The Gate

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
Theres no "Me" entity inside this body, things happens by itself without manager.

What are you looking for at LU?
Looking for guidance to see thruth permanently.
Looking for guidance to see thruth permanently.
Looking for guidance to see thruth permanently.
Looking for guidance to see thruth permanently.
Thres nothing else im looking for but i have to type 200 characters.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Im hoping to awaken to the thruth of no self for good, couse i had awekenings before but mind always comes back to believing stories in my head. I did a lot of inquiring before but truth doesnt stick, maybe with guidance will be more clarity and more engagement from me.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
A lot of meditation for 3-4 years, kundalini awakening, awekenings from inquiries, psychadelics(5-meo-dmt).
I stopped seeking and do any practices when ego comes back after last awakening about 2 years ago, started inquiring again lately.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

How can the truth not be seen permanently? What untruth is being seen?

I guess by getting lost in mind chatter, and starting to believe the stories. I got pretty big self-esteem problem, coused mostly by my abusive alcoholic father. I dont have any positive narratives in my head, my minds goal is to torture me and to sabotage my life, my brother is seeing psychologist for many years now, but im not even able to open up to stranger.

I have a question, are you familiar with kundalini energy?
After one of my 3 awakenings(not counting 5-meo-dmt), i lived in complete bliss/extasy for 10 days(best time of my life), it was coused by kundalini energy, i wonder if it makes any difference to this process. My ultimate goal is not getting it back, i take whatever comes from this investigation. Last awekening last for about the month, i was ready to commit suicide but gave a last chance to inquiry, after 5 days of inquiring non stop iv seen the truth, after about 3 weeks or so mind started its torture and it was getting more and more loud, i was unable to ignore it, started to give it more and more attention, and awekening was eventually lost, thats why i dont believe in the statement from the book "Whats seen can never be unseen".
I didnt had that bliss like it was before but i was fine with it.

Are you sure you want to do this?
I keep waiting for a reply, everybody got replies but me, i see your last guide is from 2018 and it end up in the middle of nowhere so im sceptic, can i switch for someone whos gonna be more active please?

I was expecting an email notification to say that you had replied but haven't received one.

Vince has offered to take over. All the best.

Hey ripper, vince here. i will work with you to see if we can sort this..
Start by telling me what your experience of awakening was. (not why or how, but what was your experience)

vince

Ok, so first time i had awekening from reading Gateless Gatecrushers, it was short about half hour, body was doing everything by itself and it was oneness with no boundaries. 2nd was kundalini awekening, while meditating all of a sudden i felt very intense energy starts to emerge in the body, body becames extremely hot, i thought im gonna die, that my body is gonna explode from this, after that im feeling energy in my chackras, at the beginning pressure in 3rd eye was so strong it coused pain, but it stabilised over the years i guess, its not painful anymore but energy is still active. 3rd was just from asking Who i am wthout any real investigation, i was drowning in bliss for 10 days, it was obvious that it was coused by the energy. 3rd time was more subtle, i was pondering questions from Gateless Gatecrushers and Liberation Unleashed books for 5 days all day long very intenesly, it didnt make any sense to continue, it was clear as day that theres no "I", body was more relaxed, there was kind of spaciousness and a lot less thoughts, but my mind started its torture slowly but surely and about 3-4 weeks later i was depressed again and awekening was completely gone. I lost hope that its possible for me permanently and didnt touch spirituality for 2 years, now im back at again, becouse of suffering obviously, didnt try guidance so i have little bit of hope that maybe its gonna work.

First one was the clearest, with last one i didnt experience that pure oneness like first time, i wasnt sure if this is it, but idea to continue to look for something that isnt there was ridicolous to me so i stopped inquiry.

So if the purpose of your question is to check my expectations, i dont expect to be in bliss or state of oneness all the time, eperiencing life like in my last awekening is completely fine by me, when life wasnt so "heavy" as it is in dreamland.

Ok Ripper, yes, i was interested in your expectations.
Being awake isn't a state. Some of what you experienced is a state. That is, it's a temporary experience.
Being awake is recognizing the difference between what is actual and what is conceptual. ..and responding appropriately.

it was clear as day that theres no "I", body was more relaxed, there was kind of spaciousness and a lot less thoughts,

Why do you think that the body was more relaxed? ..why there was a lot less thoughts?
(please use the quote function to answer the questions)

my mind started its torture slowly but surely

Were you just a witness to this or did you fight it?

i was depressed again

Describe this state?

I lost hope that its possible for me

Did/do you recognize the stories that abounded at that time?

becouse of suffering obviously

How does this suffering manifest?

vince

Thank you for a fast response.

Why do you think that the body was more relaxed? ..why there was a lot less thoughts?

I was more detached form the mind, body was more relaxed couse stories wasnt believed instantly, they had less significance.
Why it was less thought in general i have no idea, i thought its the result of awekening, i was happy they are less of them and didnt question why. I guess i was in somewhat halfass awekening state, "I" wasnt seen as real so they had less grip. I came to the conclusion later that "I" hide itself for a bit couse it was close to completely dissapearing, that probably doesnt make much sense but that how it felt like.

Were you just a witness to this or did you fight it?

Great question, i started to get so lost in minds "attacks" that i didn even noticed, but yes, i started resisting heavily.

Describe this state?

Hoplesness, getting mad at the world and god for my life experiences, and seeing future being same or worst.
Lack of energy to do anythng, cluster of negative emotions, contraction in the body, anxiety.

Did/do you recognize the stories that abounded at that time?

Started with usual self esteem stories, then nobody loves me and loneliness stories, future projections stories, after awakening starts to fade away "Staying awake is impossible with my sick mind and life situation" story.

How does this suffering manifest?

Basicly the same as i described about depresion.

'evening Ripper,

Why do you think that the body was more relaxed?

I was more detached form the mind, body was more relaxed 'cause stories weren't believed instantly, they had less significance.

Yes, exactly. i put thoughts into 3 main categories. 1. useful thoughts (about 5%) 2. entertaining thoughts (another 5%) and 3. waste of space thoughts. Not to be engaged with.
Can you stop your thoughts?

Why it was less thought in general i have no idea,

Good answer.
Do you think that you actually had less thoughts? ..or do you think that you just didn't pay attention to them as much?

yes, i started resisting heavily.

If you think of resisting now, how does the body react?

Describe this state?

Hoplesness, getting mad at the world and god for my life experiences, and seeing future being same or worst.

Can you see how there must have been stories about how hopeless it was?
Stories about the future?
Can you see how these stories provoke frustration and anger?

awakening starts to fade away

Do you realize that especially in the beginning that old habits can make it seem that awakening has faded? Geez, after 11 years, i lost it yesterday - big time.
Awakening is just a beginning. There is nothing finished about it. i expect to be 'working' in this while ever i'm alive.

with love

vince

Good evening.
This probably going to be long process, if you have spare minute or 2 during they day to type on your phone, even one question is fine to work with, im in for as often as you can.
Im working with liberation unleashed app also, and a little bit of videos form Ilona and Fred Davies, im not sure if its ok.
English is not my native language so it will be mistakes but i thing is good enough to communicate.

Can you stop your thoughts?

No, thats actually clearset aspect of the inquiry for me, no need to question this, its obvious im not attacking myself constantly with this terrible thoughts, they appear by themselfs.

Do you think that you actually had less thoughts? ..or do you think that you just didn't pay attention to them as much

I actually thought about it yesterday, probably it was a little bit less thought, not a lot, i was getting lost in stories a lot less, you are absolutely right, it just felt like theres a lot less.

If you think of resisting now, how does the body react?

Not much of a reaction, maybe a little bit uneasy if its the right word.

Can you see how there must have been stories about how hopeless it was?
Stories about the future?
Can you see how these stories provoke frustration and anger?

Yes, actuality is bad for me, im very far from happiness, but mind makes it much worse.
Thats obvious that they provoke a lot of strong negative emotions.
I think it should be easier to be detached from thoughts about the future, than the past, couse nothing really happened yet, but somehow theres no difference, they have same amount of weight.

Do you realize that especially in the beginning that old habits can make it seem that awakening has faded? Geez, after 11 years, i lost it yesterday - big time.
Awakening is just a beginning. There is nothing finished about it. i expect to be 'working' in this while ever i'm alive.

Yeas, but i read in Ilona's book that after truth is seen, old habits starts to fade away, that coused even more frustration when mind started its assault again, nothing was gone after this 3-4 weeks, it looked like ego hides for a bit, recharged its batteries and goes on the rampage with more intensity than usual.

Good evening Ripper,

This probably going to be long process,

Neither of us knows how long we will be doing this, it's not a linear process.
The story here is that when the conditions necessary for a 'shift' are in place, then it will happen. How many 'shifts' we require depends on how strongly conditioned you are to old habits. ..anyway, best not to have expectations. ..at least not to cultivate them.

Im working with liberation unleashed app also, and a little bit of videos form Ilona and Fred Davies, im not sure if its ok.

i don't mind if you keep doing that, but definitely bring here anything that comes up from that. (and don't do anything else)
There is a case for doing this exclusively, so let's keep our options open.

English is not my native language so it will be mistakes but i thing is good enough to communicate.

Yes, if you don't know any words that i use, either look them up or ask me. We will develop good communications with practise.

Can you stop your thoughts?

they appear by themselfs.

Excellent! This is one big step. A hurdle that is already done.
Now the next question is to be answered from observation. Is it possible not to engage with a particular thought?
To test this, watch a thought arise and instead of going with whatever the content of it is, ignore it and bring your attention to what sensations are most active in the body. Do this several times. Watch a thought arise then ignore it and look for sensations.
How did you go?

I actually thought about it yesterday, probably it was a little bit less thought, not a lot, i was getting lost in stories a lot less, you are absolutely right, it just felt like theres a lot less.

Ok. Sometimes when i ask a question, it's not for an answer. It's to get you to look in a certain way.
In this case, it doesn't matte if there were less thougths or you were paying less attention to them. What matters is that you develop the ability to see what is happening without getting immersed in their content, in what the thoughts are about.

how does the body react?

Not much of a reaction, maybe a little bit uneasy if its the right word.

Hmm, this tells me a little about the reaction, but i want you to be able to describe the specific sensations.
Was it a contraction in the belly or chest? ..or something else?

actuality is bad for me,

Can you recognize this as a story about somthing?

im very far from happiness,

Can you describe that happiness?

but mind makes it much worse.

How does it do this?

thoughts about the future, than the past, couse nothing really happened yet, but somehow theres no difference, they have same amount of weight.

Yes. If you imagine soemthing, the brain can't distinguish between that and the actual thing happening.
Now, it's easy to see that anything in the future is only imagination, but can you see that anything that happened in the past is also just memory/imagination?
..and consider that it has already happened, so can't be changed.
So what are your choices. A. tell yourself stories about how it should have been different. ..or B. Accept it as finished and be relaxed enough to learn from it?

Yeas, but i read in Ilona's book that after truth is seen, old habits starts to fade away,

I'm glad that you mentioned this. EVERYBODY IS UNIQUE.
This is why you bring things here. i have worked with over a hundred seekers since starting to guide here 11 years ago, and i've got to tell you that every one of them was different.
YOU MUST NOT COMPARE yourself with anybody. We are all unique.

it looked like ego hides for a bit, recharged its batteries and goes on the rampage with more intensity than usual.

Firstly, i'm not a fan of the word ego. It means different things to everybody. ..but i get what you mean.
To be more accurate, i would phrase it differently. i would say that "for a while old habits were in the background, but then (for whatever reason) they reasserted themselves. ..and it was a shock."


with love

vince

Neither of us knows how long we will be doing this, it's not a linear process.
The story here is that when the conditions necessary for a 'shift' are in place, then it will happen. How many 'shifts' we require depends on how strongly conditioned you are to old habits. ..anyway, best not to have expectations. ..at least not to cultivate them.

Thats good to know that sometimes shifts are required more than few times, probably will save me for the future, couse i dont expect divine states and stuff like that, but i was expecting one shift and be done with it.

i don't mind if you keep doing that, but definitely bring here anything that comes up from that. (and don't do anything else)
There is a case for doing this exclusively, so let's keep our options open.

I jut use them to look, if theres perciever, is there manager, doer, is there separation etc, im not gonna do work with thoughts, expectations, emotions and stuff like that, that i will trust your questions, and work with them.

Hmm, this tells me a little about the reaction, but i want you to be able to describe the specific sensations.
Was it a contraction in the belly or chest? ..or something else?

In the belly, i dont recall negative emotions manifest anywhere else in the body, it always stomach.

Can you recognize this as a story about somthing?

This is the tough part for me, i had moments of recognition when i was doing spiritual work, but thoughs keep arising and im lost again, recognition is not happening anymore since i stopped seeking, but im gonna try to be more aware of them and recognize as often as i can.

Can you describe that happiness?

To me will be mostly freedom from my mind, also having family, less stress, no depression.

How does it do this?

Mostly be repetition, sometimes i have loops of negative thoughs all day long, a lot of suicidal thoughts couse my mind dont have capability of positive thinking, its torturing me all day long and im thinking that only way to escape this is death.

Now, it's easy to see that anything in the future is only imagination, but can you see that anything that happened in the past is also just memory/imagination?
..and consider that it has already happened, so can't be changed.
So what are your choices. A. tell yourself stories about how it should have been different. ..or B. Accept it as finished and be relaxed enough to learn from it?

I would like option B, but im not telling this stories, im not choosing here what to tell myself, they just happen and awareness gives them attention, im trying to ingnore them, seeing just as stories, but as i said loops are endless and once im in im lost completely and thoughts of recognition are nowhere to be found, they dont pop up like "Oh, i should recognize it as a story".

'm glad that you mentioned this. EVERYBODY IS UNIQUE.
This is why you bring things here. i have worked with over a hundred seekers since starting to guide here 11 years ago, and i've got to tell you that every one of them was different.
YOU MUST NOT COMPARE yourself with anybody. We are all unique.

Ok, i accept now that its not going to be like awakening occurs and now im gonna have all benefits immedietly.

Firstly, i'm not a fan of the word ego. It means different things to everybody. ..but i get what you mean.
To be more accurate, i would phrase it differently. i would say that "for a while old habits were in the background, but then (for whatever reason) they reasserted themselves. ..and it was a shock."

Ok, get it, Ego is just ba concept, and whats actually happen is stories starts to piling up.

Excellent! This is one big step. A hurdle that is already done.
Now the next question is to be answered from observation. Is it possible not to engage with a particular thought?
To test this, watch a thought arise and instead of going with whatever the content of it is, ignore it and bring your attention to what sensations are most active in the body. Do this several times. Watch a thought arise then ignore it and look for sensations.
How did you go?

I can tell you right now that its possible, but problem is i dont think its possible often enough to stop sufferring becouse of it. Im gonna try to practice this and report how it goes.

Thank You.