The Gate

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
My initial response is laughter. My understanding of this is that there is no separate entity 'pulling the strings' it is more of a residual of thoughts / beliefs and habits that can filter experience. Direct insight has been had into this. I'm not sure if I do experience self now or not but I am not manipulating my environment consciously.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking for a guide. Someone who has been through this and can act as a mirror and allow me to see where needs work. I am also looking to be a part of a community with open discussion on spirituality / awakening.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Honest observation and reflection on experience. The chance to form deep connections. Things revealed to me that may not align with my current perception of experience. Two humans that can learn from one another.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
First was interested in spirituality after taking LSD in 2018. Explored everything over the next years. Last year had an experience that I can't describe felt like a pop and seeing truth for the first time. Had been practising self-inquiry (Ramana Maharishi who am I ). Lots of seeking and pain. More recently non duality. Currently Zen and I have begun meditating again by just sitting morning and night.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

Hello there :o)

My name is Ankita, and it is wonderful to see you at the Gate. I'd be happy to guide you, if you like?
What may I call you, and what time zone are you in, please?

I read your answers - thank you for your openness.

A few things before we begin:

1. You are required to post everyday, as this inquiry works best if the momentum is maintained. If at any point, more time is needed, please let me know.

2. If you haven't already, please read the disclaimer (http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/) and what Liberation Unleashed is NOT (http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041), and confirm that you have understood them.

3. You will be asked several questions throughout our conversation, and they will be in blue. Even if they feel repetitive sometimes, please answer each of them individually, as each one of them serves a purpose. When you answer a question, you may quote it using the "quote" feature. This video may be helpful to understand how it works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fAToDNh9hQ

4. It is advisable to write your answers in a word document and copy-paste them here, as technology is not perfect and glitches may sometimes wipe out your answers.

If this is all okay by you, we may start.

Warmly,
Ankita

Hi Ankita,

I really appreciate the response and hope you are well.

I am fully committed to this and will be transparent with my answers.

My name is Tom and I am in London - BST / GMT.

Thanks

Hi Tom,

Wonderful! Let's begin :)

It is a good first step to let all expectations float to the surface. There's no one judging and I've held some fun expectations too - so be honest:

On passing through the Gate,
- How will life change?
- How will you change?
- What will be different?
- What is missing as of now?

Warmly,
Ankita

Hi Ankita,

Upon seeing your reply my initial reaction was excitement and I immediately jumped onto my laptop where I am writing this now.
I think there is a feeling that I will finally be able to understand what is going on or that something will change.

- How will life change?

Pondering this question I don't expect anything to change or maybe I do. I am not sure what I expect to change to be honest with you...
I guess I am hoping for some relief or something that will provide understanding. Writing this I am noticing myself over analyse and when it comes to it I don't know at all how life will change I guess I am looking to feel less lost.

How will you change?

Thats a tricky one as life seems to change along with me. Life, as it appears, tends to change as I do.

What will be different?

I guess the difference I am looking for is this sense of confusion to go away. Maybe I am resisting something or scared.

- What is missing as of now?

What is missing right now... a deep sigh after asking myself this. nothing is missing. But now has made me aware of discomfort in my stomach (maybe after eating too much...)

Asking myself these questions seems like they are all asking the same thing or pointing me to the same place.

I just feel hopeless.

I really appreciate your kindness and it is great to talk with someone about this, truly grateful.

Thanks

Tom

Hi Ankita,

Just adding something on here as I said I didn't know what I expect to change.

I am expecting things to be better...

I don't know what I mean by better but there is a general sense.

Thanks

Tom

Hi Tom,

I hear you. Your expectations are understandable, and I thank you for reporting with honesty.
There are many things here to explore deeply, but for now, let's go with:

Maybe I am resisting something or scared.

Please inspect closely:
What is it that you are scared of?
What comes up on reading that there is no separate self, no you, and it is all a made up story?

Looking forward to your answers,
Ankita

Morning Ankita (:

What is it that you are scared of?

I think there is a fear of not thinking, or having a protection mechanism of sorts. There is something that feels the need to figure out
and tie together what is happening in experience. I guess what is underlying this is that I can actually control something and I would prefer
to have 'better' experiences in the future. But looking at this I can see through. Yet the sense that I am in control seems quite real.

What comes up on reading that there is no separate self, no you, and it is all a made up story?

Haha I just started laughing because it is true. The next thing that comes up is what does that mean or how does that change anything. Who / what is making it up? I guess I am looking for a permanent end to something that never existed in the first place, how silly XD. Hmm kind of at a stand still with something else to write here. How to stop falling back into believing in 'i'. But then there is no 'i' to be believed in. But then this will likely be forgotten. My thought process here, seems like 'i' am trying to make a plan to remember that 'i' doesn't exist which thereby carries on the existence of 'i'! Hahah what a sneaky guy. Interested to hear your thoughts.

Gratefully,

Tom

Hi Tom,

I think there is a fear of not thinking, or having a protection mechanism of sorts.

Look at the fear of not thinking. Can a thought protect anything? Can you find something that needs protection?

I guess what is underlying this is that I can actually control something and I would prefer to have 'better' experiences in the future. But looking at this I can see through. Yet the sense that I am in control seems quite real.

Can you please tell me more about looking at control and "seeing it through"? What did you see through? Where did you look? If you see that you are not in control, what comes back to claim that you are in control? Is it a thought? Is the thought in control? Are you in control of the thought that claims to be in control?


We will be exploring control in depth several times in our conversation.

I just started laughing because it is true.

Why do you say it is true? Is it from memories of having seen it or is it from seeing it right now? Once again, what do you see, and where do you look?

'i' am trying to make a plan to remember that 'i' doesn't exist which thereby carries on the existence of 'i'

Yes, and you see that is the burden of intellectual understanding. Knowing that there is no self, and SEEING that there is no self are two very different things.

Our goal is to SEE it, absolutely and clearly, for once and for all. Is the self actually here, or is it not. The sense of self, the sense of control - these are all thought games.

In order to SEE it, we will make use of Direct Experience (DE). Here's a short introduction to it:

Coloured Socks:
If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to answer:
1. You can think about it, trying to remember, or guessing what color they are.
2. You can have a look at your socks and see what color they ACTUALLY are!
You will agree that only by looking you could be 100% certain, right?

For the purpose of this inquiry, it is crucial that you are clear about this difference in the two ways of answering and stick only to the second way. We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on. We are only interested in Direct (Actual) Experience (DE/AE)- the experience right now and right here.

Direct or Actual Experience is:

Seeing
Hearing
Sensing (not emotion - emotion is sensation plus thoughts/labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content, what the thought is ABOUT)

If this is clear, we will move on to practise LOOKING in direct experience. Once again, please sit with the questions and answer them individually.

:)

Warmly,
Ankita

Hi Ankita,

Can a thought protect anything? Can you find something that needs protection?

I suppose thoughts arise as a way to make sense of what is happening. I don't think they can protect anything but give more a sense of security. I can't find something that needs protection.

Can you please tell me more about looking at control and "seeing it through"? What did you see through? Where did you look?

By seeing through I meant that when look at control I can see that there is no one in control here. I saw through the identification with thoughts. I look at the thought.

If you see that you are not in control, what comes back to claim that you are in control?

Hmm yeah thats true it feels like falling back into a state where I have forgotten an important piece of information. But now in this state the other is seen to be illusory. I feel like these two states can't co-exist and not sure if states is an accurate term to use.

Is it a thought? Is the thought in control?

I really don't know what claims to be in control, what is upset by experience or what wants to infleunce it. It feels like acting under a spell I think, but I am not sure how to tell.

Are you in control of the thought that claims to be in control?

ahahahah that made me laugh and sigh at the silliness of it all. wow I actually just looked at something there that I don't think I have looked at before. Who the heck is this typing. It can be seen that there is no one here really. But actually looking at this sense of no one being here, why am I writing this? Anything that comes up that I am going to write seems pointless including this but I have to communicate this point. I don't know what to say. stopped.

Why do you say it is true? Is it from memories of having seen it or is it from seeing it right now? Once again, what do you see, and where do you look?

I see, what is true now? Yes thats true its being recalled from memory, it is like a concept has been 'grasped' and then tucked away on the path of spiritual progress haha. Reading your words 'what do you see' and 'where do you look' it feels like a sensation takes place in my head and a focus on silence. These questions bring me to the sounds I hear outside.

Knowing that there is no self, and SEEING that there is no self are two very different things.

Yes that is true, I never actually looked at it that way, just between knowing and seeing. The concept of no self gives the self the perfect hiding spot, now the 'I' that has identified with being no-one. How to see no-self? There is no self. Interesting, it feels like there is a continual sense here of always wanting to grasp something or add.

I want to see once and for all the self that is typing this and 'I' am going to look now. ahahaha I have no idea how to look, what is being looked for, who wants to see, what there is to be seen. There are no questions.

Yep DE stuff makes sense apart from the thoughts arising. What do you mean by what the thought is ABOUT vs content? Is it the difference between a thought about hunger and a thought that says what should I have for dinner?

It is so great working with you on this because assumptions are actually being looked at. It feels paradoxical to ask questions about how to abide somewhere where there are no questions. I want to stay here. Who wants to? confused... clear...

I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

Thanks :)

Tom

Hi Ankita,

I am experiencing lightness and have been naturally taking lots of deep breaths which feels really good and feel relaxed.

Nice to experience openness.

I thank you once again :)

Tom

Dear Tom,

Great! Thank you for your answers.
There are indeed a few unchecked assumptions, and we will walk together to see through them.

I don't think they can protect anything but give more a sense of security.

When we have more practice in DE (Direct Experience), let us touch upon the "sense" of things. I understand from your words that despite knowing some things to be false, there is still a "sense" of some truth in them, for example: sense of security, sense of control, sense of self-ing.

For now, I would like you to recall something from your life that brings up fear. It would be best if it is not too personal, so we can discuss it deeply.
Can you tell me one such thing?
Can you list a few thoughts that accompany this fear?
Next, if we were to soothe this fear, can you list a few thoughts that would accompany the "sense of security" in this case?

For example:
A fear: What if I fail this exam?
Thoughts accompanying this fear: I'd have to repeat the year... What will my friends say... It will ruin my career...
Thoughts that carry the "sense of security": I have studied enough to pass. I have done my best. This exam is not the end of the world.

Now LOOK at these thoughts, and carefully answer:
Can the fearful thoughts control reality?
Can the comforting thoughts control reality?
Can any thought control reality?
Are the fearful thoughts different from comforting thoughts?
What happened here except the change of content from one group of thoughts to another group of thoughts?
Without the thought content of security, what is left of this "sense" we speak of?
Can you see that the sense was just that - a sensation?

Yes thats true its being recalled from memory, it is like a concept has been 'grasped' and then tucked away on the path of spiritual progress haha.

Yes! Will you agree that this is yet another clever trick to avoid 'seeing'?
Lets put aside all the seeing that may have happened in the past. We LOOK now.

The concept of no self gives the self the perfect hiding spot, now the 'I' that has identified with being no-one.

Yes!

What do you mean by what the thought is ABOUT vs content?

Please excuse the phrasing, it's not supposed to be "About vs content", they mean the same thing. It is more so: Thoughts arising (but not their content, i.e. what they are about). So for example: thoughts about hunger, about what to have for dinner, about the sky -- all are simply "thoughts arising".

With that, here is the first exercise for DE:

Actual/Direct Experience - Apple

Have a look at an apple (or any fruit you like.) If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise. Or you can just use this image of an apple:



When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Colour is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what do they describe?

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought.

Actual experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thought arising, but not its content.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by "looking in actual experience." What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
Color labeled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

Have fun and let me know what you find out.

Anything that comes up that I am going to write seems pointless including this but I have to communicate this point. I don't know what to say.

Don't worry about words :) As long as we keep the focus on "seeing"... its all good.

I'm honoured to work with you.

Warmly,
Ankita

Good Morning :)

Which time zone are you in?

Can you tell me one such thing?
Can you list a few thoughts that accompany this fear?
Next, if we were to soothe this fear, can you list a few thoughts that would accompany the "sense of security" in this case?

Something that brings up fear is speaking to new people or speaking in new groups of people. Thoughts include: They think I am weird, what do I say?what are they thinking about me? They are going to see that I am flawed and reject me. (this feels like a strong belief)

To soothe this, ooh this is good as it is looking at things that I hold to be true, so I will usually hhave thoughts like they don't know what I am experiencing or they don't understand me. Also, when I am uncomfortable I tend to look at the situation from different perspectives like that there is no self appearing as everyone. Not sure if this is bypassing or not. There is also the sense that I know more than you or I am more aware than you, some superioirty that leads
me to be quite dismissive at times.

Can the fearful thoughts control reality?

When I look at these thoughts haha wow its a different answer to than when I try to conceptualise it. When I conceptualise I say well yeah if the thought is believed in then it will make you more likely to act in accordance and so creating that outcome. Yet when I look at the thought now it is just a thought. But this also feels uncomfortable to do. Maybe because I am used to conceptualising. It is like a different world, one where I can see the other person instead
of playing a game in my head.

Can the comforting thoughts control reality?

Looking at this, why do these thoughts arise? Yeah soothing seems to fit like justifying existence and carrying the cycle on. But who is doing that? I would much rather not have these thoughts. Although saying this some anxiety krept in about what would happen if I didn't have these thoughts. Comforting thoughts also cannot control reality.

Can any thought control reality?

What is a thought? How to discriminate between a thought and I? When i LOOK i do not find.

Are the fearful thoughts different from comforting thoughts?

They are thoughts

What happened here except the change of content from one group of thoughts to another group of thoughts?

aahahah oh yes true. This notion has seen through the fact that I relate thoughts to what is happening in experience. When in reality it is a thought.

Without the thought content of security, what is left of this "sense" we speak of?

Wow this is breaking down my story isn't it. Looking here, this sense is a sense of uncomfortableness or unease. Attention is on the body.

Can you see that the sense was just that - a sensation?

Yes (I am writing this one after the apple as I accidentally missed it out) it appears that a story has been constructed out of this sensation tied to thoughts that is then justified by other thoughts. This is very cool. The story is so alluring. Its all a construction. huh. 'I' don't know how to move forward from here.

Will you agree that this is yet another clever trick to avoid 'seeing'?

Yes I agree it is a very clever trick. Is the whole thing just about avoiding looking right now?

What about the content of thoughts, what do they describe?

Hmm not sure I understand fully, do yo mean just generally what do the contents of thoughts describe? looking at this, the content of thoughts seems to be a story that I have some belief in.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Aha yes true there are different colours appearing to take the shape of an apple.

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

This question takes me to a place of just looking. What is apple? What is laptop? From this view they are appearances.

However, is an apple actually known? Have fun and let me know what you find out.

Woah this is awesome XD feels like touching an apple for the first time hahah this one is quite sticky for some reason. It is like all the taste, sensation etc are tied together into a memory of apple. Apple doesn't exist. I kind of want apple to exist for some reason. Looking at this, the thought ' I kind of want apple to exist for some reason ' does not arise when directly experiencing 'apple'. I have a funny feeling that this doesn't apply to only apples...

This is really fun thank you for guiding me through this! I am going to make effort to directly experience some other things today.

<3

Tom

Hello hello :o)

Which time zone are you in?

I am in India, timezone GMT + 5:30.

The point of the questions in relation to fearful thoughts was to see that fear too is simply a sensation + thoughts that label the sensation, to ease the allowing process of it and not let fear become a hurdle for DE. While there is still conceptualization as you recognized, we may consider this point established for our purpose.

From here on now, we will be strictly adhering to Direct Experience only, no matter how tempting it seems to conceptualize/ intellectualize. Ultimately, DE will be our means to cross the Gate, and all the questions that you hold, for example:

why do these thoughts arise?

What is a thought? How to discriminate between a thought and I?

...will be answered by you.

Once again for review:
Direct or Actual Experience is ONLY these 6 things:
Seeing
Hearing
Sensing (not emotion, emotion is simply sensation + thoughts arising)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Our exercise for today:
Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

You may try this as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities as simply colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

For example, when having coffee in the morning, become aware of:
Seeing a cup, simply= image/colour (just seeing)
Smelling coffee, simply = smell (just smelling)
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation (just sensing)
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste (just tasting)
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound (just hearing)
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought (just thoughts arising)

Break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists EXACTLY like the one above. Please write a few examples from your daily life.

Warmly,
Ankita

Hello :)

Hope you are well.

Break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists EXACTLY like the one above. Please write a few examples from your daily life.

Drinking Orange Tea:

seeing a cup = light and dark shades / colour / contrast against other appearing objects
smelling orange scent = breathing in / cool sensation on nostril
sensing tension of the weight of the cup and warmth in stomach = sensations
tasting orange flavour = tingling sensation on tongue / texture
hearing sound of the wind outside / sound of placing cup on table = sound
thoughts about the sensations and pleasure of experience = thoughts

Very interesting breaking this down and perceiving with the senses. I suppose its not so much 'breaking this down', but not 'constructing'.


Working on my laptop:

seeing my monitors and keyboard = colour / brightness
smelling incense = breathing through the nose / slight tickling
sensing my hands on the keyboard = touching the grooves between keys on keyboard / difference in texture
tasting mintiness in mouth after brushing teeth = tingling on tongue / dryness
hearing birds say good morning = a variety of rhythmic sounds / silence
thoughts about planning the day ahead = ideas


Walk in Forest:

Seeing trees = colour / shape / depth
Hearing music and birds = sounds / silence
Sensing wind on face = contrast felt on skin as sensation
Tasting aftertaste of lunch and coffee = sensation on tongue and in mouth
Smelling fresh air = breathing in through nose
Thought about beauty and enjoyable experience = thought / reaction to sensations

When all of this is looked at there is emptiness. There are sensations here that appear in / as part of the emptiness / nothing.

Tom