait for the next thought to come.
6. Repeat #4 and #5 many-many times.
Between the 2 thoughts there is a gap. It can be very short or subtle, just a second or a few seconds before the next thought come in.
This is how to look at thoughts:-
Looking how they come and go, and Observing the short gap between them. Noticing how the current thought is passing. And waiting for the next thought to come.

The thoughts that arised were very random. There was some thoughts arising that were related to recent happenings I felt. But besides that, no other sequences. I maybe also felt that the thought took content from previous thought. Maybe that I just a thought also? I don’t really know.

Is it possible for a thought to took a content from another thought?
Can a thought experience another thought?
Can a thought think?

And here is another exercise to look thoughs closely and specially thought about me.


Get a sheet of paper and draw a line that divides that sheet in half. Label one half 'self' and the other side 'other'. Sit down and start a timer for 5 minutes. Every time you have a thought make a mark on the sheet. If that thought is about the self put a mark on the self side, if it’s about something else, mark the other side. If a thought about food occurs due to feeling hungry, mark that on the self side. Any thought that refers back to a self should go on the self side. (I'm bored, I'm tired, is the door locked (my safety) that video was funny (I was amused), my back hurts, I am frightened) get it?

Let me know how you go and what you notice.

Sending love,
Luchana

[Inspirit12]

Hi Luchana,

Thank you for the training instructions. I have started with the exercises you gave me. I will continue doing the first one this week since I already now feel this is one of the key issues I have. In the beginning of the exercise when thoughts are arising frequently I have a hard time to find the no-thought (gap) and really to observe the thought not identifying with it. When my mind calms down after let´s say 10 minutes or so, I can feel a wonderful peace inside me and rest in the no-thought, every thought is just melting away and no new ones are arising almost at all. This feels like heaven. But as I said, the beginnings are tough, which means I have to do the work and continue with the exercice.

One other thing that I notice is a big resistance in me to this exercise. This has to mean that we are close to the core of my problem, which is great. I have also observed a strange head ache in my frontal brain since the festival. I feel there is something going on on a physical level also.

The other exercise you gave was also quite interesting. If I had a monkey mind during the exercice, the ratio "self thoughts" to "other thoughts was like 9 to 1 (90% self thoughts, which is scary..) If I have meditated prior and my mind was calm, the ratio was more like 60/40 to the benefit of "self thoughts". Can this mean that stress means literally that more "self thoughts are arising? Interesting.

I also cocluded that a thought can´t think, can´t experience another thought and can´t take content from other thoughts.

Well, as I said, I will conitnue with the first excercise observing my thoughts and the gaps between them. My intuitition tells this is going to be helpful for me. I will let you know about my new findings soon.

With love,
Tommy

[Luchana]

Hi Tommy,

Thank you for the training instructions. I have started with the exercises you gave me. I will continue doing the first one this week since I already now feel this is one of the key issues I have. In the beginning of the exercise when thoughts are arising frequently I have a hard time to find the no-thought (gap) and really to observe the thought not identifying with it. When my mind calms down after let´s say 10 minutes or so, I can feel a wonderful peace inside me and rest in the no-thought, every thought is just melting away and no new ones are arising almost at all. This feels like heaven. But as I said, the beginnings are tough, which means I have to do the work and continue with the exercice.

you are welcome, in the beginning it may feels difficult, because we are so used to with thoughts, but when start noticing thoughts like that the experience changes inevitably.

The other exercise you gave was also quite interesting. If I had a monkey mind during the exercice, the ratio "self thoughts" to "other thoughts was like 9 to 1 (90% self thoughts, which is scary..) If I have meditated prior and my mind was calm, the ratio was more like 60/40 to the benefit of "self thoughts". Can this mean that stress means literally that more "self thoughts are arising? Interesting.

Nice. I'm curious about these 10 % seemingly other thoughts. Can you give an example ?

And I'm curious also about this scary feeling. Can you say some more about that?

Because upon a closer examination it may turns out that these thoughts are also about me, self just in a hidden way.

Sending love,
Luchana

ps. This Saturday 27th of May we are making a day online retreat...
here are the details if you feel an impulse to join.
https://awakeningawakened.com

[Inspirit12]

Hi Luchana,

Damn. I just realized this morning that "I have to do the work and do the training to learn this" is just another thought! An immediate liberation arised after this realization. What´s going on here?.. Crazy. I see now it´s not about the doing, it´s about the realization..

Yes, one example of another thought than "me thought" was like "the neighbour has nice flowers on the balcony" As of matter of fact, now when I´m wriring this I realize it´s "MY neighbour! This is getting really spooky now...

Scary in the sense how the mind is manipulating and taking ownership of the "self" by sending only "I" realed thoughts. Now it seems like the mind´s only mission is to keep the false belief alive by telling lies about "me" and who I should believe that I am.


One thing that I´m a bit confused of regarding thoughts is that I seemingly CAN direct my thought to anything I like. for example, If I want to think of a red car, I can start thinking of a red car. Is this also another thought or trick by the mind to make me believe that I can think my thoughts and therefore I am my thoughts? I don´t really get this part yet.

Enormously big thanks for your guiding! This is awesome.

Best,
Tommy

[Luchana]

Hi Tommy,

Damn. I just realized this morning that "I have to do the work and do the training to learn this" is just another thought! An immediate liberation arised after this realization. What´s going on here?.. Crazy. I see now it´s not about the doing, it´s about the realization..

:-) yes. It is a about looking and in the looking and not thinking is where the magic/realisation happens.

Yes, one example of another thought than "me thought" was like "the neighbour has nice flowers on the balcony" As of matter of fact, now when I´m wriring this I realize it´s "MY neighbour! This is getting really spooky now...

Right.
And according to "my perception the neighbour has nice flowers.
These flowers are nice according ME>.

So in this simple looking it turns out that most if not all thoughts are about me, self.


But who/what thinks those?
Is it possible to find a thinker?
What could be that which thinks?
Another thought?
Can a thought think?

Scary in the sense how the mind is manipulating and taking ownership of the "self" by sending only "I" realed thoughts. Now it seems like the mind´s only mission is to keep the false belief alive by telling lies about "me" and who I should believe that I am.

What is "mind" when it is looked at right now in this very moment?
How "mind" is experienced exactly?

One thing that I´m a bit confused of regarding thoughts is that I seemingly CAN direct my thought to anything I like. for example, If I want to think of a red car, I can start thinking of a red car. Is this also another thought or trick by the mind to make me believe that I can think my thoughts and therefore I am my thoughts? I don´t really get this part yet.

Confusion is ok. Let's make an experiment:
set a timer for 3-4 mintures and try to think ONLY about a red car and NOTHING else?
Is it working?

Enormously big thanks for your guiding! This is awesome.

You are most welcome. There is so much joy here.


Sending love,
Luchana

[Luchana]

Hi Tommy,

trust all is good?
I've sent you an e-mail few days ago and now just checking ...

Sending love,
Luchana

[Inspirit12]

Hi Luchana,

Thank you for a very good and intimate session on Thursday. I got really much to reflect upon from this meeting. For example that we´re the space around us and that the bodies are just energy with mind action steering the bodies, the bodies are empty vessels inside where no-one is "inside". This is a very powerful experience when I experienced glimpses of empty bodies walking in the streets and we all really are the same, the space around everything. this weekend has been very intense with a lot of self-inquiry and reflection. Also, I think it helps very much to be close to self-realized persons to feel this on an energetic level, not on a mind level only.

To your prior questions of thoughts, I can now more easily see that they are random, learned programming in form of mind activity. There is also en enormous power in the mind activity trying to capture to whole essence of the self. It´s very hard sometimes not to be run over by it and get totally lost again.

I try to answer your questions as good as I can:

But who/what thinks those? No-one
Is it possible to find a thinker? No
What could be that which thinks? Mind activity, nothing more
Another thought? This I´m not sure of.
Can a thought think? I don´t think so.

What is "mind" when it is looked at right now in this very moment? It seems completely empty. Empty space.
How "mind" is experienced exactly? Often as a sensation only. Nothing more.

Thank you very much for supporting me in this.

Much love,
//tommy

[Luchana]

Hi Tommy,

To your prior questions of thoughts, I can now more easily see that they are random, learned programming in form of mind activity. There is also en enormous power in the mind activity trying to capture to whole essence of the self. It´s very hard sometimes not to be run over by it and get totally lost again.

Is it possible something which can't be found at direct experience to has an activity?


And HOW the essence of the self is experienced?

What is "mind" when it is looked at right now in this very moment? It seems completely empty. Empty space.
How "mind" is experienced exactly? Often as a sensation only. Nothing more.

Nice observation.
Can you bring closer that sensation .. Feel to it and look curiously:

Does the raw sensation itself suggest in any way that this is "mind"?
What brings that information?

Thank you for a very good and intimate session on Thursday. I got really much to reflect upon from this meeting. For example that we´re the space around us and that the bodies are just energy with mind action steering the bodies, the bodies are empty vessels inside where no-one is "inside". This is a very powerful experience when I experienced glimpses of empty bodies walking in the streets and we all really are the same, the space around everything. this weekend has been very intense with a lot of self-inquiry and reflection. Also, I think it helps very much to be close to self-realized persons to feel this on an energetic level, not on a mind level only.

Thank you for your beautiful words...yea this meeting was heart melting. Miracles happen when we gather like that. And for sure something is happening on energetic level. Mainly. This is why we are offering an opportunity to be with us for a week in person :-)

Thank you very much for supporting me in this.

I admire so much your willingness to look.

Sending much love,
Luchana