The Gate

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
The self is an assumption. A thought, a belief, thats it. I think/assume/believe I am in control of my life: I make decisions, I chose my job, my husband, my life. Yet, when I look for this "controller of my life", it does not exist. I just find thoughts (words, images) and sensations.

What are you looking for at LU?
Guidance. Someone to point out my silly beliefs from a different angle. I see this constant dissatisfaction: wanting things to be different/not-wanting discomfort, seeking, hoping, pull/push in every moment. I just want to be OK with now. Peace, please. The end of seeking.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Guidance to get through the gateless gate, whatever it takes. I understand the concept of no-self. I see it when I look, but its sticky and the belief and feeling persists. There is clearly something blocking the view. Perhaps a guide can help me clear that?

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
A little bit of KI (Scott Kiloby's inquiry method), meditation (1x 10-day Goenka retreat), Vipassana noting here and there. High- and microdose Psychedelic journeys (does that count?). Watching Non-duality videos, reading books. Seeking my whole damn life (believing: "there must be something more!"). #eyeroll

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

Hi Marz,

Welcome to the forum.

My name is Lubo and I'll be happy to join you in this investigation if you are OK?
Do you have any questions or something you want to share with me?

I read your intro and this one pops-up:

I see this constant dissatisfaction: wanting things to be different/not-wanting discomfort, seeking, hoping, pull/push in every moment. I just want to be OK with now. Peace, please. The end of seeking.

I hear you. You are not alone in this.
Notice this dissatisfaction, meet it, look at it directly in its eyes.
And notice what is it, what wants?
Notice also what is behind it?

Love,
Lubo

Hi Lubo,
Thank you! I really appreciate the time & effort all the guides put into this, free of charge and with so much patience. It’s truly heart-warming and inspiring.
Now, jumping right in, with regards to the dissatisfaction –
It has diminished somewhat. Recently, there has been more of an OK-ness with how things are. There haven’t been any difficult life challenges to deal with lately however. Life is good and feelings of gratitude arise often. I know dissatisfaction is just a string of thoughts and doesn’t actually exist, not in my direct experience anyway. My "urgh!" subject line seems so dramatic now.

Do you have any questions or something you want to share with me?

During meditations or when doing self-inquiry, there are moments when the mind is really still and just being feels so good. A thought would come up: “is this it?” or “something should happen” “what next?” Off course, these are just thoughts, but I notice this expectation often.
Would you suggest that I just recognise the thoughts as being thoughts and stay in this still space or is that the time to do inquiry and ask “who is waiting for something to happen?” etc. Should I just be asking these inquiry questions as often as possible?

With gratitude, Marz

Hi dear Marz,
Thank you for your gratitude it is highly appreciated.

My "urgh!" subject line seems so dramatic now.

Oo, don't worry, exactly this "urgh!" makes me to write you.

Life is good and feelings of gratitude arise often.

Notice this image which you identify with - is an image of a something small and fragile, image of a little child which depends on the mercy of others and situations.
This image needs to be grateful to life in other way it will be punished and will feel guilty and shamed.
Notice this image and the whole story. Stay with it.
And notice the mehanisym which makes you small and powerless?
Let's see what happens when you trigger this mechanism - say out loud "I don't need to be grateful to life anymore, life needs to be grateful to me"
What happens ? What is the respond of the system?
Say it again and again until you feel your power and find that you no longer need this program "to be gratitude" for something which belongs to you.

I know dissatisfaction is just a string of thoughts and doesn’t actually exist

Notice this voice which says that your experience is wrong?
When dissatisfaction is coming this is what is experienced in this moment, no need to bypass it.
Meet it, find this program of dissatisfaction and notice what is the story?
Which identification/image this program protects?

During meditations or when doing self-inquiry, there are moments when the mind is really still and just being feels so good. A thought would come up: “is this it?” or “something should happen” “what next?” Off course, these are just thoughts, but I notice this expectation often.
Would you suggest that I just recognise the thoughts as being thoughts and stay in this still space or is that the time to do inquiry and ask “who is waiting for something to happen?” etc. Should I just be asking these inquiry questions as often as possible?

Nice questions.
Let's see expectation:
Does the truth a state where to abide?

The best question for me is to see "When I say "I" who says this, a person or something else?"
Does the person be found and located?
Am I a person or I am "I am-ness" ?
What is you own direct experience?

Please answer the questions in blue in your reply.

Thanks for your willingness to grow up.

Love and light,
Lubo

Let's see what happens when you trigger this mechanism - say out loud "I don't need to be grateful to life anymore, life needs to be grateful to me"
What happens ? What is the respond of the system?

Immediately images of my mom and me as a little child popped up. Then shame and sadness. There is definitely a lot of Christian conditioning here, being born a “sinner”, “lesser than”, the importance of being humble and grateful, yes.
At first, lots of resistance and tightness in belly and chest when saying "I don't need to be grateful to life anymore, life needs to be grateful to me”. I felt embarrassed saying it, but the more I said it, the easier it became, the tightness went away, replaced by confidence and feeling bigger, I guess. Life doesn’t need my gratitude anyway. Do I need life’s gratitude? Hmmmm, tightness again. The need to be appreciated, loved and accepted. It’s a big, old can of worms this: people pleasing, the belief that I must be a good, kind, happy, grateful, hardworking, helpful, humble person in order to be accepted and loved. A recurring pattern for sure.

Notice this voice which says that your experience is wrong? Meet it, find this program of dissatisfaction and notice what is the story?

It’s the voices of my mom and dad. Images of their faces, looking disapprovingly at me. Also, my brother’s voice, teasing and mocking me, laughing at my pain and sadness. Thoughts that I should be different. Shame. Thoughts: “there is something wrong with me.” “I’m not OK.” “I’m not loveable.” Lots of sadness and tears.

Which identification/image this program protects?

The image of me as a little girl. This feeling of not-OK-ness is protecting the little girl. It forces her to mould herself into a person that her parents could love. It is a survival mechanism - to receive love, acceptance and safety.

The best question for me is to see "When I say "I" who says this, a person or something else?"

It feels like a person who says “I”.

Does the person be found and located?

When looking, the person can’t be found. There are only images of my body and face coming up, memories, as well as sensations. None of those are the person. “I” is just a label, a word, that comes up. Nobody says it. But every time the thought “I” comes up, there is an assumption that the word refers to an actual somebody.

Am I a person or I am "I am-ness" ?

During meditation it feels more like an “I am-ness”. Right here, while typing, I feel like a person. This feeling “like a person” only starts crumbling a bit once I start looking at what is behind the “I” and then realises that nothing can be found.

What is you own direct experience?

Seeing (colours and shapes in room, hands typing, words appearing on screen), Hearing (cars passing by, wind in trees, noises from another room), feeling (sensations in body, pressure, coolness, heat), thoughts (labelling of experience, things to-do tomorrow). No self to be found when doing this direct experience exercise. Yet, it feels too unbelievable that this can be true.

Hi dear Marz,
Excellent work, thank you!

Immediately images of my mom and me as a little child popped up. Then shame and sadness. There is definitely a lot of Christian conditioning here, being born a “sinner”, “lesser than”, the importance of being humble and grateful, yes.

Yes, society brings a lot of trauma.
but they have not realised what the reality is, like small babies they believe their thoughts-fairy tales.
Notice, in order to find that there is no self, and there is no time, what do you need to do with all these stories about born sinner and etc?

Do I need life’s gratitude? Hmmmm, tightness again.

Notice this tightness to which story about identification sticks?
Find it and now you know what to do with this story :), do you?
Here it is more story to get rid of them

the belief that I must be a good, kind, happy, grateful, hardworking, helpful, humble person in order to be accepted and loved

:) look at this as fairy tale about Cinderella :) Does she exist? Where is this one which should be "good, kind, happy, grateful, hardworking, helpful, humble person ", show me the person? Not person's face or body but the exact person?

t’s the voices of my mom and dad. Images of their faces, looking disapprovingly at me. Also, my brother’s voice, teasing and mocking me, laughing at my pain and sadness. Thoughts that I should be different. Shame. Thoughts: “there is something wrong with me.” “I’m not OK.” “I’m not loveable.” Lots of sadness and tears.

Wow, wonderful. These are the core of the suffering. All these are virus-programs for auto-sabotage. All these voices, mom's, dad's, brother's, the little girl and voice of shame - notice that they are working by themselves?
Constant looping drama between virus programs.
Kick them all!
Say - "There is no little girl, there is no one hurt from brother, no one who has mother and father, there is no one shamed from anything, let's everyone see this which the shame try's to hide. "

I am with you.
Much love
Lubo

Thank you Lubo,
It was very helpful to see this shame-program. Whenever I am around other people, everything I do and say, is to avoid feeling this shame. So afraid that I won’t be liked or accepted, that I will be caught out as being “faulty” and not belonging. Also, I see now how strongly this shame is tied to spiritual seeking.

Notice, in order to find that there is no self, and there is no time, what do you need to do with all these stories about born sinner and etc?

Seeing the stories as just stories. When I break down and look at the words for instance “I am useless” or “I am a sinner”, they are silly, strange-looking scribbles, jibberish sounds. When seeing them as just stories, there is a release and relief of some sort.

Do I need life’s gratitude? Hmmmm, tightness again. Notice this tightness to which story about identification sticks?
Find it and now you know what to do with this story :), do you?

Yep, just a silly story again! Also, the tightness and shame just want to be felt. Non-resistance, right? Just feel it without resistance. Is that the answer!? 😉

the belief that I must be a good, kind, happy, grateful, hardworking, helpful, humble person in order to be accepted and loved
:) look at this as fairy tale about Cinderella :) Does she exist? Where is this one which should be "good, kind, happy, grateful, hardworking, helpful, humble person ", show me the person? Not person's face or body but the exact person?

Hehehehe, the person can’t be found. Just like Cinderella. I can see the walls, curtains, tv, plants, chair, carpet, fly swatter, remote control, hands, keyboard, laptop screen, legs….If I’m really here, I should be able to find myself easily too. But it still FEELS like I’m here. When asking “who is seeing all of this?” attention goes to the sensations in the body and face. Well, I can’t be “sensations”. Sensations are just something that is being felt. So then, who is the feeler? An image-memory of my face pops up. Well, it can’t be that either. Images/thoughts can’t feel!....and on and on....

These are the core of the suffering. All these are virus-programs for auto-sabotage. All these voices, mom's, dad's, brother's, the little girl and voice of shame - notice that they are working by themselves?

Yes, they are individual thoughts (auditory or visually) popping up, one by one and then creating this story, like a movie. Off course, there are sensations involved which makes it feel like its MY story. Yet, there is no little girl, there is no brother, mother, father. Its insane how such a nonsense-story had created so much suffering!!

You are such a gift, thank you.

Hi dear Marz,
You are doing very well!

It was very helpful to see this shame-program. Whenever I am around other people, everything I do and say, is to avoid feeling this shame.

Yes, exactly! Wonderful that you are able to see this.
Shame voice says "You should listen to me, to be my slave because in other way you will fill feeling named "awful shame".
But you already see that there is nothing scary to feel whatever is coming. isn't it?

For the programs you are just a food, they are not here to help you but to use you.
Ask shame - "Who is the boss I or you? Are you here to help me, to serve me?" and notice the answer?

Yep, just a silly story again! Also, the tightness and shame just want to be felt. Non-resistance, right? Just feel it without resistance. Is that the answer!? 😉

Yes!!!
Try this one "I am not ashamed from anything, let's everyone sees me, let's this part which is ashamed be seen from everyone"
And meet the shame, it will come with a rage because this program will die if you not feed it.
Fill all "dangerous" feelings and notice is someone die because of this ? :)

Hehehehe, the person can’t be found. Just like Cinderella.

LOL, :) Wonderful ! yes!

But it still FEELS like I’m here.

Let's change "I am here" with "here" because in other way it will sound like there is someone "I" which arrives "here" = 2, but Nondual, No2 points something different.
So, are you agree to be just Here?
Now notice instead "Who is here", "What is here?" see with this new "eyes" is there "who"?

When asking “who is seeing all of this?” attention goes to the sensations in the body and face

Now change this question with this new understanding, No who :), no seeing, what left from the question?
Yes, there is only "all this" :)
Does the body and face see or there are body and face?
Is there "who" in the body and face?

Much love
Lubo

Hi Lubo,
Thanks for the encouragement and your infinite patience!

But you already see that there is nothing scary to feel whatever is coming. isn't it?

Absolutely, yes! It is really just another flavour of sensation. One that doesn’t taste that good, but won’t kill me.
Over the last 2 days I’ve been bringing up some childhood memories with shame attached to it. I just sat and felt these emotions. This seemed to have “softened” some of these memories. It seems however that this healing-emotions-process could be endless. Like it might take me a lifetime to dig through and neutralise all of this. From your experience would you say this clean-up process is needed before realisation can happen? Are these unprocessed material in the body what is standing in the way?

Ask shame - "Who is the boss I or you? Are you here to help me, to serve me?" and notice the answer?

It pretends to help me (“I keep you safe”, it says), but off course the little girl who needs protection is not here anymore.

Fill all "dangerous" feelings and notice is someone die because of this ? :)

Hahahaha! So far I haven’t come across any that could kill me.

Let's change "I am here" with "here" because in other way it will sound like there is someone "I" which arrives "here" = 2, but Nondual, No2 points something different.
So, are you agree to be just Here?

Yes, by saying just “here” it feels more expansive, open and true.

Now notice instead "Who is here", "What is here?" see with this new "eyes" is there "who"?

When feeling this openness, there is no “who”. Just lots of sensations and sounds coming and going, like vibrations, within this openness.

Now change this question “who is seeing all of this?” with this new understanding, No who :), no seeing, what left from the question?
Yes, there is only "all this" :)

This is so beautifully put, the breaking down of that sentence! And all that remains is “all this”. No “who” doing anything. Aaaah.

Does the body and face see or there are body and face?

Just body and face. Body also doesn’t do the feeling. There is only feeling.

Is there "who" in the body and face?

No "who" found behind body or face. Just body and face. Its so simple, yet the mind keeps trying to make it complicated. It's like "I get it, but I dont GET IT".

Hi dear Marz,

From your experience would you say this clean-up process is needed before realisation can happen? Are these unprocessed material in the body what is standing in the way?

Cleaning may help yes, but the problem is that the "I" is the problem, there is no person traumatised, there is no person with problems. Cleaning will be endless because the identification whit "I clean" is here and more things will stick.
You can notice that here in your investigation we are dealing with what's coming and you are doing very well.
Focus on the main goal, seeing trough "me" illusion.

It pretends to help me (“I keep you safe”, it says), but off course the little girl who needs protection is not here anymore.

OK. Notice who else is here, who needs protection?

Yes, by saying just “here” it feels more expansive, open and true.

Wonderfull. Say loudly "There is only freedom. No one is injured. No one is limited"

No “who” doing anything. Aaaah.

:) Yes. Notice this childish belief that there is someone in the body?
And also notice thoughts which claim that there is a person which is doing, which is a doer, somewhere in the body and rules the body from its secret place.
Is there a doer, where exactly?

It's like "I get it, but I dont GET IT".

Yes, I know. Say to mind "You who doesn't get it is imagination"
What is coming?

Much love
Lubo

Hi Lubo,

Lots of frustration coming up at the moment and thoughts that this is such bullshit. Anger, then thoughts "You don't need this crap. You're going around in circles anyway. This could go on for EVERRR". I guess it could be a good sign, because something feels threatened and pulling out the big guns...
Just feel like I want to scream though.

Anyway, I will NOT give up. So here we go again!

OK. Notice who else is here, who needs protection?

Nobody else is here. Nobody else needs protection. It’s so damn frustrating!! It’s so obvious, yet the misidentification keeps happening.

Yes. Notice this childish belief that there is someone in the body?

It is kinda childish, right? The belief in Santa Claus was easy to let go of. The belief in a white-bearded god up in the clouds were easy to let go of. This belief in a “me” is so sticky!

And also notice thoughts which claim that there is a person which is doing, which is a doer, somewhere in the body and rules the body from its secret place.
Is there a doer, where exactly?

In this present moment, no doer can be found. The body automatically knows what to do: Hand scratches itch, types letters, props pillow behind back when uncomfortable. Not much different than the daddy-long-legs spider in the corner of the room: it watches mosquito, charges forward when mosquito comes near. Waits quietly for its next target. The human body is the same. It doesn’t need a doer, a person in control. Only thoughts (of past and future) reference a “doer”. But these are just thoughts. It comes up, poof, gone.
Unfortunately, the majority of the day my attention is NOT on this present moment. Attention constantly gets pulled to thoughts of past and future and then this misunderstanding/ misidentification happens over and over and over.

Yes, I know. Say to mind "You who doesn't get it is imagination"
What is coming?

When saying this the mind-chatter quiets down a bit, the frustration, fear and craving subsides (a bit) and the experience become more peaceful and expansive.

Thank you, lots of love,
Marz

Hi dear Marz,
Let's look fear first:

Yes, I know. Say to mind "You who doesn't get it is imagination"
What is coming?

When saying this the mind-chatter quiets down a bit, the frustration, fear and craving subsides (a bit) and the experience become more peaceful and expansive.

Notice the fear, it is here but notice also that there is nothing scary or?
There is no person even now and what will let go are only limitationс, heaviness and burdens from the story about me.
Do you need this fear to protect you? Can you pass trough it, check?
Is there real tiger in the room? :)
Can you say to fear "O my dear, thank you for protection but I wont continue, I am not afraid, I am going to see what is behind you, I am ready to find what is the truth which you protect to not be seen!"

Lots of frustration coming up at the moment and thoughts that this is such bullshit. Anger, then thoughts "You don't need this crap. You're going around in circles anyway. This could go on for EVERRR". I guess it could be a good sign, because something feels threatened and pulling out the big guns...
Just feel like I want to scream though.

Yes, this is wonderful sign, this is mom&dad&baby program, contracted energy.
Go straight for it. Meet it investigate it:
- What it is look like?
- What is it made of?
Stay with it until it disappear.
And notice what is behind it? What is there under protection?

It is kinda childish, right? The belief in Santa Claus was easy to let go of. The belief in a white-bearded god up in the clouds were easy to let go of. This belief in a “me” is so sticky!

Yes, it is sticky :)
The only way is trough it - look at it with a loving compassion until it dissolves.
And again, look behind it what is This?
All this story about a me is real or?
Without the story about a me, what is here?

Much love
Lubo

Hi Lubo!
This ball of tight fear in my upper tummy has been very noticeable the last few days. My typical reaction to this fear/anxiety would usually be to retreat into thoughts, but today at work and while driving I made an effort to keep some attention on this sensation and just feel it. The tightness became quite untroublesome and eventually quite enjoyable!

Notice the fear, it is here but notice also that there is nothing scary or?

Absolutely not! There is nothing to be scared of. No need to avoid or ignore it.

Do you need this fear to protect you?

Nah, protect from what, anyway? What is there to fear?

Can you pass trough it, check?

I inspected this tight ball like detective Poirot. To feel where it starts and where it ends. I felt around it and felt through it. It doesn’t seem to go away or ease much, but that’s OK.

Yes, this is wonderful sign, this is mom&dad&baby program, contracted energy.
Go straight for it. Meet it investigate it:
- What it is look like?

So true. Its mom, dad memories, their voices again.

- What is it made of?

A memory of dad who tells me in so many words that “I can’t do it”. “I have to be different if I want to be successful”. “Do something productive. Stop being lazy”. Anger at myself for not being different. Anger at my dad for not accepting me for who I am. Interesting: anger/frustration is tied to the same “I’m unlovable-story” where shame also comes up.

Stay with it until it disappear.
And notice what is behind it? What is there under protection?

There is nothing but thoughts and sensations. Nothing to protect.

The only way is trough it - look at it with a loving compassion until it dissolves.
And again, look behind it what is This?

I don’t know. This is lots of things coming and going: sounds, feelings, thoughts, heat, pulsing, colours, pain tightness…. What is behind it, is awareness.

All this story about a me is real or?

No, it’s not real. All that is real, is this, now. And in this, now, a me can’t be found.

Without the story about a me, what is here?

Just this. Stuff that is being experienced. Life happening.

You are good, Lubo! Thanks, you're making me cut through some bullshit for sure.

Hi Marz,
You did a wonderful work!

So true. Its mom, dad memories, their voices again.

This is the same everywhere. This is the main part of illusion all over the world.
Notice that this dad's program is connected to the image of a little girl - where identification is, can you see this?
Notice what identification comes when you look where this question points to - "What is Marz?"
Can you notice emotional ball and image where identification is?
Now notice without this identification is there a power in "dad's voice"?
-Is there an image where to stick?
-to whom to speak?
Notice what is to live without these two images?

Love
Lubo

Hi Lubo!

Notice that this dad's program is connected to the image of a little girl - where identification is, can you see this?

Yes, I see it.

Notice what identification comes when you look where this question points to - "What is Marz?"

Aaaah yes. Something that feels like it’s always been there over the years, stuck to Marz, is this tight, sad, ashamed feeling of being insignificant/wrong/unworthy. When I ask “What is Marz?”, then images pop up of memories at various ages: small girl, teenager, yesterday, 2 minutes ago. And connected to all of these images is this tight, sad, ashamed feeling of being insignificant/wrong/unworthy. That’s what I’ve been identifying with! Instead of identifying with “awareness/this/being” (which has always been there), I have identified with that yucky feeling (which has always been there).
Lots of tears: crying for the little girl who thought she was so weird, different and wrong. The teenager who thoughts she was so gross and disgusting, the university student who got drunk every night to get away from this feeling, the isolation and loneliness, the fear of intimacy etc etc.
A few tissues later…

Can you notice emotional ball and image where identification is?

OK, so the images and ball are still there. But now when I look at that memory of my dad, it is different. Its like we are acting and we are both in on “the game”. As if he winked at me and said beforehand “I have to say these mean things, OK, its just a play, I love you, aaand action!” Then the “mean act” gets played out. And we high five afterwards: “well done, good acting!” Hehehe, what a relief! Its so damn funny!

Now notice without this identification is there a power in "dad's voice"?

Hehehehe, its all a game, remember! 😊

-Is there an image where to stick?

There are still images, but they are not so sticky anymore…I think. Gosh, feeling a bit overwhelmed and still lots of emotions coming up. I might have to look at this again later when emotions have settled….

-to whom to speak?

Yep, there is still a “me” here! Nothing has shifted in that regard. Image of face connected to sensations of face. Various images popping up of different body parts, with sensations of those body parts - that feels like me.

Notice what is to live without these two images?

Not sure I quite understand this question. Would the one image refer to the image of the girl and the other image the one that is being taken as identity now?

Thank youuuu!