The Gate

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
Focused Guiding - I used to guide people on horseback riding excursions. I led the people through a network of trails until we got to their destination. I didn’t tell them what to look at or how to feel about what they saw. I led the way and the guests saw what they saw. I think what you’re offering might be along the same lines. I could wrong.

What are you looking for at LU?
I had an experience years ago that showed that separation is an illusion. The experience was brief but powerful. I had no-one to ask about it and didn’t really even know what to ask. I want a breakthrough in understanding, as well as, an experience of what non-duality is. It seems that a shift in paradigm is required and if so, that is what I want. I want to see, think, and experience life through the lense of non-duality.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I assume that you will investigate my current thinking and help me find the flaws or what’s missing. I assume there will be questions, corrections, and analogies to help me see what I am unable to see because I am me.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have never been to a spiritual retreat, lecture, etc. I don’t meditate, do yoga, eat or don’t eat certain foods. I was raised a Catholic but could never believe in it or any other religion. I do think that there is Source but I do not see it as divine, holy, etc. I guess the closest thing to relate it to is energy, quantum soup or the unified field. I don’t think Source is any thing in particular. I think it is no thing in particular which means infinite possibilities... it can manifest as anything. I think any thing, any manifestation is transitory. It arises, exists for awhile, then merges back into Oneness.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

Hi Kaliphoenix.
Welcome to Liberation Unleashed.
Thank you for patience, waiting for a guide.
We can have a chat and see where that takes you.

You say you have never been to a retreat or been into anything spiritual. That’s fine. We are looking at what is and that has nothing to do with any knowledge or practice.

Non-duality is not a lens, it’s an absence of a mind created lens that shows up as ‘me, the character’
So essentially we all live the non duality, except, that thoughts say otherwise. There is nothing new to find out, only unlearn that which you think you know.

For starters, tell me, what are you looking for? And what do you expect that life should be like once you find that.

Sending love.

Good Morning Ilona:

Lovely to hear from you! I hope all is well with you and yours.

What am I looking for?

Truth and Peace. Over the years I have encountered many theories about who or what human being is. I’ve become uncertain about what and who to believe. When I watch or listen to various teachers, gurus, and the like, I sense that some of them are talking “about” enlightenment vs. speaking “from” a space of enlightenment. Also, I don’t want to “believe” anything, I want to know, with no room for doubt, what is true.

I had an experience years ago that let me know that how I think life is, primarily the sense of being separate, is not true. Unfortunately, I didn’t have anyone to discuss it with. The people with whom I shared it thought it was “cool”, but they didn’t really get what I was trying to communicate and my words were inadequate.

I finally recognised that I had foolishly been chasing that experience and searching for verifiable proof of what it was and a technique with which to re-experience it.

What do you expect that life should be like once you find that?

I think a sense of calm and what Buddhists call equanimity would come from knowing the truth about who or what I am. I know the day-to-day life won’t change but perhaps I can engage it differently, from that truth.

Thank you for your willingness to be my guide.

Thank you for reply. Let’s get all this untangled. :) once and for all

Truth and Peace. Over the years I have encountered many theories about who or what human being is

Great. Tell me, what is in the way of peace, here now?

Yes, there are many theories about a human and identity. But all identity is assumed. What we really want to know is what is here without labels. This sense of being, aliveness. Presence. You don’t need to name it human, I or (your name). This aliveness IS. All it takes is a shift of focus, noticing that. Being is. Undeniably present. Call it being aware, or whatever you like. This is what we are looking AT.
Is there anything you need to do in order to be?

Sending love.

What is in the way of peace, here, now?

Ah yes, labels. I started drafting a response and realized that it was just another story. I looked at it and thought that if I subtracted the nouns, there was nothing left of any consequence…basically just the page.

If I apply that to life, then in this moment, labels, beliefs, stories, and things may transitorily appear but they don’t mean anything. They come and then they go, like waves on the ocean or clouds in the sky.

When I remember this, I am at peace.

What we really want to know is what is here without labels?

Hmmm. Well, without labels, what is here cannot be described. What is here is whatever is existing and whatever is occurring. Without labels, there’s no interpretation and, by extension, no meaning.

Is there anything you need to do in order to be?

No. Beingness just happens.

Darn it! I know this! ...then something shifts and on the other side of the shift is not knowing it.

By the way, the label that was applied to me at birth is Joy. Go figure:)

Thank you,

Joy

Hi Joy!

Lovely answer. Yes, without labels there is just a blank page :)
And yet, aliveness, sense of being, is still here. The presence, being aware, knowing that this is, existing IS here with and without labels.
Can you focus on the sense of being and see if that needs a name. If you call aliveness Joy or carrot, does that make a difference?

And can you check, what is not allowed, what is being resisted? Words come and go, is there a problem with that?

Love.

Good Morning Ilona:

A quick but related aside before I respond to your questions…
About 15 minutes after I sent yesterday’s response, I thought that “truth” is that which is… whatever is existing; whatever is occurring… sans labels, interpretations, beliefs, and stories.

If you call aliveness Joy or carrot, does that make a difference?

Actually no. It exists whether it’s labeled or not.

What is not allowed, what is being resisted?

Based on my experiences, when a human is identifying AS and is invested in a thought or line of thinking, resistance/opposition arises.

Existence allows everything. Existence is everything. What’s existing right now is what’s existing right now. (…shrugs shoulders and experiences a flash of surprise & amusement at the simplicity of the statement!)

Words come and go, is there a problem with that?

No. Words emerge, exist, and then they’re gone. No, it’s not a problem and is actually true of everything.

Everything is transitory… constantly emerging then disappearing; evolving and devolving.

Wishing you a day filled with lots of smiles and smiling,

Joy

“truth” is that which is… whatever is existing; whatever is occurring… sans labels, interpretations, beliefs, and stories.

Yes, that can be said. You are. What, how, when, who, why, so what- all answers to that are mind’s attempt to explain the unexplainable. Being requires no effort and no description.

Focus on the sense of being. Here now. The presence. This aware knowing that you are. See that for the answer.
I made this video, it may be helpful.
https://youtu.be/vVfvRetanr0

Write what you notice.

Much love

Good Afternoon Ilona,

What I noticed…

At the beginning, the video asks, “Is there I?” Is there I as a separate entity?”

I realize that just before mind come crashing in, there is a brief pause, a brief silence. The silence is so brief, I miss it.

I thought not being able to come up with an answer right was a problem.
I thought experiencing the sense of a me was a problem.

It never occurred to me that silence, the sense of a self/aliveness, awareness, alertness, attentiveness, was the answer!

(a deep sigh, the welling up of tears, and then crying)

It has been here all along… the silence, the awareness...

(a variety of feelings… tears of relief, a flash of sadness followed by more crying, a deep exhalation, then peace)

So, the silence, the awareness, being alert...just existing, just being, noticing and not noticing…

Stillness, just resting in the silence, the quietude

I don’t need to do anything, there’s nothing to understand (laughing)

Thank you, Ilona,

Time to sit in this for a while.

Yes!

Is sense of being something you do or something that is?
Is there a being or being (verb)

Is life happening to a being or as being?

Love

Good Morning Ilona!

Is sense of being something you do or something that is?

There is nothing that needs to be done.. nothing needs to be dismissed, gotten, or received. The sense of being just is.

Is there a being or being (verb)?

No, there isn’t a being as in a separate entity, there is only being.

Is life happening to a being or as being?

There is no-one for life to happen to. The me, the I, a self never existed. Life and beingness are one in the same. It just happens.

This is a typical Saturday morning and there are things that need to be done. The difference, however, is a sense of lightness. Not as if I’m skipping atop the clouds or anything. Just a lightness as I go about the ordinary and mundane tasks of a Saturday.

Have you ever seen footage of a flower blooming? It feels a little like that except the footage keeps repeating… little aha moments:)

Ilona, You are a gift and I am so grateful. Thank you.

Love,

Joy

Wonderful to read your words.
How is it going? What else are you noticing?
Is there any doubt? A BUT...?

Love.

How is it going?

Funny, I actually had to pause at the question because ‘how’ things were going hadn’t really occurred to me.
Things were simply happening. Things were being taking care of and only because you asked, am I now noticing that the character wasn’t needed to get things done. The character showed up once in a while but was in the background for most of the weekend.

What else are you noticing?

I was thinking about when separation/identification begins…

There you are fresh out of the womb and there’s paperwork, the hospital needs a name and Bam! your parents slap a label on you. The government might also choose to assign an identification number to you as well. At first, it’s a non-issue, but then the parental units :) begin insisting that you ARE, in my case, Joy and that they ARE Mom and Dad. (This is not their fault, this is how they too were raised.)

[Before this happens, scholars of child development say that infants experience themselves as everything… nothing is external.]

Mom takes your tiny little hand and presses the palm to her face and says Mommy, then takes your hand, places it on your face and says Joy. This little exercise is repeated over and over with the parents, siblings, the family pet, etc. until this initial programming is successful. In my experience, this is when the idea of a separate self and identification with thoughts is initiated.

Over the years, family, friends, the educational system and society at large relate to you as if you were not only your name and other identifiers, but also the beliefs & customs you inherit and acquire along the way.

I used to be quite interested in why humans did the things they do and yet back then, it never even crossed my mind to wonder whether the belief in a separate self was true. Why would it, when everyone else seemed to have the same belief?

The other thing I was pondering was about where I got the foolish notion that the sense of being was a problem. I can't even imagine why I thought it, but I did. Then, you said something about the sense of being in the "Recognition" video and Boom! that one comment blew everything open and there have been aha's blooming ever since and yet it's ordinary too.

Is there any doubt? A BUT...?

No, absolutely no doubts, no buts. All there is – is being, life happening.

Love,

Wonderful. Loved reading your reply. Yes, it’s all so ordinary and familiar. Nothing new, just obviousness plain and simple. It’s lovely to hear that watching the video has made the impact.

There are some traditional LU questions, could you answer them as you see it now.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Can you talk about decision, intention, free will, choice and control? What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Please answer in full, when ready.

Much love.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No, there isn’t and there never was. It was a thought that morphed into a belief which morphed into a story… a story of separation; the story of a me, an I.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

It could be said that separation begins with the assignment of a label, the receipt of a name. The name is just a thought but from the moment it is received, everyone begins referring to the child by that name. More identifiers are added over time: male, brown hair, green eyes, handsome, athletic, contractor, married, childless, successful, etc. Given the environment within which human beings exist, an identity is a useful tool.

As time goes by, the human begins relating to itself as its identifiers. So rather than having an identity, they become their identity, an individual, separate and distinct from everything else.

When you identify as your thoughts, your priority shifts from survival of the body to survival of the identity. If you are your mind, your sensations, imaginings, feelings, and thoughts, these must be protected from harm and fortified.
Identification with one’s thoughts however can be risky, for example, a person who was raised to believe that they are their ancestry, will race back into a burning home to rescue a painting, an heirloom necklace or the family silver. A bystander watching the fire who was raised to believe that a good person is courageous & heroic, will race into the house after the homeowner to save him or her. This attachment to identity leads some people to careers in law enforcement and the military.

When I began deconstructing the thought process and attempted to trace the thread of a thought back to its source, it led nowhere. Thoughts are empty things, they come from nowhere. I kept that in mind and watched both a local and an international news segment. I then watched about 5 minutes worth of a of reality show about hoarders. It was a stunning and powerful exercise. I looked at the people and thought, “To what thought, or system of beliefs must that person be attached such that he or she did or said X?”

As another example, I recently read about a pre-teen male child who, due to illness required a colostomy bag. The bullying and jeering from fellow students created so much suffering that the young boy committed suicide rather than live with the situation. Again, one must ask, “To what thought, or system of beliefs were the bullies attached such that they would engage in such activity?” The same question would apply to the victim, “To what thought, or system of beliefs was he attached such that he thought suicide was the only solution?”

The amount of tangible and intangible suffering caused by the belief in a separate self, at the personal and global level, is quite staggering. It’s effect can be quite profound. It’s amazing to think that all it takes to step away from suffering is a willingness to inquire into what you think you already know and uncover the truth.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

When I saw myself as my thoughts, there was suffering. I was always concerned about being good enough, being right, and being in control? I could get quite triggered by something seen on the news.

Now, life simply happens. The character isn’t required to get things done. The character seems to move into the background a little more each day. Since the character isn’t in the forward position, there’s less interpretation and by extension, a reduction in being at the effect of externals.

Before the dialogue, my emotions and feelings could be ignited by some event or something on the news. Now there may be a mild curiosity but I’m no longer attached and needing to express a point of view much less be right about it. Now, there’s simply an awareness and observation of whatever’s occurring and no need to do or say anything about it. It’s happening and that’s it.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Being asked, “Without labels, what is here?” I later realized that in the instant after the question had been posed, there had been silence, awareness, aliveness, a sense of being alert and attentive, in a word, beingness. That beingness was not only the answer to the question but it had also been present all along.

5) Can you talk about decision, intention, free will, choice and control? What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

No-one exists to engage in such activity. Thoughts are empty things that come from nowhere. Yesterday, I was sitting in the family room. The dog walked to the sliding glass door, I got up let the dog out and sat back down. The character was not present. Something needed doing and it was done. I said to myself, “OK, what just happened.” I replayed the event and a thought came in saying, “I closed the door.” That, however, wasn’t true. The character, the I had not been present. No decision or choice had been made… no intention had been set prior to the action. Thought came riding in afterwards to claim credit for the event.

Choice, control, decision-making, free will, and intention are all forms of thought which come from nowhere.
As for responsibility, that is another concept. Responsibility infers the presence of another, as in responsible to or responsible for. There is no I, no separate individual. Since no-one and nothing exists, there is no-one and nothing to be responsible to; no-one and nothing to be responsible for. Unlike ‘The Wizard of Oz’, there is no man behind the curtain.
All there is -is aliveness which is unified, whole and complete; it is undivided and without fragmentation. Things happen because they happen. As I said previously, thoughts are empty things that arise from nowhere, exist, then evaporate.

6) Anything to add?

To see This, first, you must be 100% committed to seeing it. It can’t be a nice idea, an intellectual curiosity. You have got to pursue this as if you have no other choice.

Second, you must be open with a willingness to set aside your current beliefs about how things are and engage in rigorous inquiry. No-one can give this to you.

Your beliefs might rush in saying, “Yeah, but…”, “OK, but what about…?”, “I was taught that…”, “My other teacher or the book I read said…” All this must be pushed aside and sometimes quite aggressively.

Third, you must engage in active listening. Listen carefully to the words your guide is using. Be sure you are clear on the context within which the words are being used. Sometimes, when you review what was asked or said, you realize that what you thought you heard versus what was actually said are two different things.

Fourth, this ties in with number 2… practical application… You can’t just sit and ponder, you must apply the ideas to your life; see them in action. Do the work.

Fifth, be 100% honest with your guide and with yourself. You can’t cheat your way through this. Wherever you are in your understanding or lack thereof is fine, but your guide can’t help you if you are withholding. Withholding is unfair both to the guide and yourself.

I think that this was probably the greatest battle I’ve ever had with my mind, my character, but when the truth is seen, it is seen and can never be unseen.

This here, now is all there is. Transitory appearances emerge, exist, and disappear. One movement; everything happening at once; a symphony! Anything other than This, Here, Now is a story. It truly is liberation, for no-one.

Love,