Beginning
Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:46 pm
I need a guide. I am ready to get started. Mary.
Liberation Unleashed Forum The Gate
https://liberationunleashed.com:443/nation/
https://liberationunleashed.com:443/nation/viewtopic.php?t=677
I want to be very clear that this is not a spiritual endeavour. The outcome of the inquiry may well bring awareness of the infinite, but the inquiry is not spiritual and certainly not religious. It is an inquiry to find the truth of who you are. It is really important to put any existing beliefs aside as they will obscure that inquiry. The fact that you study ACIM and Eckhart Tolle is of no consequence to the dialog we will have together and you may find it helpful to put both aside until the inquiry process is concluded.A friend of mine awakened and told me about LU. I think that this is so amazing that people are awakening this way. I have been seeking connection with God since a very young age. Recently have been very attracted to The Course in Miracles and Eckhart Tolle.
Every expectation you might have will be an expectation of your mind. The goal is Truth realization, not to achieve joy, bliss, happiness or any other temporary state. Have no expectations but an openness to whatever Truth brings{quote]I have fear about loosing the self; that I'll cease to exist or that I won't be able to take care of myself.I'm not sure what to expect. I hope for more joy in my life, to be clearer on my purpose, for more fulfilling experiences.
This is a common belief, occasioned by reading or hearing too many over-dramatised accounts of those in the “guru industry” Statements like “dying before you die” and nihilistic accounts of “what it all means” tell everything about those who say or write those things and nothing of the Truth. My experience is one of profound gain, not loss.
Mary, the first thing I'd like you to look at is the difference between what is real and what is not. I would like you to take a walk outside and, as you walk list down those things that, to you are real. Tell me what those real things are and why you believe them to be real. Then, when you’re somewhere quiet consider those things that you encounter every day but which are not real. List down those things which seem to exist, but which are un-real. Tell me why they are unreal
To help, I’m going to say that your senses of touch, sight, hearing, taste and smell directly input aspects of reality for you to experience. If a hand touches a car, then the sensation of touch can reassure you that the car is real and not a figment of your imagination. But if I see a car in a brochure but can’t directly touch or see that car, then the car in the brochure is not real – there is no direct experience of the car - the picture in the brochure is an illusion. For our purposes, the definition of “illusionary” just means we have misunderstood what something is in actuality, that something we perceive isn't what we think it is.
Have fun :-)
Mike
Spot onWhen I go outside the things of nature seem real. The plants, trees, ground, etc.
Be careful – “can touch them” is an intellectual supposition. . Just because you can touch something doesn’t make it real! Our reality is that which can be directly experienced. If we can’t directly experience it, it is only an illusion – which is to say, it is not verifiably real. We need to always remember that anything that is said (or believed) to exist outside of direct experience is purely conjecture. In this case, as written, if you haven’t actually touched an object to verify its “realness”, then you can’t assume that it is real.Also three demensional man made objects such as cars, sidewalks and trash seem real. I see all these things and can touch them to prove that they are real.
This observation about the breeze bears out the point that you don’t always have to see something for it to be real. This is going to be important to remember. You can’t see the energy that is breeze but you can feel it and know that it is not illusionaryThe breeze I think is real because I can feel it on my skin.
Correct. Is it “you” or is the "mind" that doesn’t “really understand?”When I go inside the house I know that the images on the television or the computer are not real, that they are made through electronic magic that I don't really understand.
Can you see the clouds? Can you see them move?” If you can, then they are real.Then when I go back outside and look at the sky and the clouds I know that they are not electronic images, but I can't prove to myself that they are real by touching them.
Whoa! A belief can never be proven as “real” A belief is always illusionary (ever tried to touch or see or smell a belief. The same with thought – completely illusionary. Just because “I” have accepted something as a belief does not make it real! A belief is always, always, always illusionaryThey are real because I have been told what they are and believe that they are real.
No way. Direct experience is YOUR direct experience. Only your direct experience makes it real TO YOU. A group of people can each witness the same accident. Yet any policeman will tell you that people rarely agree on what they each directly saw. Why? Every person has their own reality happening. Directly experienced means that YOU have to directly experience it!I may even find someone to look at them too. If they see what I see I could say that they are real.
I also know that paintings and photographs are not real. They only represent what is real. So, this is as far as I have gotten.Cool – well done. You will need to continue practicing the “this is real” and “this is illusionary” approach as you go through the next week or so. Remember, direct means direct to YOU, and that sometimes, the illusionary can be well disguised as a “realness” that we have accepted for years without question
I want to move the focus now to consider that “I” that you’ve used frequently in sentences. We know that, gramatically the “I” as a pronoun that “points to “me” (or to terms such as “myself”)As such the pronoun is simply a label. The "I" does not exist. What is it pointing to?
Tell me, from your direct experience what the word “I” is pointing to when you use it. To get you started, if it points to your body (as in “I” am my body”, tell me where in the body this “I”-ness is to be found.
Other places to look? “I” am my mind; “I” am my relationship; “I” am my qualification, “I” am my career; “I” am my golf club or recreational group; “I” am my career; “I” am my bank balance”, “I” am my …….” And so on. Record the results of all of your avenues of investigation - including whether what it is pointing to is real or illusionary
What are “you” Mary?
Have fun looking :-))
Mike
An experience occurs with input we directly receive from our senses – and from thought. This a smell of fresh baking while walking could lead to entering the bakery, buying a freshly baked item and eating it. The sensory iput led to the experience. A thought “must ring mum” appears and that leads to the experience of making a phone call. Experiences are everyday “slices of life”. Those slices of life involve reality (the input) and lead to us “doing something” that is also real.Is what you are saying in your last post that If we can experience something it is real?
That’s what it’s all about!I've been looking for the I that I think I am.
Don’t lose sight of the fact that you’ve had a lifetime of conditioning which has created an “apparent I” that seemingly is real. In fact, a newborn has no self-concept and it’s not until around the age of 3 that the baby identifies the word “I” with what they are. Parents etc then reinforce that belief in “I” though loving and/or critical comments aimed at teaching the child how to behave, how to act etc. If you watch a parent at work, their early conditioning of the baby will involve tying an expectation (eg how to eat properly) with an identity (the baby) that they will label as “you” or “Johnny” – and make comments like “don’t (you) eat your toast like that”. School reinforces this conditioning that the “I” is the body called Johnny and adds a whole bundle of other beliefs such as “Johnny is a good boy” or “Johnny is good at maths”, “Johnny is hopeless at writing”, “Johnny is an aggressive and demanding child” etc etc. Once schooling stops adding its overlay of belief to poor Johnny, the workplace takes over and adds a whole lot more. By the time Johnny has reached early adulthood, he has completely lost the newborn’s lack of self-belief and is almost overwhelmed by a belief structure that defines who “he” is, what “he’s” good at, what “his personality is – and so on.I don't think of myself as my job, my relationship, my stuff, or what I am doing this time in my life. I beleive it to be real because I am experiencing the drama of it all.
The drama of it all is occurring and this body/mind with the label “Mary” may be part of that drama. But when Mary (through convention) uses the “I” pronoun, is she associating that pronoun with the illusionary identity of “Mary” or is the “I” pronoun pointing to a Truth beyond the illusion?Sometimes I get too caught up in the drama and try to make that who I am, but it never works. So the things I have or do are not me.
Excellent. There is a body, but that is not who “I” amIs the I my body? My body is real because I experience it, but I don't find the me there. I've felt detached from my body yet envying other's bodies. Again, I'm trying to make my body who I am and it doesn't work.
“Personality” is a concept of the mind alone – and reinforced by the whole advertising and self-help industry that perpetuates the myth of “you are an individual” What rubbish. Quantum physics is reinforcing what sages have said for millennia: that we are all connected. There is no such thing as “an individual”. Definitely no such thing as “my personality” or “your personality” So, there might be the concept of a personality attached to this body, but that is not who “I” amAm I my personality? Lately I don't care for my personality; I would like to change it. I think that it would be possible to change it with enough work( perhaps electric shock). I don't think that the personality is real anyway. If I can change it and it isn't real then that can't be who I am.
Well done! It’s a belief that the brain stores thoughts. It is simply not known where thoughts come from or where they go to. It’s not established whether the brain stores thought or not, or where “memory” is located (if it is located anywhere!) The ability to respond to thought is clearly of evolutionary advantage to humans, but it is a conditioned belief that says that the “I” can think. The “I” has no ability to generate thoughts – simply not possible. The brain is not self-aware and does not generate thoughts. There is no mind in the body. Thoughts simply appear. Descartes got it 100% wrong when he linked the existence of the “I” to the ability to thing (“I think therefore I am). Thinking occurs, but the “I” does not think. There are thoughts, but not “my thoughts”How about my thoughts? Thats tough. I think that I am my thoughts. It can't be true though. Who makes the thoughts? If I stop thinking, which is rare but possible, where am I? My brain just stores the thoughts so the brain isn't me. Thoughts don't seem to be real. Sometimes I have thoughts that just pop into my head. Where do they come from?
You’re on a roll Mary. Illusions are starting to crumble in a big way here!Feelings don't seem to be real either. Feelings depend on thoughts. They come and go. They are not me.
There certainly is a “Big Me” or an “I” that is not illusionary…welcome to the “pointy end” of the inquiry!Lately I've been thinking of there being a Big Me and a Little Me(Mini Me). That the big me is my higher self and the little me is the person who is walking around thinking. If the little me is my thoughts and personality and there isn't really a little me there, am I the Big Me?
It’s a funny thing about labels that as soon as you put one on something, you believe that the label “is” something. You have created a label called “Big Me” and you’re associating that label with the “I” (as in “I am Big Me”). A belief that there is a “Big Me” is starting to form and , as you’ve told me, beliefs are illusionary. In truth, you followed your intuition and went to the woods – but where does intuition come from?Today I was trying to decide if on my day off I should go for a walk in the woods or run errands. Of course there were all the thoughts of the pros and cons. I thought who is having the thoughts and who is going to make this decision? I ended up going to the woods and realized that I knew that the best action was to go to the woods without all of the thought. So I didn't even need the little me to think about it, the Big Me knew.
And you’d be quite right. But your last sentence shows is an intellectual conclusion. Let’s “deconstruct” the sentence:So in the woods I started thinking about who the Big Me is, as per your instructions. I see the Big Me as the Infinite.
It’s an illusion that there is an “out there”. In reality, there is no “out there”, nor is there an “in here”. Try a little experiment. Sit somewhere quiet where you will not be disturbed and close your eyes. Focus your attention at a point anywhere in the body. Don’t expect to see anything in particular, just notice what you notice. Form an impression of what is there. Now shift your focus to another part of your body. Again just notice what you notice. Spend as long as you comfortably can. Now tell me: did you sense anything there? Anything at all?As I looked around I believe everything to be of the Infinite. I realized that I say that I know the Big Me to be myself, but I really think of it as somewhere out there.
The mind will have a belief that to even think such a thing is preposterous. In Truth nothing is stopping you except the illusions that your beliefs impose.My next question was, "What is stopping me from believing that I am part of the big Me or walking through the gate?"
There is no other person. There is just the illusion of other people.What popped into my head is the thought of a friend of mine who bothers me because I think he is arrogant. I'm afraid that if I become Aware, I will become arrogant. I realized as I walked that arrogance is about thinking you are better than another person.
You got itHow can I think that I am better if I truely see that we are all equal?
Back to fear! Arrogance is another label. The concept of arrogance only exists because there is a label. You believe in the label. What if there was no label? What would there be left?And isn't it the hieght of arrogance to think that I am a special little Mini Me? Wow!
That was a little trip down the fear isle! In Truth, you are neither fearful nor not-fearful. Fear simply does not exist – it is not real. When was the last time you saw a fearful tree, or a fearful cloud, or a fearful glass of water. Fear is a human thing. Why? It’s a mind thing. Something happens, the mind gets involved, and sooner or later, the belief “I am afraid” will either develop or be retrieved from wherever already-formed beliefs go to. I then feel fearful. On its own, the body is not afraid. Ever taken a step off a footpath only to quickly jump back. The mind didn’t do that, the body did – the R-complex brain tasked with the “fight or flight” role caused an involuntary (reflex) action to occur. The body will always take steps to protect itself - without any involvement of the mind. It’s the mind that creates fear. Fear is illusionary. Take the belief “I am a fearful person” away and what’s left?I reallized that another fear of mine is that I am afraid to be powerful. I am afraid of hurting people. Since infancy, I believe, I have been making myself as small and invisible as possible only allowing myself to make enough money to just support myself. I thought about Oprah. Is she really powerful? She needs to delegate people to do things for her, even buy her clothes. If she used her money for charity, would it really help? It seems to me that she would not be powerful if she opperates from the little me and would only be truely powerful if she opperates from the Big Me. Which she may be doing, I don't really know Oprah enough to say.
I’d like you to consider deeply that all beliefs exist to reinforce the identity of the “I”, and that the “I” will continue to exist as long as there are beliefs to give it an identity. The “self” is simply a label given to the accumulation of beliefs as an identity to the “I”Deep inside I know that even with my extreme attempt to keep myself small, that I am powerful already. Imagine what I could do if I allowed myself to see myself as the Big Me?
It helps me to look at my thoughts and challege them.