So many different glimpses, so little shifts

[luxapro]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this? That this self is a mental construct that the real "I"ness gives reality to by identifying with. It's in mental images and chatter that unconsciously reflect reality that's taken too be real.

What are you looking for at LU? I'm looking to wake up. I want an end to the seeking. I want to get rid of this fake self that's suffering my life problems etc that I know aren't real. I want to be free and experienece reality for what it truly is.

What do you expect from a guided conversation? I have 0 expectations, what I wish for is some pointers in practice that can actually help me, maybe my doubting self also wants clarity and help from something that it can trust to be real and therefore not wasting time.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry? I've been practicing for about 2 years now, started with rupert spira awareness stuff, then mahasi noting, then some vajrayana stuff for a while and now I've been inquiring for 6 months now. I've had a few different ways of inquiring: looking for the sense of self, looking for what's aware, looking into the nature of thoughts etc.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

[luxapro]

More specifically, the inquiry has been asking who am I / what am I and I feel like the practice has been pretty good at getting to direct experience, however, there's always been "something" that I've chased whether it's awakening, awareness, self, meness etc.

I've read some of the quotes and they seem to turn it pretty conceptual pretty quick, or rather that the mind gets excited about them and is like "ooh let's do this now".

Yesterday it feels like the mind for the first time saw that it's identifying with this part of itself that's just a part and then that part + the other parts that come up sort oof wrestle with each other. It was funny but then it got too exciting and thoughts about what happened just came on non-stop

[luxapro]

And today, it feels like I found this place that's nowhere specific but feels like the source & the background of everything, me, the world and in that place, thoughts and experiences don't really grasp anything. I feel like I'll stay there for some time. It's there all the time.

[luxapro]

For the past few days I've been solely focused on the liberation unleashed book and the app. On Friday, all of my basic social inhibitions just vanished (but came back the next day) It was so much fun, and I also sort of understood how to actually look. Like it's not that you're trying to find a self, but rather just looking instead of thinking there's a self somewhere hidden. The mindset shift was that it's all in plain sight. Like there's the feeling of the foot, then sometimes there's the feeling of a self, but you can't find a specific self that's there.

[Ilona]

Hi Luxapro,

Welcome to the forum. It’s amazing that that you saw while waiting for a guide. Here I am, we can have a chat.
Tell me more, what do you notice? What’s different? What’s same?

Looking forward to our conversation.

[luxapro]

Hey Ilona! Thank you for the quick reply, really appreciate it. :)

Unfortunately, everything is the same again. Nothing is different. I'm struggling with too many things to focus on and not knowing what is the most important thing to look at actually.

I've noticed through and through again that the fear part of the whole process doesn't really compute. I can't spike any fear by thinking about the possibility that there is no self.

[Ilona]

It’s not necessary for the fear to show up. You see what you see and that’s exactly enough.
What did you expect that would change? Make a list of all that you think should look or feel or be different. And what you want to be different. Take your time and reply to me tomorrow.
So for now focus on expectations :)
With love.

[luxapro]

Thank you! Will do, enjoy your day :)

[luxapro]

Hey, here's a list of the things that came up, the general gist of it is that there's a big desire to wake up no matter what, even if there's no exact knowing of what it actually is. It's like I don't seem to care about what it actually is, I just need it done. :D

I feel like this is a LONG list. I just started writing and didn’t stop for like 40 minutes, the answers just came and fast.

- Perception to change, ever since I’ve started, I’ve had this wanting to feel like the universe, to have a perceptual shift where my sense of self wouldn’t be small.
- Perceptual shifts in general are what I expect and hope for. I think it’s like something fresh and “wow” that I want.
- I expect thoughts to feel light and irrelevant, like there’s no investment and involvement in them.
- I want the feeling to be the one thinking the thought to go away, like I want to not feel like the thinker of thought where it really feels like it’s talking about me and my life. I want less friction with thoughts.
- Suffering to stop, I’ve accepted the possibility that it’s not going to stop but even a relief would be amazing. The freedom of being thrown around by stupid mental stories and worries that go on and on, even subtly every day.
- I want to lose that investment to the stories
- This might not even be related to the “end-goal” but I want to quit having this shiny object syndrome where I hop off of one thing to the next. I want to trust THIS process.
- Doubting to be put to rest, like the feeling of is this it or not, the not knowing.
- I expect the seeking to end.
- I somehow think awakening is like the thing I need to “get” before I can go pursue anything else.
- I expect to have more clarity and enjoyment in just living, I want to escape the need to have financial success. It used to drive me and now that it doesn’t, it feels like I’m in an in between world, like getting the worst of both worlds (materialistic and the opposite of that, being cool with what I have)
- I somehow expect to feel special, I can’t really put it to words but there’s this idea that later on I’ll be like special because I did this when other people start to pick up on awakening. (Pretty funny isn’t it? XD)
- Social anxiety to lessen, and now that I’ve experienced that for a day, it felt so freeing. Not that I had a lot lot but the difference was drastic.
- I want to feel like someone special because of it. Like I have an effect on people.
- I want this to help reduce my addictions.
- I’m expecting this to remove the center of experience that’s currently all unclear and fuzzy feeling (not in a good way)
- I want to get rid of the worrying about my life and how it turns out.
- TRUTH, I expect to know what’s what.
- I feel like this is a reason to why I do this but I don’t want to live like this. If that makes sense.
- I expect things to fundamentally change. I can’t exactly put into words how but awakening feels like this thing I chase to fix my life and then, after awakening, I can chop wood and carry water.
- I expect that I can be more free and natural when talking to people, in all sorts of conversations.
- I expect to be able to help others wake up because for some reason I feel like I’m special in that way.
- I expect there to be a lightness in everything, like things would feel lighter.
- I expect to be able to help my brother with his suffering better.
- I expect to trust my actions and life more, where I don’t have to worry about things cause I’d give my “free-will” to the universe.
- I feel like I want it but also that I don’t know what it is. I just know I want it.
- I expect that I can be (to others) more free, more agile, more relaxed.
- I expect to be like a little child, enjoy silly things etc.
- I expect my life to change, not in it’s content but in how it’s lived. I want to be ok with life.
- I’m looking for an effortlessness in everything, like I wouldn’t have to do anything anymore.
- I want the struggling and the need to figure this awakening thing out to end. But I can’t stop before it’s done. So I want it done.
- I expect this to also change how I act and do things, and therefore also help me create wealth.
- I expect this feeling that when this is done, I don’t have to do anything anymore, like this is the ultimate doing. Life will do me and enjoy it whatever it is.
- I feel like I want to take a shortcut to happiness but also I know that happiness isn’t derived from external things as much, and therefore this is the perfect shortcut but also not since I'd be "getting it"
- I expect to see more attachments and let them go
- I expect it to help in my relationships so that I’m not that needy
- I want it to give me security in non-security, I want to get rid of the need for security
- I want to experience things ”differently”
- I expect to have this feeling of pride that I’ve done this, I at least believe I can see through this but it’s still there.
- And finally, I kind of don’t know what to expect as well, but somehow still know that I HAVE TO go there, it’s an absolute must.
- And I don’t put these expectations on a pedestal, seeing through the illusion is what I want, even if it means I won’t get these things that I seem to hope for

There are some fears that aren’t related to exactly losing my identity but rather to the whole process, I expect to put these fears to rest:

- I fear that I won’t get there sometimes, It’s almost like a social fear like I’m not good enough and I can’t do it. I fear that it’s outside of my hands and for some reason I won’t wake up. I fear that I can’t penetrate the illusion ever, and this causes a lot of struggle.
- I fear I’ll struggle with this forever and I want to END that struggle for good.
- I fear I’ll be stuck with the “worst of both worlds” thing I mentioned earlier. Like I won’t be successful in materialistic things but also I won’t be successful in this awakening / truth thing, and thus I’ll know nothing will make me happy and I don’t have the motivation to do anything yet I still struggle because it really would make me happier than just being a deadbeat. It’s like I fear that if I put in too much time to this, I’ll lose my drive to do things and if it doesn’t work out, I’ll be left with a shitty life which makes the suffering even more unbearable. Regret and failure.

So, instead of editing this, I just put it all there. Hope this is what was meant thank you. :)

[luxapro]

Another thing I've noticed is that I seem to be a bit impatient, I sort of want to push through this step fast and get to the "good stuff" as fast as possible. It feels like this is just a necessary step that I need to take care of quick.

I've read the book section of this step and understand how I can just let go of the expectations and be with THIS instead, it's not like I've "done" that already but if the expectations arise, I know that I can just be with what is and be ok. I've seen how expectations get in the way and also that I want to let go of them, which is also an expectation, a desire.

[luxapro]

But in general, expectations are like the machine that creates a big part of my own suffering. Whether it's in golf, especially in relationships, then work, meditation etc. I can also see and notice when they arise better now, maybe because I've now remembered the importance of noticing them as such big hindrances.

[luxapro]

I notice I'm also HOPING you'd answer these messages quicker so that I can move quicker and wake up quicker and that you'd give me the steps needed to do this etc. It's a machine that's really not in sync with reality.

[Ilona]

Wow, what a list! Thank you for sharing honestly and openly.
The only expectation there that is true- the seeking will end. All the rest is not true. It’s not what mind imagines at all. And all these expectations are in a way of seeing clearly. So the first thing is to let them go! It’s not what you think! It is something much simpler and ordinary.

I noticed you mentioned desire to feel special. That’s something to explore. Because you are not special and you won’t become special. You are unique. That’s a given. Every form is unique. That does not change. But wanting to be special is all about being above, better, more. Drop that. You can only be what you already are and that’s nothing special.

Well, what is there that wants all these expectations to be true? I mean, what is behind them?

How do you know that these are yours? Maybe you learned them? Take a look.


Did you believe in Santa when you were a kid? If so, do you remember it was such a magic, a mystery, and then one day you realise that Santa is not real.

What changed? Did Christmas change? Did your character change? Did Santa change? Or was it a simple drop of a belief?

Explore this example and see how it fits in this self- noself thing. This self is just like Santa- a magical fictional entity. Does it really exist?


Write after you took time to explore.
With love.

[Ilona]

I see you wrote more.
There is no rush. There is no next moment, better moment or anywhere else to get to. You hope to wake up, but waking up equals to finishing hope. It’s hopeless to try to wake up. See, there is no one here to wake up. And that is what we call waking up. :)

[luxapro]

Thank you! Let's see what's going on :)