The Gate

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
there is an illusion, ego, mind, which is not the truth, it is a creation

What are you looking for at LU?
liberation from the mind . Peace. to see my true nature. to see what is already the case. To not be limited by thoughts and beliefs. To not be scared of death and loved ones dying. to be happier and less depressed

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
pointers and guidance and some words from the guides experience, which can help. Wisdom from that . To speak to someone who has already been through the gateless gate . for me to answer questions honestly.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
OSHO meditations, WHO IS IN? - KOANS. Eckhart Tolle. Rupert Spira, Angelo Dillulo

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

Good morning!

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like. I'm curious. How did you come to request me as your guide?

One thing I want to make very clear up front is that with me, you must post every day. If you know yourself and your schedule are such that you cannot do this, tell me, "no," and someone else can guide you, please.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you know yourself to be a skeptical person, prone to doubt, I may not be the best guide for you. I never had any doubt. I can connect you with one of our other guides who did & who can guide you better than I.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

Much love,

Good morning!

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

hello Stacy! Nice to meet you! Yes please it would be great if you would be my guide !

I'm curious. How did you come to request me as your guide?

Good question. I read how the forum works and saw there was an archive of self-realised conversations. I saw your name in there a lot! Based on that I thought it would be a good idea to ask you! haha :)

One thing I want to make very clear up front is that with me, you must post every day. If you know yourself and your schedule are such that you cannot do this, tell me, "no," and someone else can guide you, please.

Everyday is fine by me!

How will life change?

the body will be lighter, less worries, more love

How will you change?

there is no me that can change, but i think many thoughts will be seen as untrue and may be dropped

What will be different?

thoughts. love . peace

What is missing?

nothing missing, its what is added that seems to be the question

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

I have read the LU disclaimer and I agree. You can call me David. I am in England so time zone is GMT. What is your time zone?

all the best and thanks again!!!

Hi David,

I'm in Colorado, in the US, Mountain Time Zone. Welcome!

Your expectations are pretty reasonable. One thing to know is that the sense of no self comes and goes, possibly for years.

Watch these 2 videos, please:

https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w

and

https://youtu.be/PUDzrCLlrj4

Now, what comes up when is read that that there is no separate "self," never has been and never will be? That it is all just a made up story?

Much love,

I'm in Colorado, in the US, Mountain Time Zone.

lovely!!

Watch these 2 videos, please:

https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w

and

https://youtu.be/PUDzrCLlrj4

both beautiful videos! thank you!

Now, what comes up when is read that that there is no separate "self," never has been and never will be? That it is all just a made up story

?
the response changes depending on "my" mood. For example, i woke up this morning and "I" was in and out of thoughts, a bit more "adhd" than yesterday, and i found it very hard to accept that I am not in control of whether I am thinking thoughts or not". 5 minutes later i realised that "i cannot accept this", was just a thought. but before i realised it was a thought, it felt real. and now, for example, I find it quite cool that there has never been a self. I do have to ongoing thing though....who is / or who will be the one to know that there is no self?

much love!

Good morning,

who is / or who will be the one to know that there is no self?

It's a paradox. You'll see.

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.


Loving,

thank you. it is very clear. what ive understood is this:- when I am using a pointer to look, i must use Direct or Actual Experience. And that is :-

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content).

super clear!

looking at that list. I already know I won't find a self in those things listed! But i also know I need to look and go through this!

Yes, good, right.

So, now try this:

Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

So, now try this:
Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be

very enjoyable activity, and also scary and some resistance to do it because it works!


hearing a voice, simple = sound
feeling fingers on the keyboard, simply = sensations
seeing trousers, simply = colour / image
clenching of the jaw, simply = sensations
thought about the jaw, simply = thought
sadness about the thought, simply =. sensations
sadness about the thought, simple = thoughts
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Smelling the coffee, simply = taste
feeling tightness in the neck, simply = sensation
seeing houses and trees, simply = images/ colours
seeing a monitor, simply. = images/ colours
clicking fingers, simply = sounds
hearing a creaky desk, simply = sounds
moving the eyes, simply = sensations
scratching an itch, simply = sensations
seeing the sea, simply=. colours / images
seeing my face on zoom, simply = images/colours
picking up phone, simply = sensations
writing a text message, simply = sensations
seeing the light shine on a house, simply = images / colour
coughing, simple = sensations + sound
looking at powerpoint to learn things, simply = image / colour
looking at powerpoint to learn things, simply = thoughts
seeing a number, simply = images / colours
seeing writing, simply = images / colours
writing on this forum, simply = sensations
thinking about self-realisation, simply = thought
resistance to Labeling Daily Activities, simply = thoughts
resistance to Labeling Daily Activities, simply = sensations



much love!

:) It does, doesn't it? Focuses you right in on DE.

No need to quote the entire exercise just quote the question you're answering, ok?

Now try this:

Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Loving,

thank you. I am going to post what I wrote (although I know that is not necessary and I know that I can do both this task and the other throughout the day)

first 10 mins

Im hearing a voice

Im hearing cars

Im feeling my fingers on the keyboard

I am typing this now

I see my glasses on my face

I see a microphone near my mouth

I feel my legs

My nose is cold

I see my emails

Im thinking about what is coming next

I see my hands

I see my hands adjust my glasses

I see my hands

I see my hands moving

I am movng my hands

I see a hair on my jumper

I feel that my belly is full of food

Im looking at two monitors

I am hearing a speaker speak

I am rocking my legs

I see my phone

Im rocking my legs again

I feel my cold nose

I hear construction work from outside

I feel an ache in my should / back

I feel my jaw is tense

I am looking around the room

I am trying to relieve my neck from tension

I am hearing a speaker speak.

I see emails

Im looking at emails

Im hearing a truck door slam

Im looking out the window

I am looking into the distance

I am trying these sentences

I saw the shadow of a moving bird

I hear someone blowing their nose

I see water in the cup shaking

I am making this desk move

I am rocking my legs again

I am hearing a Welsh Accent

I am thinking about dimming one of my monitors

I am dimming the monitor

I am now thinking about the time left

I am looking at the clock, there is 4 minutes left

I am scratching my face

I am smiling

I am seeing through my glasses

I am hearing a speaker speak.

I am cracking my fingers

I am scratching my leg

I am thinking about the topic of control

I am hearing coughing from another person

I am rubbing my face

I am feeling an itch that needs to be itched

I am itching the itch

I am thinking about control

I am feeling back / shoulder tension.

I am looking at the clock.

I am scrolling up and down in word

I am typing this texts

I am thinking about this task.

I am looking at the clock

I am trying to do this correctly

I am observing thoughts

I am looking into the future (thoughts)

I am writing but thinking about the next stage of this activity

I am thinking that I am not present .

I am noticing there is 2 minutes left.

I am moving my neck

I am rocking my legs

I am looking at the clock

I am scratching my leg

I am rocking my legs again

I am noticing my jaw is tight

I am feeling an itch on my leg

I am thinking about scratching my leg

I am scratching my leg.

I am looking at the clock.

I am deciding that I have finished this tasks.

__________________________________________________________

2nd 10 mins

Hearing a voice

Feeling tension

Clenching teeth

looking at LU forum to check if this is being done correctly

Looking at the clock

Hearing a voice

Moving of finger

Typing on keyboard

Rubbing nose

Feeling headphones on head

Feeling an itch

Looking out the window

Feeling sensation in the chest.

Scratching

Thinking about having a shower

Seeing a monitor

Seeing a banana

Seeing a phone

Feeling sensation in the face

Yawning

Adjusting glasses

Sneezing

Hearing a speaker speak

Feeling sensation in the chest

Looking at a screen

Fingers typing

Pressing keys

Switching between programmes on the computer

Swallowing

Moving the neck

Thinking about not wanting to be present.

Thinking about the tension in the neck

Feeling the sensation in the neck

Moving the beck

Looking at the clock

Switching between programmes,

Scratching the face

Rubbing beard

Hearing a voice

Thinking about attention

Reading things on a screen

Hearing a voice

Thinking about the voice

Blinking

More blinking

Clenching teeth

Thinking about free will

Hearing a speaker speak

Moving the neck

Pursing the lips

Moving the lips

Hearing a voice

Hearing a car

Looking around the room

Moving the neck

Touching the nose with fingers

Moving right leg up and down

Pressing a button on the computer

Hearing the word washing machine

Thinking about washing machines

Feeling an itch on the head

Itching the itch

Feeling tension in the neck

Thoughts about what to do about tension

Looking at the clock

Looking out the window

Scratching beard

Pressing buttons

Itching the ear

Hearing a voice

Feeling sensations in the legs

Clenching the teeth

Cracking fingers

Cracking fingers one by one

Thinking about what I am going to do after this

Looking at the clock

Thinking about awkward silences

Looking at the clock

Thinking time is up!

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

They both felt ridiculous and just a description (but very lagged and delayed) of what had just happened or happening.
but if I had to say...... the 2nd one seemed truer :- rocking the legs seems truer than I am rocking the legs because they were already rocking back and forth and then there was a noticing of that. it was already happening.

2. What is here without labels?

without labels there is colours, movements, sounds, tastes, etc.

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

labels do not affect experience . Itches were scratched regardless of thoughts or descrptions

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

the jaw was tense in both. and neck. I dont think i noticed any differnece . probably depends where I do it, i was at the home office desk, so maybe some work tension there. I might do it again in a more relaxing setting

all the best

Good observations. You've got it.

Yes, the second version is truer. It still has labels but it's am improvement.

Here is how to distinguish truth from lies.

We often lie every day & don't realize it.

For example, the grocery clerk asks, "How are you?" You reply, "I'm fine." While, yes. there is a sense in which we are always fine, even in the middle of suffering, at that moment, you were grieving the death of your dog, you had a slight sore throat & you had a headache, but you didn't feel like sharing all of that with the grocery clerk, so you lied, "I'm fine."

Also, it matters none at all how "distant" the remembered lie is. Besides the fact that time itself is fictional, a kind if lie, as we recall the lie it becomes present in this moment, as if it were happening now. This brings the body Sensation that accompanies lying.

Lies can be intentional or unintentional, conscious or unconscious, even so automatic that we ourselves are fooled.

The story of a separate "self" is a lie.

This is the lie you came here to see through. Therefore, it is helpful to notice the body Sensation of lying as one of the tools for finding the truth of no self.

You want to be in touch with body Sensations & able to clearly express them in words. This will help.

Lies are usually felt in the heart or solar plexus as a contraction that we may label as tight, heavy or tense.

In contrast, truth is usually expansive. We may call it loose, light or relaxed.

First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

Here we count anything, lies we think of as "big" or "small" that "matter" or don't "matter."

How are you? I'm fine. No, your knee hurts, but you don't feel like discussing it with the grocery clerk.

It's a lie. A seemingly "bigger" one will work better for this exercise.

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

What is found?

If you think the memory you used wasn't clear enough, find another one or lie to yourself right now, make something up.

1 + 1 = 14 is a lie.

I love eating worms is (probably) a lie.

Or call up a video of a lying politician & notice what Sensations arise as you listen.

I will give you a clue: it is not that peaceful Sensation you felt before when you omitted "I." (refers to an exercise I gave before this one)

Please report back with what body Sensations (not interpretations) you feel. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc.

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not the Sensation itself, for example.

Do you see that?

Loving,

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

What is found?

yes lying to parents about where I was one particular evening

Sensations found in the throat and face

Please report back with what body Sensations (not interpretations) you feel. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc.

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not the Sensation itself, for example.

Do you see that?

cold / numb sensation in the face and vibrating sensation on the throat.

yes i see that peaceful is an interpretation of sensations

best wishes

What Sensations do you find in your gut & heart?

Loving,

What Sensations do you find in your gut & heart?

yes a contraction in the heart, like its going inwards. Gut tingling.