The Gate

Posted: **Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:47 pm**

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That there is no real center to experience. Maybe there is no separate entity that is in here controlling my writing. This is all just happening and unfolding, all of experience is this way. Maybe there is no "me" in here who is deciding what to think about, how to react, what to do, how to move my body etc.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking to understand what the nature of what the "me" is. I want to see in a way that allows me to surrender to the flow of life, to see that this is all unfolding, and that there is no need to try and grasp or push away any experience.

I want to see in a way that allows me to embrace it all just as it is. To embrace life as it is. Without this constant idea that I need to somehow make it meet my expectations. I don't want to live in illusions anymore.

I wish to recognize the truth as it is. I don't think the truth can be anything to fear. This is because when fear does arise, and I investigate the fear directly, I realize that it is appearing in this sea of stillness and calmness. Sometimes I am not aware of the fear, that's when I get lost in it. But I think there is no reason why I couldn't always be aware of the fear and investigate it directly in my experience, seeing through it.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect to be guided directly towards direct seeing from someone who understands the illusory nature of the self. But I realize that the seeing cannot be directly transferred into me in any concrete way. Someone can only point me in that direction, and it is in my direct experience where the direct looking itself always happens. So actually, maybe it's best not to bring any expectations to the guided conversation, only a willingness to see. And sometimes, more and more often nowadays; I find myself with not only a little willingness, but oceans and mountains of willingness. But of course, this fluctuates, but in general I have at least a little willingness and desire to see, and I think bringing that into the conversation could be helpful.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have practiced meditation quite consistently for over 2 years now, and have spent quite a lot of time inquiring into the nature of my experience. Investigating this sense of direct experience. Some of my understanding is experiential, but a lot of it is still largely thought based understanding. It makes sense to me, and I see why it is important, but that deeper step in the experiential domain is still missing, and I am finding it more and more important to understand *this*.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

Posted: **Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:19 am**

Hi,

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed. My name is Vivien and I can assist you with your inquiry.

This is going to be your inquiry. I will not be giving you new ideas and beliefs; only assisting you in examining and questioning the ones that you already have. We can have a conversation and see where it takes you.

The purpose of which would be for there to be a realization, more than just intellectually, that there never was and never will be a separate self, as, such. All our efforts will focus on that.

I will tend to ask many questions. That's my job here. These, will be pointers towards investigating that what it is that you mistake for a self. It will be for you to examine your experience to find out what's true or not.

I would like to ask you to write only from your experience as you see it, what feels true, with whole honesty.
Also, post daily, or at least every other day. If you cannot post, or need more time, please let me know.
Can we agree on these?

I expect to be guided directly towards direct seeing from someone who understands the illusory nature of the self. But I realize that the seeing cannot be directly transferred into me in any concrete way. Someone can only point me in that direction, and it is in my direct experience where the direct looking itself always happens. So actually, maybe it's best not to bring any expectations to the guided conversation, only a willingness to see. And sometimes, more and more often nowadays; I find myself with not only a little willingness, but oceans and mountains of willingness. But of course, this fluctuates, but in general I have at least a little willingness and desire to see, and I think bringing that into the conversation could be helpful.

Thank you for your honesty. Dropping expectations is a very good starting point.

So are you read?

Vivien

Posted: **Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:48 am**

Hi,

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed. My name is Vivien and I can assist you with your inquiry.
Hi, good to hear from you. My name is Markus.

I would like to ask you to write only from your experience as you see it, what feels true, with whole honesty.
Also, post daily, or at least every other day. If you cannot post, or need more time, please let me know.
Can we agree on these?
Sounds good, I can post at least every other day, but mostly every day.

So are you read?

Vivien
Definitely yes!
-Markus

Posted: **Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:44 am**

Hi Marcus,

Maybe there is no separate entity that is in here controlling my writing.

Let’s start here. We need to look at our immediate experience to pass the ‘maybe’ part :) We need to be sure. And the only way to be sure is to experience it directly. I hope you can agree.

“My writing” – who is saying that?

Search through all experience and find the one who/what has writing. Where is this one?
Where is the one that says ‘MY writing’?

Note:
I'm going to write all my questions in blue. Every blue question will be a pointer for you where to look. Please make sure that you investigate ALL the questions thoroughly in your own experience, without trying to come up with an answer from intellectual understanding, like something you've heard or read, or learned by someone else. This is something you need to see, not just understand.

So please make sure that you deeply investigate all blue questions, and you reply to them one-by-one (unless I group them into blocks).

Try to avoid replying quickly... since that would be just the mind answering with the same old beliefs or learned knowledge. Rather with each post, spend a whole day investigating it again and again, before replying. I hope you are OK with this. This deep investigation could help immensely.

Vivien

Posted: **Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:07 am**

Let’s start here. We need to look at our immediate experience to pass the ‘maybe’ part :) We need to be sure. And the only way to be sure is to experience it directly. I hope you can agree.
100%

“My writing” – who is saying that?

There is this sense that I am a person here, who is writing this text. I will go more into this sense of personhood in my reply to the next question.

Search through all experience and find the one who/what has writing. Where is this one?
Where is the one that says ‘MY writing’?

I can't point to any specific place in my experience, but in general the one who is writing seems to be centered around my head area. There is this conglomeration of thoughts and sensations going on in my head, and I have a sense that that's where the writer is more than anywhere else.

That sense of a "me" who is writing is also based on the experience that there are things that are private, that others can't see or sense. So my sense of identity, this "me" or "my writing" is also based around that sense of distinction I can make between what I sense I have that others can't directly see or touch (my private thoughts and feelings) and the outside world and other people. Those private thoughts seem to be appearing in the head, and the private sensations all over the body, including the head. So that sense of distinction is moving with me wherever I go.

In regard to the one who says "my writing". Well that seems to originally be a thought, and it's coming seemingly out of nowhere, just popping up. But then I tie that thought to that experience I talked about in the past two paragraphs. So the one who SAYS "my writing" seems to be concentrated in the head, but the original thought, I can't really say where it came from, but it seems to keep coming up in a consistent way.

Posted: **Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:52 am**

Hi Marcus,

I can't point to any specific place in my experience, but in general the one who is writing seems to be centered around my head area. There is this conglomeration of thoughts and sensations going on in my head, and I have a sense that that's where the writer is more than anywhere else.

Nice catch. :)

Now, I would like to ask you to investigate this very thoroughly by looking at your own direct experience:

Is it possible that the me who is seemingly writing, thinking, responding, etc. is nothing else but a mistaken sensation in/of the head? And only a thought says: “It’s me”?
In other words, is it possible that the sense of me is just a misperceived sensation with a nice thought story ‘wrapped around’ it?

Please not just contemplate this, but rather PROVE it to yourself that this is NOT just a sensation, but an actual, real self, a real me, a real person. So, what do you find?

That sense of a "me" who is writing is also based on the experience that there are things that are private, that others can't see or sense. So my sense of identity, this "me" or "my writing" is also based around that sense of distinction I can make between what I sense I have that others can't directly see or touch (my private thoughts and feelings) and the outside world and other people. Those private thoughts seem to be appearing in the head, and the private sensations all over the body, including the head. So that sense of distinction is moving with me wherever I go.

Well, if you look at this very closely, then you probably can see that this is an intellectual reasoning.

Yes, there are other bodies. Yes, there are thoughts belonging to each body. But, does this automatically mean that there are individuals, persons in each bodies, creating, thinking those thoughts?

So, how to check this? Well, the sure way to check this is to see if there is a person here in this body (called ‘my body’). So is there a person, a me inside this body, inside the head intentionally thinking thoughts?

Again, we are not denying the fact that there are distinct bodies with distinct thoughts, patterns, behaviours. What we are investigating is if there are entities INSIDE those / this body(s) intentionally governing the body, intentionally thinking thoughts, in short, entities with free will. And the sure way to check this to see if there is a person inside this body thinking THIS thought right now.

Vivien

Posted: **Sat Dec 04, 2021 11:24 am**

Hi Vivien,

Is it possible that the me who is seemingly writing, thinking, responding, etc. is nothing else but a mistaken sensation in/of the head? And only a thought says: “It’s me”?
In other words, is it possible that the sense of me is just a misperceived sensation with a nice thought story ‘wrapped around’ it?

Yes, I can't seem to find the me who would be doing any of this.

Please not just contemplate this, but rather PROVE it to yourself that this is NOT just a sensation, but an actual, real self, a real me, a real person. So, what do you find?

I spent a lot of time yesterday and today looking for the "real person, the me" who is doing all of this. I can't find anything specific, all there is, is endless thoughts, sensations and all kinds of stuff going on, but I can't find myself in any of it when I really look. First there was a feeling of frustration because I couldn't find myself in any of my experience. But at least now, there is a sense of spaciousness also as I realize that I'm not found in the sensations or thoughts. With that I notice a tingling in my fingers that I didn't notice earlier, a sense of lightness and I feel less centered in the head for a little bit. At times it feels more mysterious, like I don't really know much about *this*.

And this is all coming and going constantly, I keep getting identified with the head sensations, but when I really look I can see it can't really be who I am. Confusion/frustration -- a bit of clarity/spaciousness --- confusion/frustration -- a bit of clarity/spaciousness-- confusion/frustration -- and so on..

Yes, there are other bodies. Yes, there are thoughts belonging to each body. But, does this automatically mean that there are individuals, persons in each bodies, creating, thinking those thoughts?

No

So, how to check this? Well, the sure way to check this is to see if there is a person here in this body (called ‘my body’). So is there a person, a me inside this body, inside the head intentionally thinking thoughts?

I can't find it! And it feels frustrating, because when I'm not looking for it, I still intuitively feel identified with something, like there is a "me" in here. Then I look again, and "the author" is nowhere to be found!
Thoughts are appearing. Sensations are appearing. Movement is appearing. I can (when I look) see that they aren't being generated by any "me" in the head. So I can occasionally (when I really look) see that there is no entity with free will authoring and in control.
But who is the "I" then? It seems to be appearing out of nothing. But beyond thoughts and sensations there is still a sense of being, a sense of "I" here. It feels so paradoxical and there's confusion again, since I easily feel entangled in thoughts and sensations again.

Posted: **Sun Dec 05, 2021 5:59 am**

Hi Marcus,

You did an excellent investigation :)

First there was a feeling of frustration because I couldn't find myself in any of my experience.

When there is frustration (or any emotion), look for the one that feels it. Where is the feeler?
Is there a feeler at all?
Or all there is just the emotion itself ‘floating freely’, without being anchored to a person, or happening TO someone?

At times it feels more mysterious, like I don't really know much about *this*.

Great! It’s all about not knowing. As soon as I know it, my mind is closed. I put it into a box, with a label ‘it’s done’, ‘I already know it, this is how it, there is nothing new here’. It’s done. With that I made it into a defined thing with its assigned characteristics. From that on, it’s a belief.

And this is all coming and going constantly, I keep getting identified with the head sensations, but when I really look I can see it can't really be who I am.

Now, instead of looking at the head sensation, turn attention to the one that identifies with it.
Where is this one?
Where is the one that needs an identity?

I can't find it! And it feels frustrating, because when I'm not looking for it, I still intuitively feel identified with something, like there is a "me" in here.

Are you sure that you FEEL to be identified with something? Or rather there is just a FEELING, or a sensation?

But beyond thoughts and sensations there is still a sense of being, a sense of "I" here.

Yes. Just because there is no separate entity, it doesn’t mean that I don’t exist. I clearly exist. But exist as what? That’s the big question.

Do I exist as a person? As an entity in the head?
Am I the body?
Am I inside the body?

Can I say anything at all about my existence?
Or the only thing that I know that I exist. Period. But I cannot say more…. What do you find?

Please spend at least a day (or even 2) looking at these questions. You are doing really well :)

Vivien

Posted: **Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:38 am**

Hi Vivien,

When there is frustration (or any emotion), look for the one that feels it. Where is the feeler?
Is there a feeler at all?
Or all there is just the emotion itself ‘floating freely’, without being anchored to a person, or happening TO someone?

The feeler cannot be found when looked for. Only the sensations appearing in a free space. Today I felt some fear, being in a new environment, I remembered this and looked for the one that feels in that moment. I found no one there, and the feeling didn't feel really limiting anymore. But this is still only when I remember to look for the feeler.

Also, as I look back to my previous day here, it feels more "dreamy", as in it doesn't feel so solid or real. What happened doesn't seem so "sticky", thoughts and sensations are coming and going, but they "pass through" quite quickly, at least for now. I'm not sure if I was perceiving my past in this way before. I'm not sure if this is relevant to mention, but might as well if it has any chance of helping.

Now, instead of looking at the head sensation, turn attention to the one that identifies with it.
Where is this one?
Where is the one that needs an identity?

The one that identifies with the head sensation and needs an identity cannot be found. I have still not found it anywhere. So it seems it is nowhere, as in it is in no location. There is also a bit of fear arising with this. I notice that as I *think* about this, there can be some fear, but then when I look at it more directly, look into what is true here right now, there is no such thing as fear, just some sensations going on, which clearly can't be who I fundamentally am.

Are you sure that you FEEL to be identified with something? Or rather there is just a FEELING, or a sensation?

I see that being identified with/as something is not an actual feeling, it is much closer to an assumption. So I don't actually FEEL identified with something, I ASSUME I have, or am an identity based on my THOUGHTS about some feelings and sensations that are arising. So it seems there is a habit of making an assumption based on some thoughts about certain feelings and sensations, and taking that as the "me".
Now I try to look at those sensations and feelings behind the assumption, and I recognize that they are equal to every other thought or feeling, they have no special status. But the identification assumption still seems to be happening somewhat automatically for 99% of the day.

Do I exist as a person? As an entity in the head?
Am I the body?
Am I inside the body?

I can't be an appearance (person), I am the one that sees appearances, among them the idea of the person. So I can't be that. I can't be the body for the same reason, it is another appearance. I can't be inside the body, since all I find is sensations, feelings and stuff going on, I can't see how I could be in any sensation or collection of sensations. Even the largest and most intense collection of sensations I can sense at once, cannot be me, since who would be there sensing it?

Can I say anything at all about my existence?
Or the only thing that I know that I exist. Period. But I cannot say more…. What do you find?

The thing that I can be the most sure of is that I exist, yes. But for me, there are also changing sensations, feelings, thoughts and appearances which seem to exist as well. I'm not so sure if they have their own independent existence though..

This has been great so far :)

Posted: **Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:39 am**

Hi Marcus,

I found no one there, and the feeling didn't feel really limiting anymore. But this is still only when I remember to look for the feeler.

Is there an expectation that the appearance of a feeler should stop?

There is also a bit of fear arising with this. I notice that as I *think* about this, there can be some fear, but then when I look at it more directly, look into what is true here right now, there is no such thing as fear, just some sensations going on,

What happens to fear without a ‘fearful’ story?

Just notice, fear, or any emotion arise only when a thought story is taken to be real / actual. Can you see that?

I say, fear is a response to a mental movie… - is that true?

I see that being identified with/as something is not an actual feeling, it is much closer to an assumption. So I don't actually FEEL identified with something, I ASSUME I have, or am an identity based on my THOUGHTS about some feelings and sensations that are arising. So it seems there is a habit of making an assumption based on some thoughts about certain feelings and sensations, and taking that as the "me".

Nice catch. There is an important thing to mention here… we often think or say the phrase (as a figure of speaking) “it feels like” or “it seems like”. These phrases usually point to a thought not to a sensation. A sensation would be when you pinch yourself and then you really bodily, physically feel something.

So the "It feels like the I is here." appears as content of a thought.

"I feel like" = "I think that…"
“It seems like” = “I think that….”

What we are investigating here that what is it exactly that we take for an I. Since intellectually we already know that there is no real I outside of the realm of thoughts, and yet it can SEEM like as if there were an I. So there must be something or several different things that we mistake for an I.

We are looking at the ‘SEEMS/FEELS TO BE’ to see if that's true. We look at how the story is created and maintained and why it is so credible.

Always be watchful when the 'it feels' turns up - Is there a sensation, yes or no? So there is either something in direct experience or it is thought content.

Often "I feel" has so nothing to do with a feeling like joy for example or a sensation like tightness, but it is merely a thought telling a story about something.

But the identification assumption still seems to be happening somewhat automatically for 99% of the day.

Is there anything to the ‘identification assumption’ other than being a thought?

Should this thought stop?
Or is it enough to see it to be a thought only, and not a real thing?

Vivien

Posted: **Thu Dec 09, 2021 12:44 pm**

Hi Vivien,

Is there an expectation that the appearance of a feeler should stop?

I guess there is an expectation that the appearance of a limited feeler that feels like a victim of the world would stop. The "I" must still remain but the "I" wouldn't be separated from anything.

What happens to fear without a ‘fearful’ story?

That which I call fear is seen as sensations and emotions in the body, without the story that's all there is, there is no victim of fear who is trying to protect itself from something it believes is outside it.

Just notice, fear, or any emotion arise only when a thought story is taken to be real / actual. Can you see that?

Yes. When I take the thought story as real, as in that there is a separated being here that can be threatened or lose something, then fear arises. When I see it as just a story, it has no actual impact, it's kind of like watching a scary movie in broad daylight, or from behind the scenes where you can see all the cameras and the set; it's difficult to buy into the reality of the story.

I say, fear is a response to a mental movie… - is that true?

Yes, it's a response to a "secondary", mental layer that is not what is here now, but something that is being imagined through thoughts and images.

Is there anything to the ‘identification assumption’ other than being a thought?

No, it's really just thoughts, or honestly maybe still a bit of this contracted feeling/sensation in the head of slight pressure and tingling that I am getting identified with.

Should this thought stop?
Or is it enough to see it to be a thought only, and not a real thing?

It doesn't need to stop. It becomes much less real when seen as simply a thought. It is actually quite absurd. Who I thought I am is nothing but a thought, and it made me miss the aliveness of this present moment. There are some glimpses of aliveness, of seeing through the thought story.

Posted: **Fri Dec 10, 2021 6:11 am**

Hi Marcus,

Well, you have some pretty expectations :) They are important, because every expectation is in a way of seeing what is here, right now.

Every expectation is a ‘hindrance’ in realizing what IS. Expectations result in comparison. Comparison between what is happening, and the imagined expectation. Thus what has been seen can be thrown out or ignored, since it doesn’t match the expected outcome.

I guess there is an expectation that the appearance of a limited feeler that feels like a victim of the world would stop.

Why would it? Many people believe that seeing that there is no self, the whole experience will change. Like now there is a seeming feeler, and the feeler will stop appearing in the future. But we are not pursuing something that is not ALREADY the case! Reality is already how it is, regardless how it shows up. We are not trying to get somewhere, or achieve something in the future (like losing the feeler, or the victim), but rather discovering if there is a feeler or a victim right here, right NOW, REGARDLESS of their seeming presence or absence of it.

This is very important: we are not seeking a different state or a different experience.
Rather, we are looking if in spite of appearances, if there an actual, real feeler or victim BEHIND those appearances.
Do you see the difference?

The appearance of the victim is not simply there because there is a belief in a separate self. It’s much more complicated than that. When there is any form of suffering (or any form of discontent), it’s not just because of the apparent personhood. Suffering happens when certain stimuli poke or touch our ‘wounds inside’. Those wounds are not a person/self. The self is just an added narrative.

The personality stays almost completely intact when the self is seen through (at least at the beginning). All the conditionings from childhood, all the traumas, all the gathered emotional pains won’t dissolve in an instant just because the self is seen through. These most likely will stay, however, they are much more accessible and easier to work with after seeing through the illusion. This is just the first step, just the beginning, and not the end. But it is the beginning of the falling away of conditionings, which can last until the end of the organism

The "I" must still remain but the "I" wouldn't be separated from anything.

Well, although “I exist” or more precisely “there is existence”, it doesn’t mean that after seeing that there is no separate self, I will not be separate from anything. What “I” would be that? It’s not that there are 2 kinds of ‘I’-s. A false, separate one, a real one.

The one that hopes to be not separate IS the illusionary self.
The hope to be not separate is a seeking of a future state, when the experience will be different than how it is right now FOR the separate self.

But this is not the aim here. We are not seeking for a different, better state in the future.
Rather we are looking if there is an actual experience of separation right NOW.

How can we look at that? Not by seeking a different experience, but rather looking if there is a separate person here, right NOW, IN SPITE of the seeming appearance of it.
Do you see the difference?

So, where is the one right now that is separate?
Where is the one right now that feels to be separate and are striving to be not separate?

Is there an actual, experiencable separation right now?
Has it ever been?

How separation itself is experienced right now?

No, it's really just thoughts, or honestly maybe still a bit of this contracted feeling/sensation in the head of slight pressure and tingling that I am getting identified with.

Just notice, existence is mistaken for an I here. We had to look to see that “I exist” in order to avoid nihilistic thoughts.

But this phrase is very misleading. Since as soon as the word ‘I” is uses, it’s automatically, unconsciously points to the separate self. Check if this true…. notice, that whenever the word “I” used, it’s already personal, pointing to s separate ‘something’. Isn’t that the case?

So no, it that sense, the ‘I” does NOT exist. There is a big difference between ‘I exist’ and “the I doesn’t exist”.
When you say “I’m getting identified with” – just notice, that this I is pointing to the person.
Only a person could identify. What else could?

So look for the one that identifies with that sensation. Where is the identifier?

Vivien

Posted: **Sat Dec 11, 2021 3:07 pm**

Hi Vivien,

This is very important: we are not seeking a different state or a different experience.
Rather, we are looking if in spite of appearances, if there an actual, real feeler or victim BEHIND those appearances.
Do you see the difference?

Yes

How can we look at that? Not by seeking a different experience, but rather looking if there is a separate person here, right NOW, IN SPITE of the seeming appearance of it.
Do you see the difference?

Yes

So, where is the one right now that is separate?
Where is the one right now that feels to be separate and are striving to be not separate?

It's nowhere, there is just experience happening. There is no one that feels separate.

Is there an actual, experiencable separation right now?
Has it ever been?

No! It can't be actual, it's just appearances! The separation can't be experienced in any truly convincing way, and this has been the case always. The question of a potential experience of separation in the past; it requires belief, it requires thoughts, so it can't be actual either. The looking can only happen in the now. And even the looking itself is just another appearance here. But there's also a ton of confusion occurring, not a lot of clarity. Then again... it's seen that the expectation of clarity is just another thing the "me" is trying to actualize for itself. So ok ok, there's only this, nothing more, nothing can be added, nothing can be taken, NOW. Simply what is. Nothing feels different at all. Everything is as it has always been. Writing is coming from direct experience right now. There is a sadness appearing, a sadness that there is nowhere to go and nothing to do for the apparent feeler. Thoughts are appearing "is this it?" "did I get it" "am I being honest about my experience, am I just dancing with words here?" "did I glimpse it? "I can't say anything, I'm so confused, trapped" "what if I will never get it?"
But now, is there an experienceable, separate me that is creating these thoughts or thinking them, or a "me" that COULD ever get it or glimpse it? Well, it simply cannot be found, and there's no one to look for it either. Just this. Just the simple grandiosity of this is seen. It's just happening, all of it.

How separation itself is experienced right now?

Hahaha now you're really pushing it. It's just sensations, thoughts, feelings, appearances, nothing more. There can be nothing else found in this. There is no separate me behind the curtains running the show or a "me" in the audience watching it. There is just the show. Just the full vivid actuality of what is happening. If anything, it's just madness! What the hell is all this?

Check if this true…. notice, that whenever the word “I” used, it’s already personal, pointing to s separate ‘something’. Isn’t that the case?

Yeah, that's true. The "I" is just another appearance with a story tied to it, equal to every other appearance.

So look for the one that identifies with that sensation. Where is the identifier?

When you say "look for the one", there is a movement that is happening, as if awareness is moving to find itself. But that is just another event in awareness. Not only can it not be found, the looking itself is not happening from any place either, it's just something that is appearing, just like a leaf blowing in the wind, or a sense of tingling in the fingers, not any more significant than anything else. So, it's nowhere, but also everywhere in a way.

To be honest in a way it's seen as very clear at times, but in another way none of it makes any sense at all, (there's no one to make sense of it?). Sometimes it's like an eternal maze with no way out, other times it's like an open field. But then again, yes it is seen that there is no separate me this could be happening to, since none can be found. This is more of just getting entangled with the appearances, an appearance of confusion, a feeling of being stuck, trapped in a sense. Is there anything that can be done? The willingness to see this has gone from 10/10 to 11/10, yet it's like it's utterly hopeless and exhausting at the same time. But probably this is just more thoughts, more story to keep the sense of "me" and its journey towards "something" alive. Yet, this experience is what is undeniably happening now so it is shared, since the other option is to remain quiet yet still quite confused.

-Markus

Posted: **Sun Dec 12, 2021 1:55 am**

Hi Marcus,

Confusion is good! Welcome it. Confusion is just the result of the clash between the old beliefs and what is seen. It’s just there because what is seen doesn’t match what has been believed. That’s all. So all is well :)

The willingness to see this has gone from 10/10 to 11/10, yet it's like it's utterly hopeless and exhausting at the same time. But probably this is just more thoughts, more story to keep the sense of "me" and its journey towards "something" alive.

Look at this very closely… is there actually someone on a journey, or there are only THOUGHTS ABOUT someone being on a journey?

Is there anything to this journey, and the one being on a journey, other than a thought story?

Now, there is a big topic that we have to dig into; and that is the idea of control. So we start deeply investigating thinking (control over thoughts).

Please spend lots of time during the day (frequently, as often as possible, even if just for 10 seconds) on investigating these questions:

What do you do exactly in order to think?
How do you will / make / birth a thought into existence?

Try to catch yourself in the moment when you decide what to think BEFORE the thought itself arises.
Since if you are the thinker (whatever you are), then you must create a thought by will out of thin air and must see/know very clearly how you do it.

Vivien

Posted: **Mon Dec 13, 2021 12:00 pm**

Look at this very closely… is there actually someone on a journey, or there are only THOUGHTS ABOUT someone being on a journey?

There are just thoughts about someone being on journey.

Is there anything to this journey, and the one being on a journey, other than a thought story?

It's just thoughts attached to each other in a way which forms an appearance of consistency and something "real".

What do you do exactly in order to think?
How do you will / make / birth a thought into existence?

I looked into this a lot. There are thoughts that simply appear from nothing, from thin air basically. They pop up into awareness, and then it's like a self-reinforcing pattern. A thought stimulates another thought to pop up, which results in another thought, and another thought and so on. Usually these thoughts that pop up one after the other and they have some kind of connection to each other.
For example:
thought appears about a book I was reading yesterday----> thought appears about how most of my thoughts are about the past --> Song "yesterday" by the Beatles starts playing --> some thought about that occurs

Sometimes these thoughts form very complex and elaborate stories, but it's all happening without anybody orchestrating it. It's simply a process that is occurring.

Try to catch yourself in the moment when you decide what to think BEFORE the thought itself arises.

There's just silence silence silence (or thoughts thoughts thoughts) and then BOOM, a thought pops up out of nowhere, a story about the self is reinforced, thinking about "myself" in all kinds of situations in the past and the potential future. So there is no decision being made about what to think.

99% of the time thoughts are just popping up one after the other, in reaction to appearances, the environment, or quite commonly, a previous thought. In the 1% of time where I can think that I am consciously thinking, for example repeating the word "monkey" in my mind, I also realize that there was really no control in regards to what I would "consciously" think about; that also just appeared out of nowhere.

When really looked at, all there is in that moment before a thought arises, is just this unknowing, there's no idea about what the next thought will be, the moment there is an idea, it is already a thought.

The Gate

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