The Gate

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
We are All One. I know this on many levels BUT I am finding it hard to not get tied up in my adult son"s problems. Just the word BUT is felt inauthentic. I feel so close but that BUT gets me off balance

What are you looking for at LU?
Guidance in breaking down the barrier which is probably FEAR regarding my son. How I respond to him is felt to be my Achilles Heal. I used to think I was not afraid of anything...until I got to this point.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Pointers to help me unravel the Beliefs that are holding me back. I have the belief that I am his Mom and this Idenity has me caught up in a ball. Guilt for not preparing him for Life. Responsible for only having one child..I know these are crazy thoughts and if someone would tell me "my story " from their point I would see it all so differently.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have been actively reading and meditating on Awakening for a couple of years. I have been searching for many years.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

Hi,

Waking up may or may not help with your son. The Work of Byron Katie is a much better & more specific method for that.

www.thework.com


If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

This forum is about you, not your son. Please let me know what you want to do after reading the above.

Much love,

Hi,

Waking up may or may not help with your son. The Work of Byron Katie is a much better & more specific method for that.

www.thework.com


If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

This forum is about you, not your son. Please let me know what you want to do after reading the above.

Much love,

Thanks for your response.
I have done The Work with Byron Katie.
Seems like my intellect has the answers. I am trying to find a way to go deeper.

kathleen

The Work *can* take you all the way of you're questioning the thoughts of a "self." Don't answer with intellect. Do as Katie instructs & meditate on the question. See what answers arise.


This is my usual initial post:

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

One thing I want to make very clear up front is that with me, you must post every day. If you know yourself and your schedule are such that you cannot do this, tell me, "no," and someone else can guide you, please.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you know yourself to be a skeptical person, prone to doubt, I may not be the best guide for you. I never had any doubt. I can connect you with one of our other guides who did & who can guide you better than I.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

Much love,

I am so ready for this...thank you.
My name is Kathleen and I live in New Orleans, CST.

How will life change

?
It will be more peaceful.

How will you change ?

More present and less reactive. Become aware of reaction and realize it is only a thought.

What will be different?

There will not be an individual self to identify from.

What is missing?

This is where I am stumped.....You said if I had doubt to tell you.... I started to write I know in my head and my heart that this is all an illusion BUT,,,, and when I wrote this I saw DOUBT. Funny, because before I wrote this I didn't see doubt as an issue. Not sure where to go with this. I do not want to waste your time on me if you see my doubt as a problem for us.

Thanks
kathleen

Thank you, Kathleen. Let's just do some pointers & see how it goes.

Your expectations are somewhat reasonable, but SEEING could up end your world. Read Jed McKenna "Spiritual Enlightenment: The Damndest Thing" for some about that. Not necessary, just an example.

Now what comes up when is read that there is no self never has been and never will be?

Loving

Now what comes up when is read that there is no self never has been and never will be?

Hi

My initial reaction was Alleluia. I sense that this crazy life is just that..CRAZY. That person in my head is not ME and often I can stop and point that out to him ( no one ). I am tired of SEEKING because I know that all this seeking stuff is just thoughts and beliefs. When I look I do not find a self only awareness of what is going on. The other night I was telling a story to friends and said " the world according to Kathleen . Not necessarily the truth but only from my standpoint," they laughed but I meant it.

Never has been and Never will be is something I hadn't thought about before. I only know there is no self Now. Never has been and Never will be is something new to my brain. WOW... this is a pointer that seems to be a key . My mind is empty.
I always say, Alex, my son is my stumbling block. But if there never was a self then how can he be My stumbling block . I am going to have to unravel something here.


The Never will be is understood.

Rereading what I have written I see that the word I is necessary for communication.

Thanks for your pointing .

kathleen

This is great, Kathleen.

Never has been and Never will be is something I hadn't thought about before. I only know there is no self Now. Never has been and Never will be is something new to my brain. WOW... this is a pointer that seems to be a key . My mind is empty.
I always say, Alex, my son is my stumbling block. But if there never was a self then how can he be My stumbling block . I am going to have to unravel something here.

Good!

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.


Loving,

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

I guess I need more clarification. I understand the example. The answers are to come from the senses in the present moment and not the intellect.

Thanks so much,

kathleen




Loving,
~ Stacy

"In Japanese monasteries, they warn you not to come in."

~ Natalie Goldberg
"Thunder & Lightening: Cracking Open the Writer's Craft"

Okay, let's see if doing th is pointer helps to clarify.

Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order. EXACTLY.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

ost several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order. EXACTLY.

Hi

When I got up this morning I read your post and started immediately being present with everything. Feeling the phone, Hearing the workers above me, Seeing the fan above my head. I really sensed all these things in exquisite detail, being careful not to label but to experience. When I got up I paid attention to my steps, the heal touching the floor, the cool tile beneath my feet. I peeled an orange and slowly felt the rind under my fingers, heard the sound of the peeling being released from the fruit, smelling the sweet familiar smell of citrus. Thinking how pleasant this experience was. Continued doing this with my shower, brushing teeth, dressing.

Then I opened my computer and reread what you wrote and went into my HEAD..... Thouhgts, I have done this wrong, she wants it to be exactly like she wrote it...... Thought " am I trying to control this experience ".

Seeing a phone =image
Feeling a phone=sensation
Hearing people working above me=sound
Smelling the fruit= smell
Tasting the orange=taste
What a great experience=thought

Look forward to your reply,

Forever grateful,
kathleen

P

ost several of your own observations in a list *exactky* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order. EXACTLY

My computer is old and my computer skills are not great. I tried to quote in the previous email but it didn't come through.

You've got it. Those are correct. Keep in mind also that what matters is not correct answers but what happens while you are looking.

I generally prefer to see a lot more examples, but I think you've got it.

Now try this:


Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Loving,

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

1. I wouldn't say one was truer. The second was easier and more genuine. Maybe that means truer but the word doesn't seem to fit.

2.What is here without labels?

2. Seemed like less chatter in the mind. Deeper in the sensation than trying to put in a sentence. There was more of a flow without labels.

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

3. I would say it does both. Labels seem to restrict the experience. Energy is spent on describing something that really doesn't need to be described because it can just be experienced.

4. Did you notice any difference in the body ?

4. More relaxed with the second one.