Untie the lines! Stop shuffling and deal!

[CapnBoomer]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
Self helping self to see Self and that the self never really existed. True Freedom.

What are you looking for at LU?
A community of people, souls, searching for the same thing. Liberation. A little help getting over the final hump ... getting beyond the ridiculous and tragic belief in the little self. My spiritual search has been a very private and inner Journey and I'm a little hesitant to join a community like this. I don't know exactly why but perhaps that will be discovered. I think it is a little difficult for me to ask for help or admit I dont know what I am doing. I have a tendency to just bull ahead and assume I will just figure it out myself. How hard can it be after all?
And perhaps I am looking for a way to be of True service in a way that will really get to the heart of all the suffering and effects of confusion and fear that seem rampant in our world...both inner and outer.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
A guide to help break the spell of the illusion of there being an individual self here or anywhere. I feel that I am caught in a little self-perpetuating circle or cycle and my meditations feel like they are floundering, not going very deep…. almost continuous mind chatter. It feels like I need someone to poke a stick in the spokes of the wheel. I just keep going around and around and around. Maybe I'll just go flying over the handlebars and land on 'my' face but maybe I'll just keep flying! It feels like I'm right on the edge of realization and just need that little guiding nudge. I answered 9 on the scale of my willingness to question currently held beliefs about 'self' because , while I am very eager and ready for this, I still feel some reluctance or hesitancy. But I think I am truly ready for the Final Judgement....is this ego-self thing real or what? I mean come on..can we (I, It) at long last call a lie a lie and get on with it? It is right there!!! Just a few well placed questions and some honest looking and boom!
I am also feeling a hesitancy because I am tired of seeking and not finding. Will this just be another of those "promises' that has kept me on the spiritual path, jumping from one to the next, for most of my life? Am I capable of an unleashing of liberation? Am I the one, or amongst the 'chosen' few ,that True Liberation is not available to?.....because of some wacky pre -birth plan or karmic debt overload?
Maybe I just came to see what it was like to get close, to be tantalized by the aroma, but not actually experience the full depth of the un-Leashing. I'm also feeling just a tad embarrassed that I've been duped for so long...even while looking all the while for, and claiming to have, the truth. Like the first Meeting of AA...having to stand up and admit that you are an Alcoholic. It's a hard think for a rational scientific mind to accept... that it's all been more than a bit off base. " What?!!? You mean to tell me the next Manhattan (or 'little s' self's goal) won't make me feel better?? Come on! Look around. Everybody else is doing it! " Somehow I conveniently forget about the splitting headache (or the ego's inevitable perpetual dissatisfaction) the next morning when making such a case.
And...As I look a little more ....I am feeling a hesitancy to sign up with LU because I fear getting drawn into some kind of freakish cult. I don't believe you are but I am just trying to be honest with what's going on here, with 'me'. Just don't ask me to drink any Kool-Aid or catch a ride on a passing comet with a bag full of gold coins! ; )
Other than that, I'm all in.

And I'm a gatecrasher from way back. Hard to keep me within the lines. So now I'm ready the crash THE gate.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I am currently on a 3 day solo silent retreat and fast at a Benedictine Hermitage in the hills of rural Maine for purification ,investigation, and clarification with the goal of realization of my True Being. I meditate 2 to 3 hours a day in my usual life…. more on this retreat, and several hours a day in reading spiritual texts and in contemplation. Currently my daily readings and watchings include A Course in Miracles, Michael Langford ‘s Seven Steps to Awakening, Bentinho Massaro”s teachings, The Bible, Nisargadatta Maharaj , Ramana Maharshi, and Rupert Spira... and an occasional smattering of videos or writings by Mooji, Gangaji, Abraham -Hicks, Lincoln Gergar, Paul Selig, The Law of One by Ra, The Holy Spirit's Interpretation of the New Testament and other writings by Regina Dawn Akers, and a few others…...or whoever else pops up YouTube recommendations in the same area. I search for the commonalities and the messages that ring true to my Being and my current evolution or Awakening. I am also assistant pastor of a local Congregational Church here in Maine and find it an interesting challenge to deliver Universal Truths through the strict language and interpretation of Christianity as it has been presented over the ages. But it's there!

Growing up I had a pretty rigorous education in science particularly physics, math and biology. My father was a university professor and he encouraged open debate and discussion. No shortage of strong opinions there! I was after an understanding of the universe ,the world and Truth as material Science described and understood it and it was all making sense to me but there were a few nagging questions that that paradigm couldn't or wouldn't answer… namely psychic phenomena near-death experiences past life Remembrance in children, evidential mediumship, channeled material,etc . These things fascinated me and I delved deeply into studying and reading all that I could about them. From a purely and openly scientific point of view, there is too much data there to simply ignore. This investigation led me deeper and deeper into ancient mystical spiritual truths from the Buddhists to the Hindus to the Christian Mystics . There seemed to be a commonality there that was remarkable.
My own spiritual search really began with an exploration of psychedelic drugs and Carlos Castaneda in the late 70s and early 80s and then was introduced to A Course in Miracles which I have been a student of since 1986. Shortly thereafter I was introduced to meditation and to channeled material beginning with Edgar Casey and then onto Emmanuel, The Seth Material, Michael, Abraham-Hicks, and Ra. And of course I came to realize most of the Bible, including the Gospels, are channeled...or 'inspired by the Holy Spirit' No good materialistic based explanation for any of those either. More data for my scientific self to ponder. I have been a Seeker and a questioner since a very early age. I don't care what the source , I'm interested in the Truth behind all sources. I didn't care what the Truth was...quarks and leptons, birth-life-death-lights-out, inseparability from a transcendent and loving creator., unicorns and leprechauns, ..I didn't care...I just wanted (and still want) to know the Truth...whatever it turns out to be. The realization of No- Self seems to be the culmination of all teachings and of my seeking. But I'm scared as hell at the thought of dissolving all that I know ...or think I know. Terrifying and exhilarating at the same time...like you feel when they strap you in on a roller coaster ride and it's about to take off.
Slowly over the years this has become the most important thing in my life and the thing that I dedicate the most waking hours to. I still feel a tension between my spiritual practice and the demands of my daily physical life…. my expectations and the expectations of my wife about keeping up with all the chores and tasks that need accomplishing... Or so we think. I still feel a lot of inner turmoil and anxiety around the past, present, and future. I am, however, a lot more at ease in my daily life than I think I have ever been and I'm grateful for that relief and a bit of a sense of well-being. I will slip into a stream of great gratitude in appreciation and even awe for all of the teachers and the availability of the teachings in this time of Global Communication . Like how I was able to find Liberation Unleashed so easily and quickly and I'm sitting here in the willy-wacks of Maine talking to you and filling out this form. Quite remarkable! Just think of all the moving parts and the people involved for that all to happen!
These Truths that I have been exposed to and allowed to infiltrate into my perspectives and my being are having their effect. My investigations and inquiry continues to deepen and broaden. Is there anything that is truly impossible? I am discovering the universe to be a much grander affair than anything I could have imagined.....or that contemporary material science presents. Wow....and where to next?? I am full of desire, eagerness, enthusiasm and a touch of fear...fear in the shape of unknown, uncertainty (we scientists like certainty) and loss...but I'm ready anyway. I have come this far...might as well keep going!

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
9

[CapnBoomer]

I see there are a bunch of us waiting for a Guide. Its an interesting time. I continue my inquiry, now in the direction of investigating the validity of this thing called 'self'. Reading Gate Crashers and following a few dialogs in the forum is quite helpful. I find myself often during the day just asking the question....'So, is there really no self here right now, and has there never been one...just the notion of one?' Its quite a show stopper. Could it be that there is no 'one' here and its just been missed? I follow the logic of it and it makes sense. If all that exists is responsible, or the cause of, all that exists how could there be a separate entity called "I". When I am thirsty and reach for a drink of water isnt that just the entirety of creation present and experiencing that movement? Am I responsible for the specific biology that evolved that requires this particular life form based on water, or even that it has a mouth and digestive system? Life could have, and possibly does ,exist is so many forms in the galaxies and across dimensions that the possibilities are infinite. Did I cause the glass to be there or for there to be water at all? Did 'I' make the silica that the glass is composed of..or has that happened over billions of years as stars and galaxies form, explode and reform finally winding up as our solar system and her planets one of which happens to contain a large amount of liquid water...(very rare). So how could an 'I' decide to have a drink of water. It is quite preposterous when looked at. Musings while I wait. I also feel my interest level rising from a 9. What else could I want but so see clearly that which is and that which is not?

[CapnBoomer]

So if there is is indeed no self, only the thought of one, then how can there be a "real' world out there? Is not the assumption of a world out there just as suspect as the 'I' thought? I have long assumed that there is an I moving around in a world. What if both assumptions are false? Are our dreams at night "real"? Is this computer on which I am typing any more or less 'real' than the one I was typing on last night in my "real dream world" I have seen some guide pointers that make reference to the world as real and the I as not real. For example here are some quotes...(Taken from Gate Crashers)

..... including that some labels describe real things, other labels describe imaginary things.

: To what does the word “self” point to in real life? Well, to nothing really. If I speak to you about the tree in front of my window, you will know what I mean. The tree is just a label but it points to some real thing, like this body sitting here or the glass on the table or the pen next to the computer.

Self is exactly the same as this. Exactly the same. What arise are thoughts, feelings and sensations in the body. They are real thoughts and feelings. But an actual self? That’s not real.

There is no self at all in real life, like there is no Batman and no pink elephants.This is where I like you to look now. Which words are pointing to real things in life that exist, and which words point to fiction?

I am not suggesting that the I is real because the world is real but I dont see how it is helpful to use a comparison to show how one thing is not real as compared to another thing that is real when both are equally, and ultimately, unreal. From what perspective are trees and thoughts in this "waking" dream real? Again, are the trees and thoughts I have in night time dreams "real"? Or is this ALL a dream and ALL equally unreal....the self, trees, thoughts, dreams etc ? Not that unreal equates to insignificant. Santa is unreal but highly significant. Perhaps our lives, our selves, our trees and thoughts are equally unreal and significant and meaningful..... just like jolly old Santa! What a show!

[Anastacia42]

Good morning CapnBoomer,

Hi,

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like. What name shall I call you, please?

One thing I want to make very clear up front is that with me, you must post every day. If you know yourself and your schedule are such that you cannot do this, tell me, "no," and someone else can guide you, please.
Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration. I realize this may be a little difficult for a minister, but see what you can do.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

One more thing, which is very very important. We will go into this in more depth shortly, but stop telling stories, please. I read your 3 intro posts. Now you must keep to simpler replies, stay out of stories and focus on what you're about to learn, which we call Actual or Direct Experience. No more long, wordy explanatory posts. They will not serve you. Deal?

Much love,

[CapnBoomer]

Hello Stacy
Thanks for being my guide and I happily agree to all your requests and requirements. I just re- read the mentioned LU material and I will be able to post daily. I am making arrangements to take a sabbatical from my Church duties and responsibilities  and will drop all other teachings,reading, rituals etc. I am reading Ilona's book and LU daily app.. Stop? Will stop my twice daily meditations if that is your recommendation. And I'll keep my responses short, sweet and honest. Thanks for the tough Love.

How will life change?

I have some ideas but, considering I have only known the "I" all my life I suspect they are fairly ,if not completely, useless and inaccurate.

How will you change?

Again, I have no real idea..only ideas or imaginings from the false vantage point of "me" and from teachings of others.

What will be different?

I suspect...Everything and nothing.

What is missing?

Nothing. It's all here. How could IT not be? There is nothing else other than This.

I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Sure thing!

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

Bennett will be fine and I am in UTC -4 hours....US East Coast.

I very much look forward to working with you.

Cheers!

Bennett

[Anastacia42]

Hi Bennett!

All very good. I'm looking forward to working with you. I'm in US Mountain Time, near Boulder, Colorado.

I am making arrangements to take a sabbatical from my Church duties and responsibilities and will drop all other teachings,reading, rituals etc. I am reading Ilona's book and LU daily app.. Stop? Will stop my twice daily meditations if that is your recommendation.

No, that's all very good. More than I thought you'd be able to do, really. It's fine to continue reading Ilona's book & LU app. It's also fine to continue your regular meditations.

Your expectations are reasonable. Everything & nothing changing is a good way to put it.

What is missing?
Nothing. It's all here. How could IT not be? There is nothing else other than This.

True.

Now this: What comes up when is read that there is no self, has never been & self is just a made up story?

Agape,

[CapnBoomer]

Hello Again, Stacy....

No, that's all very good. More than I thought you'd be able to do, really.

Me too.! I think I'm up to an 11...and will do whatever it takes....and you recommend.

Now this: What comes up when is read that there is no self, has never been & self is just a made up story?

I hear a distance roll of thunder from fear , it quickly dissipates and then I start chuckling to myself. Has it all been that big of a hoax? Really? Have I, we, been that gullible? I am still laughing at the absurdity of it all. That and a great sense of impending relief.
I look in the mirror brushing my teeth and wonder who it is I'm looking at looking back at me. Who is taking this shower? No one? I find that funny too.


Cheers

Bennett

[Anastacia42]

Good morning, Bennett!

Very good. The laughter can be a very good sign (or it could be nervousness). We laugh when we integrate a paradox.

The following should clear up a couple of things from your initial posts. This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.


Much love,

[CapnBoomer]

And a Good Morning to you too, Stacy

The laughter can be a very good sign (or it could be nervousness). We laugh when we integrate a paradox.

This did not feel like nervous laughter but a deep realization and a chuckle at.."so that's the game. The paradox I am finding confounding and delightful....and funny.

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

There does seem to be a third alternative..simply a Knowing. Beyond physical or linear evidence just an inner knowing. Sometimes our senses can fool us. Sure looks like the sun goes around the earth. I do get the point of the analogy and in that I am in 100% agreement. Is it that "Looking"can take many forms but is still looking? For me the socks, the person looking ,and the looking are all within the same "dream" and so can all be known by the dreamer. It is All This, after all.

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

Oddly enough when I look at this in honesty I find a lingering question that I dont seem to be able to shake just yet. And that is...Can we Trust our direct experience? How do we know we can when senses can be so easily fooled and our conditioning tells us quite emphatically that we cannot and must rely on collective experience and knowledge? Gotta ask the "experts".."THEY "know. And there have been plenty of times when I was quite certain of something only to find out it was not so. Would love some pointers here!

Bravely On!

Bennett

[Anastacia42]

Good morning, again, Bennett

This did not feel like nervous laughter but a deep realization and a chuckle at.."so that's the game. The paradox I am finding confounding and delightful....and funny.

Yes, that's what I thought. Those are fun.

Let me address some of the questions you raised in your intro posts, so they are covered and we can move into pointers without too much distraction.

I recall ACIM in your list of practices. Looking back, I see I started with it just the year before you did. Kept at it for 25 years. I feel that practice did loosen me up for this one, also for The Work of Byron Katie. Anyway . . .

Do you recall the somewhat tricky concept of Level Confusion? It has to do with confusing the Absolute with the relative. Somewhere in your 20-page initial posts :) I seem to recall a question to which that was the answer.

Level Confusion includes getting upset when someone uses pronouns & labels and someone else jumps on them saying they aren't "real." They are not, but we use them to communicate, even though we know this. Also, the word, "real?" I don't use it. It is too sticky and too laden with baggage and meanings.

There does seem to be a third alternative..simply a Knowing. Beyond physical or linear evidence just an inner knowing. Sometimes our senses can fool us. Sure looks like the sun goes around the earth. I do get the point of the analogy and in that I am in 100% agreement. Is it that "Looking"can take many forms but is still looking? For me the socks, the person looking ,and the looking are all within the same "dream" and so can all be known by the dreamer. It is All This, after all.

Yes, you're right. A third and truer alternative. The question presupposes that the client has not yet discovered what you mention or as you say, the Colored Socks exercise uses the LOOKING at socks as an analogy.

This answer treads close to Level Confusion. Yes, the person, the looking and the socks are all one within the same "dream." But it is asked from the level of helping you to understand the difference between LOOKING and just thinking to find answers to the pointers I am giving you.

Hopefully, this one time addressing this will be enough. I do not wish to be drawn down this rabbit hole over and over while we try to communicate about that which is Wordless. OK? Thanks!

when I look at this in honesty I find a lingering question that I dont seem to be able to shake just yet. And that is...Can we Trust our direct experience? How do we know we can when senses can be so easily fooled and our conditioning tells us quite emphatically that we cannot and must rely on collective experience and knowledge? Gotta ask the "experts".."THEY "know. And there have been plenty of times when I was quite certain of something only to find out it was not so. Would love some pointers here!

Alright, maybe you are ready for this kind of answer, maybe you are not. "Trust" is a control issue. It is about wanting certainty or control about what someone or something - even life - will or will not do. I suggest to stop worrying about it here. It's another rabbit hole. Logic and thinking are just rabbit holes here. They lead nowhere in the pursuit of SEEING no self.

They have their place in the relative world, yes. An excellent book on this topic is On Being Certain: Believing You Are Right Even When You Are Wrong by Robert Burton.

And there have been plenty of times when I was quite certain of something only to find out it was not so.

The illusion of a separate self will be one of those.

We will also do pointers about control, free will, intention, choice, but not yet.

In our pointers here, trust is irrelevant. We are simply noting that Direct or Actual Experience happens - with no interpretation, no story, no labeling. It is just there. That is where we focus to find out whether there is a self or not. We are not "trusting" it to do or be anything or show us anything. It just is and it is observed.

Everything else is a story, a label, that was made up. Yes, we could even call them lies. I believe you did above.

You mentioned many channeled works in your intro. I no longer buy the story of "channeling." Haven't for a long time. I think that the person speaking or writing is accessing their "own" deeper wisdom and how that works I don't know and don't care. The best I can do is think of it as metaphor. However, I find much of it offensively arrogant and commercial. And, since seeing no self, no longer seeking, there is no use for any of it. That's me. Your Mileage May Vary.

One last thing I want to address from your intro, and that is the question about whether or not this is a cult. It is not. You will be guided here, just you and me. If and when you SEE no self, it will be confirmed by myself and others to be sure I did not miss anything. Then you are invited to the completely optional Facebook Aftercare groups, if you want to share with like-minded others who have the same understanding you do. That's what I came for. There are precious few in this world who know there is no separate self. The comaraderie of those folks is invaluable to me. But it is totally optional. And I don't know *anyone* who even likes Kool-Aid!

I appreciate that you are keeping to shorter answers. That is SO helpful. But I did want to address some of your concerns. I think I hit the big ones, but if you have burning questions, doubts, etc. don't hesitate to ask. I've been around LU almost 4 years and a friend of mine has been around for 3 times that, someone I trust. If any Kool-Aid were going round, I believe one of us would have noticed.

Okay, since we had established some guidelines and I put out there how to LOOK, I wanted to go back and address some of those first concerns. I'm done with that, and hopefully, this is enough for you, too. We are not here to discuss philosophy or beliefs. I am here to point and you are here to LOOK. We will avoid content of thought as much as possible and focus on Actual or Direct Experience (the list in green above).

Let's move on!


Here is a simple exercise to be sure you are distinguishing between Direct Experience and stories (content of thought) *about* DE

Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

I would like you to try this as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought arising.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and post one or more lists ***exactly*** like the one above. Exactly is emphasized because several clients have gone off and posted lists that were far afield from this and missed the entire purpose of the exercise.

Refer to this green list of Actual/Direct Experience for help. You will refer to this often doing these exercises.

Direct or Actual Experience is:

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, things bodies can feel, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content, which is made-up)

Relax & have fun with this and all exercises. We have to relax to SEE.

Much love,

[CapnBoomer]

Ahh Stacy...That was brilliant and so direct. I laughed and laughed. Thank you thank you for helping me see the mind workings in my initial entry...all 20 plus pages....and I dont like kool-aid either so I dont know what I was even (jokingly) worried about. Do they even still make the stuff?

Hopefully, this one time addressing this will be enough. I do not wish to be drawn down this rabbit hole over and over while we try to communicate about that which is Wordless. OK? Thanks!

And agreed..no more rabbits or their mysterious holes. Your explanation has cleared those up for me and one visit to them is enough. I can set them aside now, thank you.

Okay, since we had established some guidelines and I put out there how to LOOK, I wanted to go back and address some of those first concerns. I'm done with that, and hopefully, this is enough for you, too.

Yes very much enough and ready to move on. I appreciate you taking the time to look into these, "my" , ideas and beliefs. I am happy to see that I can be free of them.

And there have been plenty of times when I was quite certain of something only to find out it was not so.

The illusion of a separate self will be one of those.

Yes, Yes! Full body ..tears down my face ..belly laugh.

On the the exercise...


Working in the woodshop

Seeing the wood, simply =image,color,shape
Smelling wood dust, simply =smell
Feeling the wood in my hands, simply =sensation
Hearing the sound of the table saw, simply=sound
Thought about the project at hand, simply=thought

Sitting in meditation

Seeing the candle flame, simply = color, image
Seeing the pool of liquid wax at the base of the flame,simply=color ,image
Smelling the smoke, simply=smell
Feeling my hands in my lap, simply=sensation
Feeling a throbbing in my head,simply=sensation
Hearing traffic go by outside, simply=sound
Hearing the fridge running, simply=sound
Thoughts about my thoughts, simply=thought
Thoughts about this exercise, simply=thought
Hearing the ringing in my ears,simply=sound

I find these exercises oddly centering and calming in a simple yet profound way.

Many thanks again.

Cheers!

Bennett

[Anastacia42]

Hi Bennett,

You're quite welcome!

I looked it up. Yes, it appears they still make Kool-Aid. Yuck.

The illusion of a separate self will be one of those.
Yes, Yes! Full body ..tears down my face ..belly laugh.

Truth Tears I call those.

You've got the exercise right. Keep the distinction between Actual Experience and stories *about* AE in mind as we go.

Now try this one, please:

Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labeled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?


Much love,

[CapnBoomer]

Hello Stacy, Shall I continue my day with the first exercise?

On to Mind Labeling Exercise

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

When I look over the two lists it seems like they are both true from their own perspectives. I dont get a sense one is “truer” than the other. Is any part or perspective within a dream “truer” than another or are they both equally part of that dream and so both ultimately unTrue? Both are “real’ from their own point of view and thus significant but neither are ultimately Real.

2. What is here without labels?

Hmm..To answer that, wouldn't it involve labels? But, that aside, and to give it my best shot from this “level” ….What is here without labels?.....This, whatever it is.

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

Both. It describes perception of the experience and the labels themselves color, filter and/or limit the experience.

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Noticed a tightening of my stomach in the first part of the exercise, and then a slight easing of that along with an overwhelming sleepiness in the second part.

Many thanks again.

See you soon.

Bennett

[Anastacia42]

Good morning!

You mean should you continue noticing what is Actual Experience & what is story? Yes. Always good to notice that.

You have a lot of knowledge, a lot of mental sophistication in your replies. The only trouble is that replies are coming from thinking, from what you "know" more than from what is SEEN.

Is any part or perspective within a dream “truer” than another or are they both equally part of that dream and so both ultimately unTrue? Both are “real’ from their own point of view and thus significant but neither are ultimately Real.

While this is true, it caused you to almost miss the point of the exercise.

Check again. Is one truer than the other? How does your gut feel reading each list? It is probably different.

Hmm..To answer that, wouldn't it involve labels? But, that aside, and to give it my best shot from this “level” ….What is here without labels?.....This, whatever it is.

Same thing. You're shooting yourself in the foot with "right answers." Don't try to go beyond the question. Instead, LOOK. What is here without labels? There IS an answer.

Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

Both. It describes perception of the experience and the labels themselves color, filter and/or limit the experience.

No, in Actual Experience, in LOOKING & not thinking, "both" is not accurate. Do labels make water dry & not wet? Would a label make the sky green & not blue? No.

I do see what you mean, but the answer avoids LOOKING & SEEING only Direct Experience. You're leap-frogging over the point of the exercise: the focus on Direct Experience. That won't help here.

tightening of my stomach

There! This is the main point of the exercise!

Can you remember a time when you lied to someone you love?

We've all done it. "Mom, I'm going to the library" No, you're not. You're going to your girlfriend's & her parents aren't home. "How are you?" I'm fine. No, you are worried about something & you don't want to talk about it.

What Sensation arises when you lie?

Much love,

[Anastacia42]

Quick addition:

What is here without labels?.....This, whatever it is.

Whatever it is would be what? What is it we focus on?

Loving,