Try again!

[Gerd]

Hallo Everybody,

I have been guided in this process since August 20 until now. In the last few weeks it was difficult for me. I was a bit confused and had the feeling that I got stuck. I would like to stay in this process and in order to get clearer in the whole process I want to ask for a new guide.

- LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?

A separate 'Self' doesn't exist. A separate 'Self' is just a thought. I agree and understand, that a separate 'Self' cannot be found. So there is no separate 'Self'. Everything is interconnected. I am not sure if I really see through this.

- What are you looking for at LU?

I am looking for guidance for liberation from my'Self'.

- What do you expect from a guided conversation?

I expect to get liberated from my'Self'. I hope to get more in contact with the true nature of life. Getting relieved from the thoughts in the mind. Not taking happenings too personal. Experiencing life as an impersonal process. Finding peace.

- What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?

30 years of interest in 'spiritual' topics. 20 years of meditation practice. 5 years of reading books, hearing (Youtube), doing retreats in the topic of non-duality.

- On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?

10

Thank You, Gerd

[Lubo]

Hi Gerd,
Wellcome here again.
I'm glad you're continuing your research. I haven't read your previous thread. And there is no need.
My name is Lubo and I can joint you in this investigation, if you are OK?

I read your introduction several times.
From your introduction, I understand that this imaginary self is not a such pleasant thing.

I am looking for guidance for liberation from my'self'.

What is the most unacceptable thing? What is it doing?
How many selfs are there?

Waiting for your answer,
Lubo

[Gerd]

Hi Lubo,

thank you very much for accepting my request and your willingness to guide me through this process.

What is the most unacceptable thing? What is it doing?
How many selfs are there?

If there is a Self I would say it is only OneSelf. This Self seems to be responsible for suffering. I often experience life not fulfilling and therefore am looking for “more” in life.

Thank You for Your response,
Gerd

[Lubo]

Hi Gerd,
Thanks for the replay.

Suffering - I understand very well what you mean by that.
Let's explore this suffering with love and kindness, can we?
Notice:
Who or what made this suffering?
Who suffers?
Is there someone behind the suffering?
What is noticed when examined?


I will be happy if you answer each question separately.
Love
lubo

[Gerd]

Hi Lubo,

Who or what made this suffering?

I wouldn’t say there is a who or what in particular that makes this suffering. It is more like the suffering comes out of live itself, there is something missing (some ‘not enough’). Not knowing what this actually is, what is missed.

Who suffers?

I would say “I am suffering”. Knowing that there is no I, there is still suffering.

Is there someone behind the suffering?

No, there is nobody behind the suffering.

What is noticed when examined?

If there is no ‘I’, so who or what or where is suffering then?

Thank You
Gerd

[Lubo]

Hi Gerd,

Thanks for the reply.
Let's look here

...It is more like the suffering comes out of live itself, there is something missing (some ‘not enough’). Not knowing what this actually is, what is missed.

I understand that suffering is being experienced at the moment and it is absolutely real, but

there is something missing

- who carries the information that something is missing? Notice, could it be any of the 5 senses?

Who suffers?

I would say “I am suffering”. Knowing that there is no I, there is still suffering.

Suffering is the most common reason to come to LU, but the belief that suffering will stop when it is seen that there is no separate self is a wonderful story.
is there such a belief?

Is there someone behind the suffering?

No, there is nobody behind the suffering.

Wonderful.

What is noticed when examined?

If there is no ‘I’, so who or what or where is suffering then?

Where is this one:
Who ask this questions?
Who cares that there is suffering?
Who don't want to have suffering?
Can it be found in reality?
There is no one behind the suffering, but is there anyone behind these questions?

Explore all day every suffering, every fear, notice that there is no one for whom they are dangerous?
Does the one who doesn't want them here exist?

love
lubo

[Gerd]

Hi Lubo,

I understand that suffering is being experienced at the moment and it is absolutely real, but
who carries the information that something is missing? Notice, could it be any of the 5 senses?

‘Something is missing’ is a thought and a sensation coming with it. None of the 5 senses is involved.

Suffering is the most common reason to come to LU, but the belief that suffering will stop when it is seen that there is no separate self is a wonderful story.
is there such a belief?

Yes, there is a belief/wish that suffering will stop when it is seen that there is no separate self.

Where is this one:

There is nobody.

Who ask this questions?

Nobody asks this questions…. there is just asking.

Who cares that there is suffering?

Nobody cares that there is suffering.

Who don't want to have suffering?

Nobody doesn’t want to have suffering. So, there is only not wanting suffering.

Can it be found in reality?

Suffering cannot be found in reality.

There is no one behind the suffering, but is there anyone behind these questions?

Nobody is behind these questions.

Does the one who doesn't want them here exist?

No, this one doesn’t exist. There is only not wanting.

Thank You,
Gerd

[Lubo]

Hi Gerd,
Nice observation.
What is to find that there is nobody who suffers?

Yes, there is a belief/wish that suffering will stop when it is seen that there is no separate self.

Suffering is made of feelings + thought story. Can you see this?
Give me some examples from your own experience how suffering arise? And what is made of, and what part is dangerous and for whom?
Start hunting for suffering and fear today and have fun :) OK?

Nobody doesn’t want to have suffering. So, there is only not wanting suffering.

How this - not wanting suffering - is coming here, 5 senses or ?
Can you see that this points to a me? And the me must be protect?
How this thought is coming?
Who produces it and how?
Is there a me behind these thoughts?

Best,
lubo

[Gerd]

Hi Lubo,

thank you for your answer.

What is to find that there is nobody who suffers?

I don’t know if I understand the question correctly. If there is no ‘I’ there is nobody who suffers. There is only suffering.

Suffering is made of feelings + thought story. Can you see this?

Yes, I can see this.

Give me some examples from your own experience how suffering arise? And what is made of, and what part is dangerous and for whom?
Start hunting for suffering and fear today and have fun :) OK?

1.) I wanted to buy a new bike on tuesday. When I reached the shop the bike, I wanted to buy, was sold already. So there was disappointment and suffering. 2.) I was in a supermarket today. It was very busy so I had to wait a long time at the cashier for paying. So there was suffering. I would say suffering occurs when expectations (which are thoughts) are not fulfilled. Suffering is an unpleasant feeling.

How this - not wanting suffering - is coming here, 5 senses or ?

Suffering is an unpleasant feeling, so it is not wanted. It is a feeling so I don’t think it is one of the 5 senses.

Can you see that this points to a me? And the me must be protect?

I don’t know. Maybe wanting or not wanting points to a me.

How this thought is coming?
Who produces it and how?
Is there a me behind these thoughts?

I don’t understand what thoughts you are talking here about.

Thank You
Gerd

[Lubo]

Hi Gerd,
Good work.

Look here

What is to find that there is nobody who suffers?

I don’t know if I understand the question correctly. If there is no ‘I’ there is nobody who suffers. There is only suffering.

Yes, is the suffering yours?
What is to find that there is no owner and no creator of suffering?

Suffering is made of feelings + thought story. Can you see this?

Yes, I can see this.

So, suffering is a word like capuchino. The word capuchino point to some things that are real - coffee and milk.
Can you use word capuchino for coffee without milk? or milk without a coffee?

Suffering point to another two things that exist in reality thoughts + feeling(s).
Check from your own experience:
Is there a suffering without thoughts, only feelings ?
What about suffering without feelings, only thoughts?
Bite your finger and notice the experience - what word explain it more accurate - feeling of pain or suffering?

I wanted to buy a new bike on tuesday. When I reached the shop the bike, I wanted to buy, was sold already. So there was disappointment and suffering.

lets check here which one is coffee and which one is milk.
So there was disappointment - experience of thoughts
and suffering - feeling +thoughts.
Here the most important point is: In reality, the real things are feeling - OK? and thought, OK? but without content, without story
So the suffering is only because of the content of thoughts/the story.
The story that there is a me for whom all this happens.
Now the new game is to find how many stories for a me, arise on a day ?
For example - the alarm clock is ringing - the story is coming that there is a me who must go to work., etc
and notice what is real at this moment 5 sense +thoughts or content of thoughts/story/me ?

The invitation is to notice this and do not judge the thoughts or feelings or don't try to stop them, OK?

love
lubo

[Gerd]

Hi Lubo,

Yes, is the suffering yours?
What is to find that there is no owner and no creator of suffering?

No, the suffering is not mine. Maybe it is easier if one doesn’t take it personal. But suffering still is.

Can you use word capuchino for coffee without milk? or milk without a coffee?

No, for capuchino milk and coffee have to go together.

Is there a suffering without thoughts, only feelings ?
What about suffering without feelings, only thoughts?

For suffering thoughts and feelings have to go together.

Bite your finger and notice the experience - what word explain it more accurate - feeling of pain or suffering?

? Feeling of pain is a more accurate word here.

Now the new game is to find how many stories for a me, arise on a day ? notice what is real at this moment 5 sense +thoughts or content of thoughts/story/me ? The invitation is to notice this and do not judge the thoughts or feelings or don't try to stop them, OK?

Ok. I understand. It is about noticing the difference between what really is (5 senses and thought) and the content of thought (which is fiction).

Thank You
Gerd

[Lubo]

Hi Gerd,
Nice!

What is to find that there is no owner and no creator of suffering?

No, the suffering is not mine. Maybe it is easier if one doesn’t take it personal. But suffering still is.

Yes, exactly! "Doesn’t take it personal" - it is mean to see that there is a story about me, for whom all this shit :) happened, but notice that me is only in the story, in reality all there is is what is here including feelings and thoughts but there is no me .
Is it clear?
is it clear that this story about poor me for whom this is happening exist only in the story and the suffering is because me in the story is taken for real? And suffering is only feelings and thoughts?

Now the new game is to find how many stories for a me, arise on a day ? notice what is real at this moment 5 sense +thoughts or content of thoughts/story/me ? The invitation is to notice this and do not judge the thoughts or feelings or don't try to stop them, OK?

Ok. I understand. It is about noticing the difference between what really is (5 senses and thought) and the content of thought (which is fiction).

Mmm, notice that the story is always about this me, and realise that me is only in the story and do not exist in reality.
Give me some examples from everyday life?

love
lubo

[Gerd]

Hi Lubo,

but notice that me is only in the story, in reality all there is is what is here including feelings and thoughts but there is no me .

So this means that even knowing that there is no me there are feelings and thoughts and in the consequence suffering?

is it clear that this story about poor me for whom this is happening exist only in the story and the suffering is because me in the story is taken for real?

I understand that the poor me exist only in the story and suffering is because me is taken for real. But even knowing that there is no me doesn’t make the story/thoughts vanish.

and realise that me is only in the story and do not exist in reality.
Give me some examples from everyday life?

1.) It was nice and warm during the last days but today it was very cold. So the sensation was ‘cold’ and the content of thought was ‘I don’t like cold. Why is life doing this to me’. 2.) In the house I am living someone is slamming the doors. Content of thought: He is disturbing me, he should be more responsible and so on.

Thank You
Gerd

[Lubo]

Hi Gerd,
Suffering is here when the me is taken for real.
There is no me even now.
Nothing will change when this is seen and why should it changed?
When you realised that Santa Claus doesn't exist, did anything in reality change?

but notice that me is only in the story, in reality all there is is what is here including feelings and thoughts but there is no me.

So this means that even knowing that there is no me there are feelings and thoughts and in the consequence suffering?

So, can you see the invitation here is to NOTICE, and your answer is "So this means" - thinking.
Can you try to notice and write what is coming?

is it clear that this story about poor me for whom this is happening exist only in the story and the suffering is because me in the story is taken for real?

I understand that the poor me exist only in the story and suffering is because me is taken for real. But even knowing that there is no me doesn’t make the story/thoughts vanish.

Here is the same. The answer is from thinking - "I understand that..." understanding creates a new story, just look at what the words point to.

It was nice and warm during the last days but today it was very cold. So the sensation was ‘cold’ and the content of thought was ‘I don’t like cold. Why is life doing this to me

Excellent. Is there you who create this story? Just notice that even now there is a story about me reading, but this is a thought? Is the reading tells that there is an you who is reading?
Can the story knows for whom it is coming?

Watch this video and write what is coming:
https://youtu.be/FsTWkzdqqJg

[Gerd]

Hi Lubo,

So, can you see the invitation here is to NOTICE, and your answer is "So this means" - thinking.
Can you try to notice and write what is coming?

Yes, I can notice that me is only in thought/story. There is still suffering.

Here is the same. The answer is from thinking - "I understand that..." understanding creates a new story, just look at what the words point to.

I understand your pointing. But even knowing that it is a story, there is still suffering.

Is there you who create this story?

No, the story/thought just happened.

Just notice that even now there is a story about me reading, but this is a thought? Is the reading tells that there is an you who is reading?

Reading is just happening. There is no ‘I’ doing reading.

Can the story knows for whom it is coming?

Sorry, but I don’t understand the question.

Watch this video and write what is coming:

Thank you for the video! Very helpful and relaxing. I was also thinking, when I realize that there is no ‘I’ the ‘I’ will dissolve. And as ‘I’ doesn’t dissolve I thought my realization is wrong or not enough….

Thank You
Gerd