The Gate

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand that there are no individuals, but only one energy that is appearing as everything. There is no person to have free will and choice, it’s just what is appearing to happen. The individual is a dream/illusion, it takes credit for being the doer and thinker. Everything is the absolute, the knowing energy hides the aliveness of what is.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking for a guide to help point me to the freedom that already is. I am looking for someone who could point out something that I could be avoiding. For example emotions and limiting beliefs. I am ultimately looking for a release from the feeling of separation.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect that I will be given pointers that will help lead me to liberation. I am willing to do whatever the guide needs me to do. I have tried everything and nothing has brought be lasting fulfillment.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
My experience with spirituality has been 2 years. I have done meditation, celibacy, headstands, qigong and many other practices. I had a glimpse of the aliveness of everything, it felt like I woke up from a dream. Everything was stunning and at the time I didn’t know what it was. The individual came back and ever since then I’ve wanted to get back to that because for the first time in my life I was free. I also had an experience of feeling like everyone is myself, that I am the eternal awareness and everything arises within the awareness.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

Hi Eli,

Hello, my name is Trisha and I can be your guide here, if you wish.


As a guide to your process of seeing that there is no separate self, I will support and empower you to do your own experiential search.

I will give you questions and exercises, we call pointers, that will help you to investigate and LOOK for yourself. It is only through this kind of Direct or Actual Experience that the not Existence of a Separate Self can be seen: smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and noticing of thoughts arising.

Most probably you have searched before coming here. This search was thinking, reading, listening to others, watching videos and so on. All this did not take you to seeing it for yourself. Right?


Before we start this process, here is some important information:


This is your process, so please answer with total honesty and only from your own experience.

For the time we are working together, please put aside all other “spiritual” material, being it books, audios, videos etc. If you have a meditation practice please continue, if you feel like doing so and if none of the above is involved.

To keep the process going, it is important that we communicate daily.
Depending on different time zones and the improbabilities of life, this is not always possible or sometimes you might need more time to investigate, but we will inform each other if this is the case.


Can you read the disclaimer and confirm reading and accepting?
Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/


Can you also read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” and confirm reading and accepting?
Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041



Something practical: There can be glitches on this site, so better you prepare your answers in some Text Program and then copy it into your answer posting.


And please can you learn how to use the Quotation Function?
Here is a link to a video with how to use it.


viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

And: It is helpful to use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."




OK, can we get started?


Expectations can stand in the way of seeing. We want both to be clear about yours.
Can you please answer the following questions?


How will life change?

How will you change?

What will be different?

What is missing?


During our process I put all my questions in blue.

Please answer the questions individually and putting each question in the quote function.
That makes it easier for us to work together.


My last questions: Should I call you Eli?

In what time zone are you in?


Love to you

Trisha

Hey Trisha,

Yes I have searched before coming here and nothing has led me to the direct seeing. I have had spiritual experiences and insights, but there still felt like there was something missing.

When you say put aside all spiritual material does that include uncompromising non-duality videos as well?

I have read the disclaimer, I accept.

I have read “ Liberation Unleashed is not” and I accept.

The quotation function link did not work for me, but i think I know how to answer the questions let me know if my responses are formatted wrong.

“How Life Will Change?”

Life will not change because there is already no separate self doing anything.

“How will You Change?”

I will not change because there is no I already. But i will be honest i have no idea and I really dont know what can happen.

“What Will Be Different?”

Nothing will be different. There could possibly be no resistance to what is anymore.

“What is missing”

Nothing is missing, but there seems to be a person that is here.

My last questions: “Should I call you Eli?”

yes call me Eli

“In what time zone are you in”

Atlantic Standard Time


Much Love, Eli

Hi Eli,


sorry for the not working link to the information about quoting.

This one should be working.


viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

I have read the disclaimer, I accept.

I am willing to do whatever the guide needs me to do. I have tried everything and nothing has brought be lasting fulfillment.

does that include uncompromising non-duality videos as well?

Yes, it does.

For this process at LU we are using Direct Pointing and Direct Experience, which is experiential.

All other material, videos and audios, books etc are a distraction of what we are doing and could prevent you from focusing on Looking and Seeing.

Life will not change because there is already no separate self doing anything.

What you are saying here, is this your actual experience or a memory from an actual experience in the past or a thought you picked up?

Nothing is missing, but there seems to be a person that is here.

And who or what could then be this person?

i will be honest i have no idea and I really dont know what can happen.

These are actually the best enabling factors for what we are doing here and can be really helpful during your process.

total honesty to yourself and in your answers to me
not having any ideas
knowing that you don’t know



What comes up when is read that there is no self & never has been? That it is just a made-up story?





Love to you

Trisha

Hi Trisha,

Yes, it does.

For this process at LU we are using Direct Pointing and Direct Experience, which is experiential.

All other material, videos and audios, books etc are a distraction of what we are doing and could prevent you from focusing on Looking and Seeing.

Ok then I will put my complete focus into the seeing and I will stop watching those videos.

What you are saying here, is this your actual experience or a memory from an actual experience in the past or a thought you picked up?

I am saying that there is no sperate self because I have had a couple of experiences where it was seen through that there was no individual. So I would say that it would be a memory from an actual experience in the past. I also have just heard other people talk about this, but that doesn't really matter because like you said before this is about direct experience.

And who or what could then be this person?

The person that I am talking about is an experience of separation. It feels like I am in the body and I am looking out at the world. It feels like I am this person and then there are other people out there. I have practiced awareness alot, but that only made me feel better it did not end the suffering or the feeling of separation.

What comes up when is read that there is no self & never has been? That it is just a made-up story?

It really resonates when that is heard or read, Its very hard to explain but its like my entire being feels the truth. Having had past experiences of realizing there is no self when I heard others speak about it I quickly resonated. With all of that being said it still really confuses me because that is not the experience for me and its gets frustrating because it feels like there is nothing I can do.


Much love, Eli

Hi Eli,

Ok then I will put my complete focus into the seeing and I will stop watching those videos.

Happy to read your decision :-)

like you said before this is about direct experience.

Yes, your own experiences

It feels like I am in the body and I am looking out at the world. It feels like I am this person and then there are other people out there.

That there is an ‘I’ or any separate self at all, well, that’s a made up thought or idea.

And we will look and examine into what you call ‘it feels like’.

It really resonates when that is heard or read, Its very hard to explain but its like my entire being feels the truth.

Very nice :-)

it still really confuses

Confusion is when there is thinking and believing thoughts and their content. We will look into this.



So, let’s start.

What we are working with is called Direct or Actual Experiencing.
To make clear what is meant by this, here is an example:



Direct or Actual Experiences

Here is an example what is meant when it is said that we are using only Direct or Actual Experience to look for something.

We can try to think about something, trying to understand or finding knowledge, remembering or asking somebody else
or we can directly LOOK and SEE.


When I ask you: how is the weather in your place right now?


You can:

- go out of the door or open a window and

look at the sky, you can see blue sky, the sun, or clouds or rain or snow or the moon, you can see the trees move
you can sense the sun or a cold wind or rain or snow on your face
you can smell rain or snow or wet earth
you can taste rain or snow
you can also hear the wind moving the trees or hearing rain drops falling and hitting a roof



or you can:


- open a weather App, read about how the weather is supposed to be in your place right now,
you can also remember last nights weather forecast you saw on TV or on your computer
or you can ask somebody else what they know about the weather in your place right now


We see here the world of Direct or Actual Experiences
and the world of thinking and thoughts and ideas and opinions about experience.


I am sure you see that only the first example is about direct experiencing?

Here in our investigating process we use only direct, actual, raw experiences.


Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)



Are you clear about this or would you like any further clarification?


Love to you

Trisha

Hey Trisha,

That there is an ‘I’ or any separate self at all, well, that’s a made up thought or idea.

And we will look and examine into what you call ‘it feels like’.

Ok Great.

Confusion is when there is thinking and believing thoughts and their content. We will look into this.

Sounds good I'm looking forward to it.

I am sure you see that only the first example is about direct experiencing?

Yes that is clear.

Are you clear about this or would you like any further clarification?

I am completely clear on this.



Much Love, Eli

Hi Eli,


Let’s start then.



Direct Experience - Labelling Daily Activities


For this first pointer, please break down normal daily activities into the simple categories of their Direct/Actual Experience:

seeing = image/colour
smelling = smell
sensing = sensation
tasting = taste
hearing = sound
thinking of something = thought


So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought


I would like you to do this exercise many times during your day, with simple daily activities.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experiences from yesterday. Those are the only items any experience can be.


Please post several of your own observations in lists exactly like the one in the breakfast example.

Any observations?



Love to you

Trisha

Hi Trisha,

Please post several of your own observations in lists exactly like the one in the breakfast example.

Eating first meal:

Seeing an Orange, Simply= image/colour
Smelling an Orange, Simply= smell
Peeling the Orange, Simply = sensation
Tasting the Orange, Simply = taste
Hearing the Chewing of the Orange, simply = sound
thinking about eating the orange, simply= thought


Going for a walk outside:

Seeing a tree, simply =image/colour
Smelling the cold air, simply = smell
feeling the cold wind on my face, simply = sensation
hearing the cars drive by, simply =sound
thinking that its really cold outside, simply = thought

Any observations?

I realized that I'm usually only aware of my thoughts most of the time, this activity is allowing me to pay attention to the other sense perceptions. Is the plan to continue doing this on a daily basis?



Much love, Eli

Hi Eli,

Good work!

I realized that I'm usually only aware of my thoughts most of the time, this activity is allowing me to pay attention to the other sense perceptions. Is the plan to continue doing this on a daily basis?

Nice noticing :-)

I wouldn’t call it plan, but yes, if it happens that there is more noticing of the 5 senses….. good



Now, let’s go a step further.


Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into two 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation ie is there any tightening, or any relaxing?


For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Post this list.


Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

Post this list, too.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)


At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labeled and answer the following four questions:


1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body? Describe this.



Relax, have fun. Looking forward to your replies.


Love to you

Trisha

Hi Trisha,

Post this list.

List #1:
I am sitting on a bed
I am looking at a plant
I am hearing another person in the other room
I am looking at an ipad
I am feeling hot
I am looking out a window
I am touching my face with my hand
I am hear someone using a blender
I am closing my eyes
I am looking at the phone
I am looking at the dresser
I am feeling relaxed

Post this list, too.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

List #2:
sitting on a bed
looking at blankets
looking out the window
hearing people speak in the other room
looking at a plant
touching face
looking at the ipad
breathing
blinking
touching beard
touching lip
seeing a cat
rubbing face
checking phone
thoughts are appearing
feeling bored
closing eyes
looking at a pot
using an ipad

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

It seems the second description is more true.

2. What is here without labels?

If there were no labels then everything would be exactly as it is.

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

Labels affect the experience because they put meaning into the experience. If there were no labels everything would simply be as it is.

4. Did you notice any differences in the body? Describe this.

I did not notice any differences in the body. There was mostly relaxation with a slight tension in my chest area that is very hard to describe.



Much Love, Eli

Hi Eli,

thank you for your good lists.



This exercise has two aspects:

It's about the difference between an ‘I’ doing something or the same action just happening. It is about a difference between adding the ‘I’ label or not.

If there were no labels everything would simply be as it is.

Yes, exactly, good seeing.

Labels affect the experience because they put meaning into the experience.

Can you find any difference between ‘labelling' an experience and 'putting meaning 'to an experience?


Do labels really affect the experience? Or only the way we think about it?





The second aspect of this exercise is noticing the different sensations in the gut for truth and lie.


Your noticing of body sensations is good. This is very helpful in this process.

There was mostly relaxation with a slight tension in my chest area

Relaxation, lightness, expansion, spaciousness all are feelings of Truth

Tension, contraction, heaviness are feelings of Lie.

The sensations are felt mostly in the belly or gut, chest area and throat.




So when you notice: 'slight tension in my chest area', this is pointing to a lie.

And when you notice relaxation, this is pointing to truth.


Eli, are you clear about this?
What questions do you have?

It seems the second description is more true.

How do you experience ‘more true’ then?




Love to you

Trisha

Hi Trisha,

Can you find any difference between ‘labelling' an experience and 'putting meaning 'to an experience?

I cant not find a difference between the two, if I am being honest labeling the experience or putting meaning to an experience is just an artificial add on to what already is.

Do labels really affect the experience? Or only the way we think about it?

Now that I think about it labels don't affect the experience, but the way we think about it, like you said.

Eli, are you clear about this?

Yes I am clear about this.

What questions do you have?

Do you want me to send you another list ? or do I just do the exercise and start paying attention to the gut?
When I feel a sensation what do I do?

How do you experience ‘more true’ then?

Ok wow you cant experience more true, the labeling is just an add on to what is already happening.







Much Love, Eli

Hi Eli,

I cant not find a difference between the two, if I am being honest labeling the experience or putting meaning to an experience is just an artificial add on to what already is.

Yes, exactly

Do labels really affect the experience? Or only the way we think about it?

Now that I think about it labels don't affect the experience, but the way we think about it, like you said.

You were thinking???

Please can you go back to the question and Look at it only with the 5 senses?
We call this ‘Deep Looking’. Take time.

Maybe you did use DE already and only called it ’thinking’…….?
We don’t want a fast, automatic like answer.


Do labels really affect the experience? Or only the way we think about it?

Ok wow you cant experience more true, the labeling is just an add on to what is already happening.

Good!

I just do the exercise and start paying attention to the gut?
When I feel a sensation what do I do?

Yes start paying attention to the gut, the gut feelings, the sensations in your body, what ever we call this.

There is nothing you have to do, when noticing body sensations. It is about noticing or being aware of them. And then seeing if there is truth or lie in what is experienced.


Relaxation, lightness, expansion, spaciousness all are feelings of Truth

Tension, contraction, heaviness are feelings of Lie.

The sensations are felt mostly in the belly or gut, chest area and throat.




Let me know if there are more questions or observations around this.




Let’s look more into the relationship of ‘Reality’ or what is experienced with the 5 senses and labelling:


Label-Reality Correlation

There is a belief that labels have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’.
But there isn’t.
Just like it is a generally accepted belief that labels like ‘good’ and ‘bad’ are inherent characteristics of ‘things’. But actually, they are not.


When you look at the word label ‘GREEN' , what is the actual experience?

Is the color red ‘experienced’,?
Or is the color green ‘experienced’ as the label suggests?

Does the label ‘GREEN’ have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’?
Or does the label suggest something else other than what is here now (red colour)?

Is 'green' associated in any way with the experience of the colour red?
Or is green just a label that overlays the actual experience of red?

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’ , is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

Does redness become ‘good’ or ‘bad’, or do the labels have no affect whatsoever on ‘reality’?

Let me know what is SEEN.


What did you discover?




Love to you

Trisha

Hi Trisha,

Do labels really affect the experience? Or only the way we think about it?

Labels do not affect the experience because the experience is what is happening. The label is a mental creation of the mind, but that doesn't affect what is actually happening. There could be the same experience for two people and one person would label it "bad and the other "good", but that doesn't change the actual experience.

Let me know if there are more questions or observations around this.

Today I felt a strong sensation in my chest while I was sitting down doing the exercise. It felt like tension so it would be a lie. I didn't do anything about it I was just aware and observed the sensation. I was also driving my car today and I felt a strong tension in my stomach area. This tension kind of feels like anxiety, but I'm not sure exactly.

I Do have one question for you.
Why is tension and contraction feelings of lie?

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN' , what is the actual experience?

Its simply just the color red.

Is the color red ‘experienced’,?
Or is the color green ‘experienced’ as the label suggests?

The color red is experienced.

Does the label ‘GREEN’ have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’?
Or does the label suggest something else other than what is here now (red colour)?

The label 'GREEN' has a one-to-one correspondence with reality.

Is 'green' associated in any way with the experience of the colour red?
Or is green just a label that overlays the actual experience of red?

Green is a label that overlays the actual experience of red

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’ , is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

No the redness is not affected in any way.

Does redness become ‘good’ or ‘bad’, or do the labels have no affect whatsoever on ‘reality’?

The redness is just redness, it does not become 'good' or 'bad'. The labels have no affect whatsoever on reality.

Let me know what is SEEN.

WOW so everything is simply this "redness", or whatever word you want to use to describe reality. Labels are all concepts created by the mind, its actually artificial because it doesn't change the reality at all. All beliefs are just concepts and none of them are actually the true reality.

What did you discover?

That all beliefs and labels are false and artificial, there is only the one reality.






Much Love, Eli.