The Gate

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:24 pm**

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
The inherent self is a conception formed from social conditioning an experiences centered around the sense of "I". Really "I" is just a thought that unifies all sensory data and experience as though that is happening to "me" and takes ownership of experience.

What are you looking for at LU?
Though no self has been seen through and experienced as thoughts interacting with other thoughts. There was no one no self experiencing. Very clear that its all an illusion.The transition from truth to day to day life get to be confusing at times. Clarity is needed.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
There are no expectations. Open to what ever is offered. It's been that way through out this process. No limitations and no expectations.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
This while process started in recovery and AA 12 step program. The 12 steps puts you in a position where you face your self and all actions and accept them as yours. Then gradually the steps breaks down ego and accept things as they are. You see all faults within the character of you and understand the character is not real. This is in an intellectual way. The "spiritual" side cleared out the junk within and open a channel of the peace and calm that has always been there. Waking up from.the dream of being caught up in constant thoughts and what if. Read and watch YouTube videos on self inquiry and all the popular stuff. Saw they were all saying the same thing. Got frustrated to the point that everything was given up on. Experiences the nothingness and oneness. Also tried ayahusca, helped faced some deeper emotional issues and put a direct experience with self. It aided in understanding self and how it came about. Ayahusca experience are all based in self, so that was seen as a hindrance to go deeper down that path. Eventually one night, was laying in bed and was deconstruction identity. Each name that refers to "ME" had its own guide lines, though patterns ETC. Husband, father, brothe,r son, friend. Each was seen for the thoughts and.conditions that lend reality to them. Eventually got the the point of the very first memory as a child. Wanted to know what was looking at all of this and what was before the memory was formed. At that point something said "let go". That's where the illusion was lifted. There was no me there no I there. Just the thoughts interacting with though. No witness none of that spiritual stuff. Just the truth.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

Posted: **Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:26 am**

Hey
Welcome. I’m Sarah and I’d be happy to speak with you.
What would you like me to call you?
Have you read my threads then! And looked around the site? You know what we do here?

So you mention some confusion with working this out in day to day life. Can you expand on that a bit please.
Looking forward to speaking with you.
Hugs Sarah xxx

Posted: **Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:00 pm**

Hello,
Thank you for taking the time to help. Name is not important lol call me whatever you would like. Actually reading the threads and looking at the you tube vids browsing the site help cleared up quite a few things.

All of this is very new, been about 1 year of spiritually searching to realize searching is why it couldn't be found. The confusion was in what IS and language we use in convention. Anyways just being here on the site cleared up any questions or concerns. Reading the stories of others awakening and those still looking really clarify this experience.

Posted: **Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:22 pm**

So you mention some confusion with working this out in day to day life. Can you expand on that a bit please.

the confusion comes when speaking. the language and its structure contradicts all that is. in the beginning of seeing through "self" eveytime i spoke it seems to re-enforce "self". thats why its hard to see through. as time passed the confusion subside and what IS pervades. Now there is a sense of self within the heart clinging to one thing, my 3 year old daughter. Ive spent time looking into this and the feelings and emotions that comes up. there is a knowing she is not mines and she cannot be owned, the emotional attachment to her is so strong that if she is let go of there is no reason to exist anymore. its a strange thing........this process is so deep that the conception of reality, once that is let go of, all of reality vanishes. Nothing in way of the senses. all objects vanishes from the senses. The though of the 3 year old brings reality back. It is known in direct experience that even reality is formed from the sense of "I". Can be sitting meditating with eyes wide open with people in the room. Then all forms disappear, only the essence remains. the "idea" of who the people are disappear and along with the idea their forms. in day to day life, nothing exist but the present moment, everything else is a mental impression and the connection to the impression is a sense of "i", as the impression comes it is immediately seen as false and the impression falls away. Nothing exist beyond the present moment and even that in reality does not exist.

Posted: **Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:21 am**

Morning
Ok so is that love not also part of this moment?
Are you thinking that it shouldn’t be there? Or not directed to one thing ie your daughter?
Is there weight their when you say ‘my daughter’ as apposed to daughter? Or ‘my money’ as opposed to money?
Is the word actually it whatever it is? E.g. is the word water actually water?
Hugs Sarah xxx

Posted: **Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:19 pm**

Morning
Ok so is that love not also part of this moment? No.

Are you thinking that it shouldn’t be there? Or not directed to one thing ie your daughter? Nothing cant hold on to something, the illusion of love for "my daughter" is the "self" created delusion that the feeling of love is "mine", and that is for her. illusion within and illusion. Love is a delusion. Same way we wouldn't take negative emotions to be ours, why would we take positive emotions. What makes them negative or positive? Just a perception from a personal view would make it negative or positive.

Is there weight their when you say ‘my daughter’ as apposed to daughter? no weight there at all. It is understood in direct experience she does not exist, nor is she "mine" to claim or own.

Or ‘my money’ as opposed to money? Money is the same way, there are no attachments to anything or anyone anymore. Just to the little one.

Is the word actually it whatever it is? E.g. is the word water actually water? Words are a container for what is being spoken about. The word contains the direct experience it is trying to explain but cannot. The word "water" points to something. "Water" is not water. The direct experience of "that", "water", is what the word "water" is trying to point at. Words should not be taken as is but explored to what is.

Hugs Sarah xxx
[/quote]

Thank you.

Posted: **Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:42 am**

Ok so is that love not also part of this moment?
No.

And

Nothing cant hold on to something, the illusion of love for "my daughter" is the "self" created delusion that the feeling of love is "mine", and that is for her. illusion within and illusion. Love is a delusion. Same way we wouldn't take negative emotions to be ours, why would we take positive emotions. What makes them negative or positive? Just a perception from a personal view would make it negative or positive.

So if this love ‘delusion’ is not part of this moment what or where is it then?
Are you saying it doesn’t belong in it? To be gotten rid of?

You know TV shows aren’t real but do you watch them constantly thinking ‘they’re all actors, this isn’t real’ even though you already know that and can set it aside to enjoy the show.
Does loving your child mean there’s now a ‘you’.

If there never was a me, there’s nothing to come back. Once you’ve seen an illusion you can’t unsee it but you can choose to act along with it as in this case because we still have aspects of our experiencing which are conditioned- a body, senses, thoughts, feelings. Real? No, (unless we real as a thought, real as a feeling). Part of this experiencing? Yes.
Hugs Sarah xxx

Posted: **Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:13 pm**

Makes sense. Really none of that stuff matters. Feeling, emotions etc. Really and truly I don't know anything. What is existance and what is this "i" that claims it exist? All along I've been looking at this wrong. I've been trying to prove "i" dont exist by ignoring existance or what does exist. Accepting that "i" don't exist removes the separation. As it has been point out to me. I've been denying self because I viewed it as something separate. Realizing self as not separate removes the concept of "me" "i" "self" as separate form what's going on. All is as it is, nothing changed. All is as its always been. Had a conversation with a member that clarify it beautifully. Lol not only didn't I know, I was wrong about what I though I knew lol. Denying self to prove it doesn't exist is lol sooooooo hmmmmmm oh man. Accepting self is to see the illusion.

Posted: **Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:10 pm**

Indeed. Read my strap line! Lol. It’s turtles all the way down!

Can I ask you a few questions just for clarification?
Hugs Sarah xxx

Posted: **Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:59 pm**

Posted: **Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:12 am**

Rightyho then. ;)
So - just to sum up can you answer these in as much detail as you feel is necessary. Theres no rush! :)

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.
How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
Anything to add?
Hugs Sarah xxx

Posted: **Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:22 am**

Rightyho then. ;)
So - just to sum up can you answer these in as much detail as you feel is necessary. Theres no rush! :)

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
No, there is no separation between I,me, self. Those are just thoughts. It seems to be real by the way experience and sense perception is unified around the thought of I, Me, Self. Upon looking deeper its not that way at all. The illusion is the though that thinks it exist and fortifies this belief by unifying experience by way of sense perceptions as though the "I"is the center and all is happening because it wills it.

Was there ever?
No, never was and can never be. Cannot be found anywhere any place any time.

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

Separate self is an illusion formed around the though or the sense of "I". It is created by conditions and social exhortations placed upon us as children. It is when we first sense our self as separate from all that is. The first time we became self aware as a self separate from all that is. It really is a story that is created around a character with a running dialog and commentary all day long. A thought moving from though to though in an endless stream, never taking a break. All that is just "IS". As the separation occurs as we grow there is another layer added to the separation that further deludes us. That layer is language, as we attempt to describe our environment in the way of objects. We created a language to describe the undesirable and take the words to mean what is being describe without looking at what the words are pointing too. A dream within the illusion of another dream. Caught hooked line and sinker. The I claims events are happening to it and I is the cause of said event.

As it is seen now, everything is occurring as it is. Music is playing, its not playing inside your head, its just playing. Sounds are happening, thoughts arise and fall away. Seeing just is. All happening in a space together but each happening separately. There is a flow arising out of endless conditions. No beginning or end. The way of being before separation as self aware from a child. I do not know how else to say that. The way "I" is used now is a point of reference within conversation to distinguish between 2 people. Completely false and meaningless but necessary for social convention. There is no way to find the "Point OF I" when thoroughly looked at. Lol now the though comes to mind "why even bother thinking or speaking"? LOL

How does it feel to see this?
There isnt a feeling. There is a........well seeing the world with a fresh set of eyes. Really its seeing what is as it is, how it has always been. I can look at the sun or a beam of light and truly see. Actually there is no way to describe this, you have to experience that for yourselves.

What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
Before we started to talk, self was seen through. It was seen as a thought thinking a though that was me and me in return though i was real. So identity it self is what was seen through as the though of I in an experiential way. There was no i there experiencing just though experiencing and interacting with thought. No "me' was there, no concepts. Actually just thoughts and no other sense perceptions. After that there was great confusion with speaking and thoughts. Language seem to contradict the experience. Excuse my language THAT WAS EFFIN MADDINING!!!!!!!!! Man. I was using language and intellect to prove that "I" did not exist by ignoring existence and all that is. Within the experience all of what is disappeared and only thoughts remained. So I thought all of existence was created by thoughts so it wasnt real. Lol, it was the other way around. The "I" thought was the creator of me and it was "me" that was not real as the source of "me" the thought of "I" was just that, A though. Hang on to your skull, know the feeling. The "i" is identity and is completely conceptual. Anyways the conversations over the past few days shifted perception. Looking in a direct way and seeing what is, undescribed, unfiltered by mind and concepts. Accepting self is accepting the illusion. Accepting "I" didnt exist by seeing what has always been here.

What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
Reaching to the point, and truly admitting to myself that i did not know. Once that point was reach i was done and asked for help. And that was it. Acceptance.

Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life?
No.

Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
Yes "I" make everything possible that is the reality of the illusion. Beyond the delusion of self, there are only conditions. Everything happens because of something else and is dependent upon. Example, i was driving today. Though popped up, "explain who is driving". Looking into it no one driving. "How"? .................its overwhelming how long is going to take to explain this. LOL. Look into it, no one is driving trust the "me" thats not here.

Anything to add?
Thank you.
Hugs Sarah xxx

Posted: **Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:42 am**

Hey
Thanks for that. I’ll get back to you as soon as I can. Hugs Sarah xxx

The Gate

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