The Gate

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That the 'I' thought/story that arises and claims everything is not true. Life is not happening to someone. That Everything is sort off arising in association with each other and there isn't someone that can gain/lose anything.That there isn't someone that knows anything. That there isn't someone even seeking for liberation.

What are you looking for at LU?
Falling away of the 'me' energy and all the suffering caused by this separation that feels very real. I feel like I pick up a very heavy object as soon as I wake up in the morning. Looking for this constant dissatisfaction with life to end. Like I am at constant odds/war with what is.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Getting help to Notice the unquestioned assumptions about the self that are still there and somehow being missed. Any help that can given to end this constant dissatisfaction with life and to end this heaviness arising from being a separate self.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Been exposed to a wide variety of non-dual teachings for over 6 years.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

In my case, it seems this is what's happening-
There is fear from the unknowing and uncertainty about life. There is seeking for answers to know and feel safe. Every story that is bought,it seems is to simply give hope and quell this fear temporarily. On investigation, none of the stories/explanations seem to hold any water and then there is a return back to seeking.

In my case, it seems this is what's happening-
There is fear from the unknowing and uncertainty about life. There is seeking for answers to know and feel safe. Every story that is bought,it seems is to simply give hope and quell this fear temporarily. On investigation, none of the stories/explanations seem to hold any water and then there is a return back to seeking.

Now is all that also another story :)

What do you expect from the realisation that there is no separate self?

That I will stop being at odds with what is. That the resistance to what is and thoughts about how life should be will cease.

How will life change?

Life won't change per say, but my attitude towards it will change.

How will you change?

I am not sure about this. Since 'I' am the subject of investigation and subject to change.

What you hope to be different?

unbroken peace of mind. End of all the suffering related thoughts that arise.

When you say, you want to be guided to realize that there is no self, what do you expect that this realization should look like?

Actually I have no idea. There is trust that there is something like to be no self based on watching so many of them on YouTube giving talks. And they all seem so happy and at peace.

What benefits do you expect from seeing no self?

end of resistance to what is/peace of mind.

What would stay the same?

perceptions, sensations, other people with their existing traits and expectations from me , life situation

What you do not want to happen?

increase in my suffering or resistance to whatever is happening.

Thought I will elaborate on my suffering. Fear seems to be my biggest source of suffering.
For example, I am sitting in my room right now with nothing really going on. No immediate things to act on or that need my attention.I should be extremely grateful for this inherently peaceful situation but-
Still there is fear about what will happen in the future. I fear that I may lose my job sometime in the future and will not be able to maintain my current lifestyle. There is fear that My current relationships that I want to continue, won't and that I don't want to continue, will. Fear that I will not meet the expectations of some folks and disappoint them.
All this in the absence of a demanding circumstance which will bring about 'why is this happening to me','life is not being fair','why am I being picked on' etc blame.
I understand that this is all contained in the faculty of thinking. But whenever thinking is invoked, all this heavy baggage comes along with it.

Hello Rio,

As we have had a discussion via PM already and brought to mind your expectations and discussed what this exploration is about, I will give you some links I would like for you to read and give you some housekeeping guidelines, and then we can move onto the exploration itself.

Here are links to information I would like you to read before we begin.

Disclaimer:-

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Terms & Conditions:-

https://www.liberationunleashed.com/register/terms/

“Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Please learn to use the quote function. When replying to a question, please use the quote function to highlight the question being answered. Instructions are located in the link below:

https://www.liberationunleashed.com/na ... f=4&t=660

Please confirm that you have read the disclaimer and the other links and we can then begin the exploration.

Some housekeeping guidelines:-
1. Unless exercises given need several days to be accomplished; post at least every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know. If you wish to post every day, that too is okay!

2. Please answer what's true for you once you have looked to see what is being pointed at, rather than any sort of 'ideal' answer. Ideal answers may sound good but will be of no benefit to you in having you realise that there is no separate self. There is no one judging answers given, so please be100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, colour and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration. Be here with an open and curious mind.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done in Word - it will save you time in the long run!

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Kay

Hi Kay,

Please confirm that you have read the disclaimer and the other links and we can then begin the exploration.

I confirm that I have read the disclaimer and the other links. I am ready to start the exploration under your guidance.

Thank you.
Rio

Hi Rio,

Okay, to begin this exploration we need to become consistently aware of what our direct actual experience (AE) is, and this entails LOOKING. LOOKING is simple. It is noticing the raw experience of sound, colour, smell, taste and sensation and noticing the thoughts that label and describe the raw experience being experienced.

So LOOKING is noticing raw experience prior to thought, and then noticing the thoughts that overlay the raw experience with labels, descriptions and stories. In other words, the term ‘actual experience’ (AE) is used to refer to experience ‘right now,’ and noticing the thought stories about them...so ‘looking’ is just plain looking at what is here right now, which is colour (image), sound, smell, sensation, taste and the simple knowing of thought at face value. It is through looking at your direct actual experience that you become aware of what reality actually is, instead of what thought says reality is. Being clear about your direct actual experience (AE) is an important component of this exploration.

Don’t get too caught up in this if you don’t understand what is being said. We will do exercises so that you become clear about LOOKING and actual experience. The following exercise points to what I mean.

I would like you to sit somewhere quiet and become aware of sounds. Close your eyes and just listen to the sounds for a few minutes. Really hear them.

Tell me ONE sound that you heard when doing this? And make sure that the sound is something you will hear again, for the next phase of this exercise.

Kay

Tell me ONE sound that you heard when doing this? And make sure that the sound is something you will hear again, for the next phase of this exercise.

This is constant slight humming sound from the refrigerator in my apartment. If I move to the bathroom, I can hear the flowing of water through the pipes.

Hi Rio,

Tell me ONE sound that you heard when doing this? And make sure that the sound is something you will hear again, for the next phase of this exercise.

This is constant slight humming sound from the refrigerator in my apartment.

Okay...so now, once again sit quietly; listen and really notice the sound labelled as " humming refrigerator".
Then I would like you to LOOK carefully at what I am pointing to with the following questions. Please take your time and do this exercise several times.

Please answer from LOOKING at your direct actual experience only (ie raw experience of colour, sound, smell, taste or sensation), and not with an intellectual answer that thought supplies.

Without thought, can it be known that the sound is that of the 'refrigerator humming'? In other words, what is it that suggests the sound is the 'refrigerator humming'?

Does the sound itself suggest in any way that it is a' humming refrigerator', or is it thought that suggests it?

What is the actual experience (AE) of sound labelled as the 'humming of refrigerator’? Is it AE of smell, taste, sensation, sound or colour?

Kay

Without thought, can it be known that the sound is that of the 'refrigerator humming'? In other words, what is it that suggests the sound is the 'refrigerator humming'?

First there is a raw experience of the actual Humming when attention is on hearing. Then when attention moves to thought, the experience is labelled as a 'refrigerator humming'.

Does the sound itself suggest in any way that it is a' humming refrigerator', or is it thought that suggests it?

The raw experience of sound is simply what it is and doesn't suggest anything. Thought suggests that it is 'humming refrigerator'.

What is the actual experience (AE) of sound labelled as the 'humming of refrigerator’? Is it AE of smell, taste, sensation, sound or colour?

The thought(humming of refrigerator) itself feels like a subtle sound.

Thoughts-
The raw experience of sound which I labeled as 'refrigerator humming' can only be experienced 1st hand by being in my apartment. Words/labels can't convey the felt experience.
Also prior to labeling it as 'refrigerator humming', the raw experience was labelled/categorized as 'sound'.

Hello Rio,

Without thought, can it be known that the sound is that of the 'refrigerator humming'? In other words, what is it that suggests the sound is the 'refrigerator humming'?

First there is a raw experience of the actual Humming when attention is on hearing. Then when attention moves to thought, the experience is labelled as a 'refrigerator humming'.

Yes, so without thought, the sound cannot and is not known as 'refrigerator humming'.

The words/label 'refrigerator humming' is AE of thought and not AE of a refrigerator humming
The sound labelled as 'refrigerator humming' is AE of sound and not AE of a refrigerator humming.
The thoughts about 'refrigerator humming' are AE of thought and not AE of a refrigerator humming

So what is actual experience (ie what is known) is words/label (which are thought) + sound + thoughts about a humming refrigerator, however, can a refrigerator humming be found in your direct actual experience?

Does the sound itself suggest in any way that it is a' humming refrigerator', or is it thought that suggests it?

The raw experience of sound is simply what it is and doesn't suggest anything. Thought suggests that it is 'humming refrigerator'.

Exactly. All that is known is the AE of sound and thoughts about the sound.

What is the actual experience (AE) of sound labelled as the 'humming of refrigerator’? Is it AE of smell, taste, sensation, sound or colour?

The thought(humming of refrigerator) itself feels like a subtle sound.

All that is known is AE of sound. Without thought, how is it known if the sound is subtle or not subtle? Does the sound in anyway suggest that it is subtle or any other qualitative descriptions, or is it thought that suggests these?

Kay

So what is actual experience (ie what is known) is words/label (which are thought) + sound + thoughts about a humming refrigerator, however, can a refrigerator humming be found in your direct actual experience?

yes.
For someone to experience it directly, they will have to be in my apartment.

All that is known is AE of sound. Without thought, how is it known if the sound is subtle or not subtle? Does the sound in anyway suggest that it is subtle or any other qualitative descriptions, or is it thought that suggests these?

Yes, it is AE of sound. 'subtle sound' is a label suggested by thought.

Hello Rio,

So what is actual experience (ie what is known) is words/label (which are thought) + sound + thoughts about a humming refrigerator, however, can a refrigerator humming be found in your direct actual experience?

yes.
For someone to experience it directly, they will have to be in my apartment.

The point is not whether someone needs to be in your apartment to become aware of the sound…the point of the exercise was for you to see if what your direct actual experience is, as opposed to what thought says it is.

Please go back and reread and redo the exercise from the beginning because you have missed what it is pointing to.

All that is known of the experience is AE of sound, ie all that is actual is sound, so where in sound can a refrigerator be found?

Does the sound itself suggest in any way that it is a refrigerator humming?

Without thought overlaying the sound with a label and story about a refrigerator humming…how can this be known?

All that is known is AE of sound. Without thought, how is it known if the sound is subtle or not subtle? Does the sound in anyway suggest that it is subtle or any other qualitative descriptions, or is it thought that suggests these?

Yes, it is AE of sound. 'subtle sound' is a label suggested by thought.

Yes....it is thought that suggests the sound is 'subtle', without thought that cannot be known. In other word, thought overlays the sound with a story of 'subtle'. Does the sound itself suggest in any way that it is subtle?

LOOK carefully here:-
So, applying that same looking....is it not thought that suggests the sound is a refrigerator humming? Without thought, can this be known? Does the sound itself suggest in any way that it is a humming fridge?

Kay