The Gate

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I have the concept of no self and I want to go through this journey and get the experience. Like many others, I went through many situations and I feel all those situations happened to me so that I finally realize something important.

What are you looking for at LU?
I do practice stopping the mind and watching the reality as it is. And I feel scary, I started crying in the nights because of the resistance of my mind. I am looking for like-minded people as those who are surrounding me are far behind.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
if I may request your support in guiding me through this journey through any support you provide, I would be very much grateful .I really feel scary to go alone through it. I am ready to take it. Thank you.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Last year was a very terrible period. Not because pf pandemic. I was sexually harassed by the colleague in the hotel when I was on mission. It was a hardship duty station and on top of it a full lockdown. I stayed alone in the hotel for months before I was evacuated and this is how I started looking for an answer. But what answer I was looking for, I still don't know. I never mediated, I tried but I found it boring. The movie that really impressed me was Inner and Outer Worlds by Daniel Schmidt. I could hardly understand the concept but I felt that I wanted to watch it over and over again. I watched it more about 20 times. I started practicing the Alchemy of Breath which gave me a temporary relief but still I felt that it was not yet what I am looking for. I started watching the videos of Dima Elistratov (https://www.instagram.com/dima_elistratov/) and it changed everything. Just recently he published your book and this is how I found your website.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

Hi Bacham,

I would like to help out, if you like. I read your story and can relate somewhat to your writing. Seems like some rough period you went through. Hopefully you're feeling a little better now. I would like to reassure you though that there is nothing to fear with this no-self business. It's just investigating your experience and becoming clearer and clearer on what's already always been the case. That doesn't sound too bad, does it?

Some suggestions:
- It can be useful to post regularly, without too many gaps, for instance every day. This would help to get you in a momentum, but it's up to you of course.
- Please learn to use the quote function; viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660
- You can subscribe to this thread, so you'll receive a message when I reply. See the button next to 'Post Reply'.
- Please, don't insist on a specific outcome for this investigation :-)

How about jumping right in to the main crux?
Can you find for me an experience where the label 'hand' refers to? (just look to your hand and say 'yes';-) ) Can you then find the experience the label 'table' refers to? Can you then sit, close your eyes and look for the experience the word self/person/Bacham refers to? If you find it, can you please describe it? If not, what do you make of that?

Much love,
Floris

Dear Floris,

Thank you very much for replying and offering your time and help! I really appreciate it!

My answers are:

1. The hand refers to the body
2. The table refers to the room or better to nothing, it's just there.
3. and Bacham..., to nothing. When I close my eyes, I see a clear picture that there is nothing, black picture and nothing, emptiness.

With love,

Bacham

Hi Bacham,

Thank you very much for replying and offering your time and help! I really appreciate it!

Thank you very much too, for allowing me to be of service! I like your name, btw:-)

1. The hand refers to the body
2. The table refers to the room or better to nothing, it's just there.
3. and Bacham..., to nothing. When I close my eyes, I see a clear picture that there is nothing, black picture and nothing, emptiness.

So, are you saying there is no such thing as a Bacham? What are you then? If you don't know, that's perfectly fine (with me). How is the reading and responding to this message happening? Is there some thing, some entity, that is you, doing it? Does it feel like you're a body?

Much love,
Floris

Hello Floris,

I like your name, btw:-)

And your name sounds like a flower:)

So, are you saying there is no such thing as a Bacham? What are you then? If you don't know, that's perfectly fine (with me).

I am afraid of guessing because I don't want to say something that I have already read about. However, when I close my eyes, there is nothing, this is I can say for sure. I immediately feel that I have no shapes. It feels like a smoke.

How is the reading and responding to this message happening?

I never think about it. And only now when you ask me I understand that its a kind of duality. Body functions separately.

Is there some thing, some entity, that is you, doing it? Does it feel like you're a body?

During the day, yes I feel that I am the body. and its soooo difficult to switch. And should I switch. I feel it should come naturally. When I am home alone, particularly before a sleep, I allocate 30 minutes to detach my body and it works.

With love,

Bacham

Hello Bacham,

And your name sounds like a flower:)

Agreed! I think it means something like 'flowering' in latin.

I am afraid of guessing because I don't want to say something that I have already read about. However, when I close my eyes, there is nothing, this is I can say for sure. I immediately feel that I have no shapes. It feels like a smoke.

Yes, I can relate. Do you mean nothing, as in, no-thing? That sounds good:-)

During the day, yes I feel that I am the body. and its soooo difficult to switch. And should I switch. I feel it should come naturally. When I am home alone, particularly before a sleep, I allocate 30 minutes to detach my body and it works.

My idea is too to just let happen what will and only do things because it attracts you. So when you say "I feel that I am the body", what is meant by the word 'I' here? Is that referring to the identity structure (linked with the body) or something else?

About the body, is there really a body? Or could it be that there are what we could appear some appearances, sometimes a handappearance, sometimes a legappearance, etc, when looking down, and all these appearances are just put together into a concept of 'a body'?

I never think about it. And only now when you ask me I understand that its a kind of duality. Body functions separately.

Is there a identity of being a doer? Maybe it's good when you're eating, driving, or some automatic task like that, to watch how that happens and if you can find a doer of it. If you do, I would be curious to your findings.

love,
Floris

Hello Floris,

Thank you very much for being with "me":)

Yes, I can relate. Do you mean nothing, as in, no-thing? That sounds good:-)

Exactly! No-thing. No shapes...

My idea is too to just let happen what will and only do things because it attracts you. So when you say "I feel that I am the body", what is meant by the word 'I' here? Is that referring to the identity structure (linked with the body) or something else?

"I" relates to idea or thought. I was trying to find it and couldn't, I stopped. And there was also a kind of relief of what happened to me in the past, the things that I couldn't accept. I just stopped torturing myself by asking the question - why me? why with me? However, this feeling of relief is very fragile but sweet. I can feel when I am alone with myself.

About the body, is there really a body? Or could it be that there are what we could appear some appearances, sometimes a handappearance, sometimes a legappearance, etc, when looking down, and all these appearances are just put together into a concept of 'a body'?

It's a concept of "a body" which could have another name or appearance. its clear.

Is there a identity of being a doer? Maybe it's good when you're eating, driving, or some automatic task like that, to watch how that happens and if you can find a doer of it. If you do, I would be curious to your findings.

I saw your message yesterday evening and when I reached this question, I decided not to reply. I was confused. I open it again when I came to the office this morning. When I had my coffee I clearly saw that it's just happening. There is no one who is doing it. It's just happening. At some point it's scary...of not being a concept "I" and "body'

With love,

Bacham

Floris, dear...., want to share with you something. Just now I was a bit emotional with a colleague where I pushed the idea "I did", "it's me", "I know the system", "I", "I" and again "I". When I got back to my desk I realized that there is no "I' and who was emotional and upset of not being recognized. I am typing this message now and feel a bit sad, sad about the fact that its sooo simple!

Hello Bacham,

Thank you very much for being with "me":)

You're very welcome! :-)

"I" relates to idea or thought. I was trying to find it and couldn't, I stopped. And there was also a kind of relief of what happened to me in the past, the things that I couldn't accept. I just stopped torturing myself by asking the question - why me? why with me? However, this feeling of relief is very fragile but sweet. I can feel when I am alone with myself.

I saw your message yesterday evening and when I reached this question, I decided not to reply. I was confused. I open it again when I came to the office this morning. When I had my coffee I clearly saw that it's just happening. There is no one who is doing it. It's just happening. At some point it's scary...of not being a concept "I" and "body'

Beautiful! Thank you for your sharing. Of course, if certain words like I/me/my/mine are used, that's fine because that's how we use language. But right now, I feel like pressing onwards with it, and go on a little identity hunt. Is/was there still a felt identity about these following sentences?:
- I was trying to find it and couldn't, I stopped
- And there was also a kind of relief of what happened to me in the past, the things that I couldn't accept.
- I just stopped torturing myself
- I can feel when I am alone with myself.
- Okay, not going to select all the I's in the next paragraph 'I saw', 'I decided', 'I was confused' .. ..

Is there any sort of entity/being/self that could create a separation from all experience, so that something is able to happen to a you? Or could the no-thingness that you felt yourself to be, be the experience itself, and so therefor, no seperation is experienced? There is an exercise I sometimes use, which is related to this. I'll post it in the next reply, it looked a little much for one post otherwise.

If you look at the sentence 'I was confused .." for example, and look at the experience and try to write it so that it's as close to your experience as you can make it, then how would you (re)write that sentence?

Floris, dear...., want to share with you something. Just now I was a bit emotional with a colleague where I pushed the idea "I did", "it's me", "I know the system", "I", "I" and again "I". When I got back to my desk I realized that there is no "I' and who was emotional and upset of not being recognized. I am typing this message now and feel a bit sad, sad about the fact that its sooo simple!

Ha, it's a little simple right. But we could beat around the bush more and talk more fancy and scientific sounding words if that pleases you ;). But, could the sadness also be there, because there was the felt loss of a part of the identity, which at some level was maybe gotten some satisfaction from? If that, then I would say that's quite a common reaction. But that sadness is of course only temporarily, and afterwards you might start appreciation the extra lightness of the experience.

With love,
Floris

Hello Floris,

The last questions have put resistance and blockage. There was a feeling of running away and hide.

I feel like pressing onwards with it, and go on a little identity hunt. Is/was there still a felt identity about these following sentences?:
- I was trying to find it and couldn't, I stopped
- And there was also a kind of relief of what happened to me in the past, the things that I couldn't accept.
- I just stopped torturing myself
- I can feel when I am alone with myself.
- Okay, not going to select all the I's in the next paragraph 'I saw', 'I decided', 'I was confused' .. ..

Is there any sort of entity/being/self that could create a separation from all experience, so that something is able to happen to a you? Or could the no-thingness that you felt yourself to be, be the experience itself, and so therefor, no separation is experienced? There is an exercise I sometimes use, which is related to this. I'll post it in the next reply, it looked a little much for one post otherwise.

That morning in the office there was no-thingness. There was a very clear picture of it. BUT the same day afternoon, when there was tons of things on the table, that feeling disappeared. It comes back only in salience. Or try to cheat myself.

If you look at the sentence 'I was confused .." for example, and look at the experience and try to write it so that it's as close to your experience as you can make it, then how would you (re)write that sentence?

It was scary to look beyond the body borders.

Ha, it's a little simple right. But we could beat around the bush more and talk more fancy and scientific sounding words if that pleases you ;). But, could the sadness also be there, because there was the felt loss of a part of the identity, which at some level was maybe gotten some satisfaction from? If that, then I would say that's quite a common reaction. But that sadness is of course only temporarily, and afterwards you might start appreciation the extra lightness of the experience.

Definitely the sadness was there and it was caused by a feeling of loosing the identity. There a feeling of going around and round and not seeing it clearly, only short fragments.

Sending you lots of love from Bangladesh (my body current duty station:)

Bacham

Dear Bacham,

The last questions have put resistance and blockage. There was a feeling of running away and hide.

Is this why your reply was a little later than normal? And the questions you talked about were the "Is there any sort of entity/being/self ... no separation is experienced?"?
I think you are doing very well with this. And why not be a little gentle with yourself when you feel some of these things. We can also go a little slower if you prefer. Whenever an emotion comes up, it's also a good opportunity to relax and let go a little deeper. You're just letting go of some blockages so more of the wonderful being that you are can come through. No worries, you will be very much alright :-)

Okay, how about something perhaps a little more light and fun to you:

Let's investigate sight/seeing. Most people feel that they are entities who are perceiving things, like the sight of a dog, the sound of a car, the sensations of touching something. This is evident in statements such as 'I am seeing a hand'. There are 3 things there to look at now:
- The 'I am' which is seeing the hand'
- The 'seeing' which is what this 'I' is doing/undergoing
- The 'hand' which is the seen object by the 'I'.

Let's investigate this.
Look at sort of object and answer these questions from your experience:
- Can you find an I which is (doing) seeing?
- Can you find eyes or anything else, which are (doing) seeing?
- Can you find the experience 'the seen thing, e.g. the hand' going to a place in the head where it is received and/or processed like a brain?
- Can you find something which is interpreting the seen thing?

After these, 'go to' (notice) the experience called seeing, and then 'go to' the experience called the seen thing, e.g. the hand. Toggle your attention between the place/experience of these two thing, the 'seeing' and the 'seen thing(s)', and answer:
- Can you find a difference between what you call seeing and the seen (the room, hand, other objects, etc)?
- Would it be accurate to say these are the same experience?

If you would try to rewrite the sentence of 'I am seeing a hand' as much in line with your experience as you can, how would you do that?

Sending you lots of love from Bangladesh (my body current duty station:)

Receiving and sending lots of love back from the Netherlands (although frankly it looks more like a loving dreamworld haha ;-) )

Hello dear Floris,

Is this why your reply was a little later than normal?

Exactly! Because my brain finds different reasons but the feeling of moving forward id definitely stronger. I should say that this is the first time when I don't push myself a a kind of obligation. The feeling of going through this experience comes naturally. I worked with psychologists for two years with some breaks, where I really had to push myself.

And the questions you talked about were the "Is there any sort of entity/being/self ... no separation is experienced?"?

A complete separation has not yet happened. I still need more time.

Let's investigate this.
Look at sort of object and answer these questions from your experience:
- Can you find an I which is (doing) seeing?

There is no an I which is seeing. It’s like staying in a dark room when one can’t see his/her body but still there is an evidence (experience) of existence. It helped me a bit with a fear of not having the family. I work for the United Nations in emergencies. This job involves the constant moving from one country to another. It’s indeed interesting and exciting to meet new people, new cultures and most importantly to change the lives of those in need. However, a few years ago I realized that I feel bad when I see the colleagues going home for Christmas and I never had such feeling. I simply wanted to run away from the problems with relatives and my son (he is lost and it brings me so much pain as his mother). The idea of having a family like a fortress where I could come and be protected sounded like a dream that would never come true. It was indeed an idea – illusion. All these years I had a feeling that there was something, I worked with phycologists for a couple of years. There was a progress but it was a temporary solution. In all this something was missing, I could feel that there should be a piece to put the puzzle (called the life) together. I started reading and watching the books and movies but dropped very fast. The last March was a kind of apogee – lockdown in the country where even UN flights couldn’t reach it and an appalling experience with the colleague I trusted…. My mind was absolutely convinced that the only solution is to commit suicide and finish with a terrible life. It was too much. Sorry for telling you my story. I understand that you read dozen or hundreds terrible life stories being the Guide. What I want to say is that by realizing there is no an I. An I is just a thought, which comes and goes away, it brings some peace but not yet a complete liberation. I am not yet capable to stay in it even 20%. At least I put in practice and see ‘who’ gets angry, upset, sad or happy, so it feels different and less thoughts of suicide if something goes wrong or I won’t find my path. What can go wrong or right? What path I am looking for if it doesn’t exist? I ask myself these questions and can partially see that there is no an I. It also helped me a bit to adjust myself to Bangladesh. Why a bit? Because mostly my brain is busy with other illusions career, work routine, thoughts about future and again how come I ended up with Bangladesh. I never worked in this part of the world. When I arrived, many things looked like a false mirror. I was trying to change the duty station but at least slowed down with this idea.. Trust me I am not looking for a magic pill or angels to come down from the Heaven. I simply want to get this experience and it doesn’t matter what part of the world my body is. Thank you for reading this and being still with me.

- Can you find eyes or anything else, which are (doing) seeing?

No, I can’t find it.

- Can you find the experience 'the seen thing, e.g. the hand' going to a place in the head where it is received and/or processed like a brain?

If I see the thing I understand that my brain identifies the object(s) and classifies them.

- Can you find something which is interpreting the seen thing?

The brain? As there is no one who can do it. It’s scary as I feel (as an identity) that I am losing the control which is again an illusion and it makes me crazy:(((. I am afraid that I will get stuck in this duality and will never get out of it, a complete separation won’t happen and suffers will continue.

After these, 'go to' (notice) the experience called seeing, and then 'go to' the experience called the seen thing, e.g. the hand. Toggle your attention between the place/experience of these two thing, the 'seeing' and the 'seen thing(s)', and answer:
- Can you find a difference between what you call seeing and the seen (the room, hand, other objects, etc)?

‘The seeing’ - the life is happening and there is no control over it, whether ‘I’ want it or not. ‘The seen’ is when the brain focuses of a particular object/objects, thoughts, positive or negative situation(s). It’s an illusion.

- Would it be accurate to say these are the same experience?

Of course not, completely different, where with the first, it follows with acceptance of what is happening and the see things is different. How to accept an illusion?

If you would try to rewrite the sentence of 'I am seeing a hand' as much in line with your experience as you can, how would you do that?

There object called ‘hand’ is there but there is not one who can see the hand and there is no one who owns and manages it.

Sorry, a bit longer today.

have a lovely weekend!

Bacham

Hi Bacham,

Thank you for your reply.

It’s indeed interesting and exciting to meet new people, new cultures and most importantly to change the lives of those in need.

I can relate!

It helped me a bit with a fear of not having the family. I work for the United Nations in emergencies. This job involves the constant moving from one country to another. It’s indeed interesting and exciting to meet new people, new cultures and most importantly to change the lives of those in need. However, a few years ago I realized that I feel bad when I see the colleagues going home for Christmas and I never had such feeling. I simply wanted to run away from the problems with relatives and my son (he is lost and it brings me so much pain as his mother). The idea of having a family like a fortress where I could come and be protected sounded like a dream that would never come true. It was indeed an idea – illusion. All these years I had a feeling that there was something, I worked with phycologists for a couple of years. There was a progress but it was a temporary solution. In all this something was missing, I could feel that there should be a piece to put the puzzle (called the life) together. I started reading and watching the books and movies but dropped very fast. The last March was a kind of apogee – lockdown in the country where even UN flights couldn’t reach it and an appalling experience with the colleague I trusted…. My mind was absolutely convinced that the only solution is to commit suicide and finish with a terrible life. It was too much. Sorry for telling you my story. I understand that you read dozen or hundreds terrible life stories being the Guide. What I want to say is that by realizing there is no an I. An I is just a thought, which comes and goes away, it brings some peace but not yet a complete liberation. I am not yet capable to stay in it even 20%. At least I put in practice and see ‘who’ gets angry, upset, sad or happy, so it feels different and less thoughts of suicide if something goes wrong or I won’t find my path. What can go wrong or right? What path I am looking for if it doesn’t exist? I ask myself these questions and can partially see that there is no an I. It also helped me a bit to adjust myself to Bangladesh. Why a bit? Because mostly my brain is busy with other illusions career, work routine, thoughts about future and again how come I ended up with Bangladesh. I never worked in this part of the world. When I arrived, many things looked like a false mirror. I was trying to change the duty station but at least slowed down with this idea.. Trust me I am not looking for a magic pill or angels to come down from the Heaven. I simply want to get this experience and it doesn’t matter what part of the world my body is. Thank you for reading this and being still with me.

Thank you. I'll just share how I see it. Direct your focus on things, or do things, that feel good to you. Of all that you can do right now, what option contains the better feeling, the more attraction, curiosity, the most excitement or joy? With other words, and it's the same thing, what can you do right now that offers the path of least resistance? What that you can do right now, feels the least bad? Guide yourself by following your attraction/joy/excitement/well-being, and not by what your mind thinks is best. Maybe it's taking a walk in the moment, maybe reading a book, maybe calling someone, doesn't matter, whatever makes you feel a little better than before. Whatever attracts you, do that, no matter what anyone or your own mind says. As I understand it, that way you will let yourself be guided by your soul, who knows you very well and knows all that is best for you and knows how to guide you very well. No need to worry so much, and also no need to try so hard;-). I feel Abraham Hicks might resonate with you, so if that holds some attraction, you could look into that. Anyway, you coming here and as you said, don't feel that you have to push yourself, is a very good indication i.m.o. that you're doing the right thing. And if you ever feel that expressing more of your story feels right, then you're very welcome to do so.

A complete separation has not yet happened. I still need more time.

That's okay. I just meant if it were those questions that made you feel some confusion.

No, I can’t find it.

Good.

If I see the thing I understand that my brain identifies the object(s) and classifies them.

Okay, but is this derived from your experience?

The brain? As there is no one who can do it. It’s scary as I feel (as an identity) that I am losing the control which is again an illusion and it makes me crazy:(((. I am afraid that I will get stuck in this duality and will never get out of it, a complete separation won’t happen and suffers will continue.

Hmm, same thing here, you only need to describe your experience;-) But are you this identity? Can you look at this identity and describe what it is? Does it look like it consists out of thoughts+feelings? Is that you?
Okay, but you really experience separation? From what to what? What self do you find that could be separated from anything? OR, could it be, just perhaps, that your experience is already without duality/separation? Next exercise might help you get that more clear if it isn't yet.

‘The seeing’ - the life is happening and there is no control over it, whether ‘I’ want it or not. ‘The seen’ is when the brain focuses of a particular object/objects, thoughts, positive or negative situation(s). It’s an illusion.

Okay, In my experience there isn't any brain found that focuses on anything. There is just the seeing, or sensing, hearing, feeling, thinking. Does that resonate?

Of course not, completely different, where with the first, it follows with acceptance of what is happening and the see things is different. How to accept an illusion?

Okay, I'll describe my experience and let's see if you relate to it. No seer gets found. Also, "I" don't find two things involved in seeing, that is, one thing that is called 'seeing' and the other 'what is seen'. Frankly there is just one experience, and so I am fine calling the lamp, to be just 'seeing' too. The lamp is just seeing/experiencing. Another way of saying it, is seeing or sight, not just colors? So could we call the presence of colors the experience of seeing/on what is seen?

Wishing you a lovely weekend too,
Floris

Thank you. I'll just share how I see it. Direct your focus on things, or do things, that feel good to you. Of all that you can do right now, what option contains the better feeling, the more attraction, curiosity, the most excitement or joy? With other words, and it's the same thing, what can you do right now that offers the path of least resistance? What that you can do right now, feels the least bad? Guide yourself by following your attraction/joy/excitement/well-being, and not by what your mind thinks is best. Maybe it's taking a walk in the moment, maybe reading a book, maybe calling someone, doesn't matter, whatever makes you feel a little better than before. Whatever attracts you, do that, no matter what anyone or your own mind says. As I understand it, that way you will let yourself be guided by your soul, who knows you very well and knows all that is best for you and knows how to guide you very well. No need to worry so much, and also no need to try so hard;-). I feel Abraham Hicks might resonate with you, so if that holds some attraction, you could look into that. Anyway, you coming here and as you said, don't feel that you have to push yourself, is a very good indication i.m.o. that you're doing the right thing. And if you ever feel that expressing more of your story feels right, then you're very welcome to do so.

Hi Floris, and I really really appreciate it!

Okay, but is this derived from your experience?

Certainly! This questions was always there who gives the names to the objects? And why a table is called 'table' and not ' chair'...not that my mind was bothered but questioned from time to time. Now, the answer is clear.

Hmm, same thing here, you only need to describe your experience;-) But are you this identity? Can you look at this identity and describe what it is? Does it look like it consists out of thoughts+feelings? Is that you?

Hahaha - laughing loudly! Capital NO!

Okay, In my experience there isn't any brain found that focuses on anything. There is just the seeing, or sensing, hearing, feeling, thinking. Does that resonate?

Yes, it all comes together sensing+hearing+seeing.

Okay, I'll describe my experience and let's see if you relate to it. No seer gets found. Also, "I" don't find two things involved in seeing, that is, one thing that is called 'seeing' and the other 'what is seen'. Frankly there is just one experience, and so I am fine calling the lamp, to be just 'seeing' too. The lamp is just seeing/experiencing. Another way of saying it, is seeing or sight, not just colors? So could we call the presence of colors the experience of seeing/on what is seen?

Interesting example. if the lamp is off, its still there. The same with the close eyes. if the eyes are closed and the dark screen is seen, the sense/sight is still there.

With love,

Bacham

Hi Floris, and I really really appreciate it!

Hi Bacham, and you're welcome.

Certainly! This questions was always there who gives the names to the objects? And why a table is called 'table' and not ' chair'...not that my mind was bothered but questioned from time to time. Now, the answer is clear.

So it is certainly from your experience that the brain is doing that?

Hahaha - laughing loudly! Capital NO!

Glad you see that! Does it feel true that identity is just this collection of mental impressions and stories that have been gathered throughout the years?

Interesting example. if the lamp is off, its still there. The same with the close eyes. if the eyes are closed and the dark screen is seen, the sense/sight is still there.

Okay, but if you look to the lamp, or more accurately if you focus in such a way that a lampappearance comes, what is that made of? Can we just call this lamp just perception or color (or a color pattern) or experiencing or seeing? And so when you close your eyes, or more accurately when the dark screen appearance comes, isn't the lampappearance gone? I know that by far the largest part of humanity really feels that they are bodies, and thus then everything around the body are felt to be objects to. And then it's felt that since everything around me (the body) are objects, this exists independent of me. But this is not your experience. Let's do something which might push what we've done a little further:

Normally we say 'I hear a noise', so, let's explore that. notice the sounds that are going on around you and inquire:
- can you find something which is doing the hearing? An I, ears, a body..
- Can you find 'hearing', or can you just find the sound? Or perhaps we could turn it around, and label 'the sound' instead as 'hearing'?
- do you notice how images/thoughts are imposed onto the experience?

After doing that, is 'I hear a sound/bird/car' an accurate description of your experience? If not, how would you phrase it to make it as accurate as possible?

Here to take it into a little other direction. Sit down, relax, close your eyes. And focus on the sounds you're hearing around you. These sounds are usually called or thought of as outside of you. Now make an 'internal sound' in your mind. These sounds are usually called or thought of as inside you. Now if you go back and forth with your attention between these two sounds (the outside and inside sound), there should be a border of sorts that your attention passes if there really is such a thing as an inside or outside. Check this, go from what is called the inside sound, to the outside sound, and see if you can find a boundary or border where the inside space is left, and outside space is gone into by attention. Is such a border found? Is there a place where the inside space stops, and an outside space begins, or could it be the same space?

love,
Floris