Hi Brenda,
Joining this forum, there was a lot of frustration not being able to grasp something that is said to be so simple. This frustration has turned to confusion. Confusion of what to do with this "I". Hearing it does not exist, but yet it seems to still be a weight drug along the path. This is where the resistance lies currently.
You don’t have to figure this out intellectually for yourself. I will guide you through the process by asking lots of questions where to look. So you don’t have to worry about the how. That’s my job. Your job is to LOOK to the direction I will be pointing you.
It might not be easy, especially at the beginning, but if you are persistent, then sooner or later you will be able to see through the illusion.
But we haven’t even started the investigation. Currently we are just examining your beliefs and expectations to see them only as beliefs and not actual facts about awakening. So I am just pointing out the misperceptions and beliefs you hold about this topic. Since these beliefs and expectations can prevent you seeing what is really happening.
But you don’t have to do anything with any of these expectations, it’s enough if you keep eye on them, and to know that these are just beliefs and not facts about awakening.
V: There is no you which life could express itself through.
B; I want to believe this but I am confused how to look at it. It just is...
You don’t have to believe in anything. You are already have too much beliefs :) We are not making new beliefs, rather we are going to see through the current beliefs, and as the result those will fall way by themselves.
Life is happening around me but I am not part of it.
There is NO YOU that could be part of life. There is only life. But there is no you/self in it.
You might not understand this now. But that’s all right. You will see this for yourself later.
The resistance here is the uncertainty of how to let go of the "I". If it never existed, then there is no need to let it go. So how does one view this?
The ‘I’ cannot be let go.
It only can be RECOGNIZED that there has never been an ‘I’ there.
This is our whole investigation will be about.
If we are not our emotions as emotions are not permanent,
First, you have to understand intellectually, that what you believe yourself to be doesn’t exist. It’s just a fantasy. Just an illusion.
So since the self is just an illusion, it’s actually not there, therefore it cannot be said that “we are not our emotions”, since there is no self that can be or have emotions.
Emotions are, but it’s not happening to anything.
Emotions are not owned to anything.
Emotions are, but the self isn’t.
As the emotion arises, and we accept it, the confusion comes from if there is nobody observing it, then it must not be real, and there is no "I", the real question is -isn't accepting it a "Doing"?
There is no you that could accept or not an emotion.
There is a belief here that emotions are happening to you or to a self.
So there is a belief that there is ME + emotions.
But no. There is no ME + emotions. There are emotions without a ME.
There are only emotions. But no ME.
There are no expectations of this new view of life, but the question is - once the attachment to the emotion is gone, would there still be suffering? Suffering is caused by filters or beliefs which creates the illusion, so if this illusion did not exist, would suffering still exist?
Just because the self is seen through the ‘attachment to emotions won’t be gone’. Since the personality won’t change.
Suffering happens when being lost in thoughts happens. It means that the thoughts in that moment are not seen only as arising thoughts (only as ‘containers’ coming and going), but rather their ‘content’, what they are about is taken as reality. And of course, since each thought is about the self, the self is taken as something real. And this, let’s call ‘delusion’ still can happen even after seeing the illusion of the self. But when it’s investigated, it can be seen for what it is. But there is no guaranty that in the next moment the story of a self won’t reassert itself. It’s a habit of the mind. It’s a conditioned pattern of thinking. It’s the result of a life-long conditioning. But upon each looking it gets a little bit weaker and weaker.
Also, personality problems, traumas, emotional pains don’t dissolve just because of seeing no self. So all the conditioned reactions that stem from them still can arise. However, if someone decides to work on these, it’s usually much easier after seeing no-self.
Having said this, does this mean in conversation, the "I" needs to be omitted from all conversation?
Please don’t stop using the word ‘I’ when it feels like there is an I. If you stop using this word, you would give me a false impression that you have seen that there is no self, while actually you just avoided using the word ‘I’, but you still believe that there is a self there.
There is resistance here.
This seems to make sense intellectually, but not physically. If there is no observing of life, then there is no existence, and with no existence, what can be real?
If life is just happening, and "I" am not part of it, then I am not a doer, but just being. What does that really mean?
You are thinking too much :) You don’t have figure out this intellectually.
With thinking you cannot get anywhere. We will examine the experience directly, without thought interpretation.
More resistance here, as these words are commonly used to describe the self. What is a better way to understand the being that we are? Not sure how to see this?
Dear Brenda, you are not seeing what I am talking about, since your belief in the existence of the self is very strong.
You are believing that there is a self there.
And you are expecting that you will be able to figure out that what you are.
But there is NO SELF in any shape or form.
You won’t be able to figure out what you are, because there is NO YOU that could be anything.
The you, the self, the I, is just an illusion.
The only thing that will happen, is that it will be DISCOVERED that there is NO SELF at all.
V: To an imagined something that is the subject, that is the knowing or being aware or noticing or watching or seeing or feeling (etc) the objects (thoughts, sensations, images, etc).
B: Please clarify. This is unclear.
We humans believe that there is a self somewhere inside the body, or somehow connected to the body, and we call this self as ‘me’.
Everything else outside this body is not-me.
So I am the subject that is seeing, looking outside of this body and seeing the world, which is not-me, out there.
So there is a me (subject) and the not-me (object).
And I (subject) is aware of what is happening out there (object).
But there is no I inside the body, being aware what is happening outside in the world.
The split of me and not-me are not real, it’s just imagined.
Since there is no me inside the body, therefore there cannot be no-me outside the body.
The body is there, the world is there, the chair the body is sitting on is there, but there is no me, no self inside the body having the experience of sitting on the chair.
Sitting on the chair happens, but it doesn’t happen to me. It doesn’t happen to a self.
But currently this is just a description for you.
I don’t expect you to see this experientially for now.
I just described to you how it is.
When we start the investigation, we will look at this closely. So don’t worry.
This is perfect. Start from the beginning to grasp a new enlightened view. My current beliefs don't have a home with this new way of seeing life.
Does this include not reading other forums on this website?
Yes, for two reasons. First, if you read others’ post, you might take on more beliefs about how this should feel like or be like, and that just would create more confusion. But even worse, you might start to compare your progress with others with the conclusion that you are not good enough or that you are not doing it right. Secondly, if you spend your time reading others’ posts, you won’t have enough time to investigate those questions and exercises I will give you. The more time and energy you put into looking, the quicker and easier you can see through the self.
Vivien