The Gate

Habib is a seeker who first contacted us some months ago, but had problems as his English is not very strong. He speaks Urdu so I agreed to guide him in that language. He also does not feel comfortable using the forum so I will be copy/pasting my conversation with him from FB messenger.

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
mai say murad meri Ana meray damag me mojood shochen or mera apny bary me ar masbat or manfi soch jisay me khud taswor karta hon leken mera dil kehta hay k ye sab ghalat sochen hain jo mery mohashry ny mujy feed ki hay meri asl kuch or hay mera asal wo shawoor hay jo damagh say mawara kio cheez hay jis ko shawoor kehty hain

mein Aqli tor pr jaanta hon k yahan koi mai nai hay leken kasy es ka "idrak"nai hay or ager mai nai hay to kea hay es ki justojo hay ....... jo hay me wahi ho "who am i ?"es ki talash hay

What are you looking for at LU?
"Mai" say azadi apni soch say azadi asel me insan jis mohashry me peda hota hay or jahan parwan charta hay wahan usy jo sekaya jata hay wo us per man o han hamal karta hay or usi ko zindagi samjatha hay lekn zindagi us say barh ker koi cheez hay jesy aqel say samjhna mushkel hay or mujy us shaoor ki justajoo hay.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Meri sirf ek hi expectation hay k me chezon ko sahe zawehay say dekhon q k mujy lagta hay k me har shakhs ar waqea or chez ko apny soch k nazar say dekhta hon .mujy pata hay k me nai hon mager kasy ? ye nai pata .

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
me saloon say apni talash me hon mager nakam hon bauat say dost mely koi kai ka urope say koi egypt say baut aosal afzai meli bauat delasa mela mgr nai mela to me khud say na mela.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
i am ready to remove my all beliefs of every kind how they are related for religion or any other kind ..i am 100 % ready

Bas aap bhi koshish karain ke roz kumazkum one question ka jawab den, takeh daily humari conversation ho. Jab tak guiding ho rahi hai, utni dair apni expectations ko side par rakh den aur LU ke ilawa doosri books aur videos bhi na parrhain ya dekhain.

Yeh bataye keh aap ke khayaal me "mai" se kya murad he? Araam se soch kar batayain ke kya kya cheezain hain jinn se "mai" banni hui hai. Woh likhain jo jo aap ke mind me hai "mai" ke baray mai.
Jo kuch parrha he ya sunna hai, woh nahin. Apnay aap se batayain. Not just negative, but sab kuch jiss ko aap "mai" sochtay hain.

"Mai" say murad meri khoashien meri nafratein meri mohabbatein or nafratein mera mazi mera mustaqbil .....mujh say wabista reshty or un say jory khadshat......mera status meri khayalat jin say mujy din raat azeat melti hay ........wo jo Mirza Ghalib nay kaha tha ...yaad e mazi azab hay ya Rab ......koi cheen lay mujh say aafza mera ..

In my last post, the portion in quotes is me, the rest is Habib. However, from now, I will put Habib's answers in quotes.

Ek minute ke liye ek experiment karain. Aap ye karain ke samajhain ke aap ko "amnesia" ho gaya he. Aap apna maazi and mustaqbil, apni sochain aur apni umeedain, apne rishtay aur apni identity, even apna naam and ye keh aap kaun hain (age, nationality, gender), sab kuch. Aap sochain ke aap sab bhool gaye hain. Aankhain band karain and sab bhool jayain. Aur phir aankhain kholain aur DEKHAIN. Sochain nahin, apne experience se dekhain. Kya feel kartain hain, thoughts aur sochon se pehle? Please apna experience likhain.
Of course, thoughts shoro ho jayain gi, unn ko attention na den, sirf apne experience ko dekkhain ke kiya feel hua.

me inshallah aap ki sab instruction ko follow karon ga.
Kal say aaj tak ek sy zeyada dafha mein ny ye experiment kea hay or koshis ki hay k apny feeling un me aai chenging ko note karskkon .
Jab aankhen band ki ye feel kea k mujy kuch yaad nai to phely mujhy thora sa dar laga ke mery bachon ka kea hoga leken pir aaesta aaesta sab kuch bhooltha gaya jab aakhen khol ker DEKHNY ki khoshish ki to mujy ander say khali pan ka ahesas howa saamny chezen dekh rahi thi mager identification DHEMA tha or kafi sokoon feel kea or kal say yai feel karny ki khoshis kr raha hon k mujy kuch bi yaad nai .....

Habib, very good. Ab iss ko baar baar karnay ki zaroorat nahin hai. Yeh experiment siraf humay dikhanay ke liye hai, keh humari identification kaisay soch say hai. Jab hum kuch soch nahin rahe hote, to humari identification bhi khatum ho jaati hai.
Hum normal life mai sub kuch bhool to nahin sakte. Hum nai kaam bhi karna hai, apni families ko bhi dekhna hai, iss dunya mai life guzarni hai. Yeh possible to nahin hai keh hum sub kuch bhool ke beth jayain. Hum ko siruf yeh dekhna hai keh humri identity kaisay soch sai hai.
Yeh exercise humay yeh thori dair keh liye dikhati hai. Iss experience mai hum reh nahin saktai kyunke yeh possible nahin hai.
Humari conditioning, humari religious belief normallyyehi hai keh humare andar ek power ya soul ya ruh hai jo humay control kar rahi hai. Magar iss waqat, abhi apnay experience mai dekhain. Kya woh apnay andar wala Habib aap ko milta hai? Aisay dhoonday jaisay aap kissi ghummi hui cheez ko dhoondtay hain. Soch sai nahin, experience aur dekhnai sai, apnay andar dekhain. Uss ka koi evidence milta hai? Agar hai, to kahan feel hota hai, aur kaisa?

Salam Madam,
mai kal say apny ander k Habib ko dhondny ki koshish kar raha hon .wo kon hay jo mery body ko operate ker araha hay mujy dekhai to nai dea han me ny apny hathelio or haton me Vibration feel kea or zeyada tawajjo say feel karni ki koshish ki to mujy apny shoulder me bhi vibration feel how lekn ye vibration baut slow hay or thoughts bar bar distrub karty hain concentration nai ho pata .....How i will fine my self ?

Habib, agar ek self, yani andar wala habib, hai hi nahin to kaise millay ga? Pareshan na ho, aap bilkul theek kar rahe ho.
Yeh jo vibration hai, isse hum ek "feeling ya sense of aliveness" keh saktay hain? Kyunke ek actual self to nahin feel hua?
Thoughts ki fiqar na karo, inn ka to kaam hai disturb karna

😂Han belkul toughts ka kaam hi tang karna hay ..phely mujy bauat azeat hoti ti lekn ab jesy me ny somjotha ker lea hay.(samjhota ghamon say karlo )
Aap sahi kehti hain there is no doer ,there is no Manager every thing is happening by itself then it is enough to feel the body mera matlab hay me yahi aaker phas jata hon k ab kea karna hay aagy kea kerna kasy apny aap tak paonchna hay.......

Hmm. Ek taraf aap keh rahe ho ke, han, self nahin milta, manager nahin milta. Saath aap keh rahe ho keh me apne aap tak kaise pohanchon. Yeh kaun sa "apna aap" hai. Yeh to samjhao.

Ye to mein ny parha hay k yaha koi Manager nai hota koi doer nai han ....apny aap tak paonchny yahi k me kon hon who am i ?

It's okay. Habib aap ne jo jo parha hai, usse bhool jao. Hum ne SIRAF apne experience se dekhna hai. Warna to bas ek aur belief hi ho jaye ga.

yes an other belief ture. True.

Aap ka aaj ka homework yeh hai. Keh din mai thori thori dair baad, different activities kartay huay, aap ne siraf check karna hai keh aap ko koi andar wala mai ya "self" experience mai milta hai? Ziyada dair har dafa nahin zaroori. Siraf check karain. Khatay huay, parhtay huay, chaltay huay, waghaira. Soch se nahin, dekhmay se.
Kuch dair ke liye expectations aur spiritual fiqar side pe rakh den.

OK i will do this experience today and will inform you about my progress INshallah Thanks for sharing your precious time with me

Habib:

Me pechly 2 deno say yai dekhni ki koshish ker raha tha kea waqi mery under koi self ya mai nai hay ya koi hay jo mujy undr sey operate kar raha hay bauat ghor say dekhny k baad me es natejy pr paoncha hon k mery under koi mai ya Self NAI hay .
Zahin me khodbakhod ek khayal peda hota hay or jism razmarra ka kaam saranjaam dena shoro karta hay ,khana peena ,chalna dekhna sary kaam khod ba khod hoty hain..
Han zahen me peda hony waly khayalat hamari mamoolat ko mutasir karny ki koshish karty hain .khayalat jo zahen mei peda hoty hain hmin azeat dety hain or per kai gheraion may ghum hojaty hain . albaata ye baat to tae hay k zindagi apny dagar pr chalti hay or hamara mind KHASH, AGER ,ASEY OR WESY me uljha rehta hay ...🤔🤔

Acha to aap ko dekhnay se "mai" nahin mila? Aap ne, agar aap experience se baat kar rahe ho, dekha keh humari sochain hi hain jo iss belief ko zinda rakhti hain? Him kuch bhi kartain hain, woh automatically ho raha hota hai magar humari soch kehti hai keh "main ne yeh kiya hai."

Past to ghzer choka or future abhi aaya nai ye sirf hamara mind hay jo past or future ko zinda rakhta hay warna haqeqat mein ye apna wajood nai rakhty ya zinda nai hay lekn ham jb apna damagh bannty hain ya sochty hain to ye zinda hoty hay or hamen mehsoos bhi hoty hain ....

Ab ek chotta sa experiment thoughts vs direct experience ke liye. Agar me aap ko poochon ke aap ne kis colour ki shirt pehni hui hai. Do tariqay hain. Ya aap iss ke baaray me sochain, mai ne subah kaunsi shirt pehni thi aur yaad kar ke batayain. Ya phir aap apni shirt ko dekhain aur batayain. Dono mai faraq hai ya nahin? .....

...Issi tarah aap ko pata hai keh aap ki office table peh koi cheez parrhi hai (example phone ya kuch bhi), Uss ko dehay baghair aap uss ke baray mai soch sakhtay hain. Uss ka colour, uss ka shape, waghaira. Phir aap uss cheez ko asal mai dekain. Ek siraf soch hai, aur ek asal hai, yani direct actual experience. Jo bhi thoughts hain, woh asal nahin hoti.

Humara mind jo hai, uss ka kaam hai har waqt commentary karna. Woh har waqt bol raha hota hai. Yeh acha hai, yeh bura hai, aisa hota to acha hota, yeh mai ne kyun kiya, iss banday ne yeh kyun kaha, waghaira waghaira waghaira... Aap siraf notice karain, jab bhi kar saktay hain, apni thoughts ko. Mostly to hum inn mai "pakray" jatay hain, koi baat nahin. Jab aap ko yaad aye, to notice karain keh humara mind kaisa har cheez ko label aur judge karta hai. Kal tak dekhain, phir likh kar batayain kaisa raha.

Salam Madam.
Ji belkul aesa hi hay hamary mind mei har waqt jo commentary balky kabhi to filmen chalti hay wo baut azeat nak hoti hain hamein takha deti hain q k hamari energy ka zeyada esi me consume hota hay ......me nay kal koshish ki hay en pr concentrate karon ...I noted that ye hamari control say baher hay khod hi aati hay or pir ghaib hoti hay mager continue chalti rehti hain
ji Madam ye bhi sach hay chezen ko dekhny k 2 tariqy hain ek to ham soch say dekhty hain or ek direct dekhty hain baut bareek or wazeh farq hay since yesterday i am trying to look directly rather then from thoughts .....han direct dekhna sahi or soch say dekhna mushkil hay mager ham aadi hochky hain ..
Or jo bhi cheez dekhty hain damagh label lagana shoro karta hay ye shyad qudrati hay .

Humaray mind ka kaam hi yehi hai. Iss ko fight nahin karna, na sochon ko roknay ki koshish karna. Iss waqt siraf observation ya notice karna kaafi hai.
Aap ne dekha keh kaisay thoughts aati hain aur jaati hain, aur hum unn ke manager ya controller nahin hain. Na hi unn ka hum par koi power hai. Siraf itna power hai jitna hum den ya believe karain. Aur jab hum samajh jatay hain keh humari thoughts real nahin hain, aur inn ki apni power koi nahin hai, to aahista aahista woh energy bhi khatam ho jati hai aur hum automatically apni thoughts mai nahin olajh jatay.
Basically Kya ho raha hai? Perceptions hain, yaani sights, sounds, smells, taste, waghaira. Sensations hain, yaani body ki feelings, jaisay bhook, dard, waghaira. Humara mind sab kuch label karta hai. Aaj aap iss labelling ke through dekhain, jab jab kar sakain. Yaani aap t.v. dekh rahay hain to dekhain keh "seeing is happening". Try keh "i" ko bhi iss se nikaal den. Aap kuch sunn rahay hain, notice that hearing is happening. Bas notice kar ke chor den, iss me phasay na rahain. Agar koi pain ho, to thori dair ke liye siraf body sensation par focus karain, aur dekhain keh mind kaisay forun label karta hai keh dard ho rahi hai. Aaj yeh kar keh likhye ga. Yeh bhi notice karain keh mind saath hi "I am ...." add kar deta hai. Kaisay yeh bhi ek soch hai

Salam Madam,
Apny mind or body ki observation k doran mei ny koshish ki k en ka aapsi me ghat jor or reshta talash karon ..........en ka bara automatic system hay jab aankh dekhti hay to mind foran label lagana shoro karta hay es tra jab sunna ho ke mehsoos karna ya bhook ho k dard jab bhi amara sharo us trf jata hay to mind apna kaam shoro karta hay ......mind me do qesam ki thoughts aati hain ek to jo kuch ho raha hota hay us ki lebeling karna leken dosri taraf ek alaram ka kaam bhi karta hay for example sobha kaam per bhi jaana hay ,,,peyas lagi hay pani pi lo or bauat kuch ..........yahan ek sawal peda hota ager me apna damagh nai hon or apna jism bhi nai hon to aakhir kon hon who am I ? Jis ki mujy talash hay...

Excellent looking.
Humara mind automatically chall raha hai. Thoughts aati hain aur jati hain. Agar hum mind hotay to hum bhi apni thoughts ke saath change hotay 🙂 Magar aap ne mind ko dekha he. Ab zara sa body experiment bhi kar len.
Aap agar office ki desk par baithay hain, ya ghar par, aankhain band kar ke dekhain keh kya aap apni body ki outline feel kar saktay hain? Keh kahan khatam hoti hai aur kahan "outside" shoro hota hai? Kya and kahan sensations feel ho rahe hain?
Doosra question yeh hai keh agar yeh process ho jata hai to aap Kya soch rahe hain, Kya ho ga? Aap kya realize kar rahe ho keh yeh koi jaado ki goli nahin hai jiss se sari problems khatam ho jayain gi ya hamesha aap ek khushi ki haalat me raho ge. Yeh process siraf humain unreal ko hata kar reality dekhata hai. Bas.
Last question aaj ka. Woh kaun hai jo talaash kar raha hai?

Madam I have once confusion,ye body ki outline or outside keya hay ?.ye mujy aasan alfaaz me bataen please...

No problem Body ki outline yaani woh jaga jahan humari body khatam hoti hai aur bahir ki space ya koi aur cheez shoro hoti hai. Outside woh jo humari body nahin hai

Thanks a lot Madam
Ji Madam mein ny bachpan me jab lafz Roahnat sona tha tab shayed mery mind me ye ek Jadoo ki goli this leken jesy jesy mein aagy barhta gaya mujh pr haqeeqat khulti gai or Ajj sirf ek expectation rehgai hay k apny aap ko pehchan sakoon k men kon hon bass .

If you keep searching for an experience, agar aap uss experience ki hi talaash me raho gai to aap reality ki search se hat jao gai. Agar aap sachai ko dhoodh rahe ho to apna focus ussi par rakhna ho ga.

Mujy us sachai ki talaash hay ager wo mela to saari talash khatam ..