The Gate

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
Everything is happening. Walking, talking, opening the coffee jar, sipping, closing the lid. Everything from the smallest action like moving an arm to the biggest deal like falling in love. It is all a whole bunch of thought, action, thought, action, thought. I do NOTHING. I am not needed.
I = blah blah
:(

What are you looking for at LU?
No Self became a reality for me in 2010. Truckloads of spiritual books, sifting the net for hours on end, watching a zillion YT vids did nothing, but then one day while making coffee with intense focus on 'Looking' and I 'got it'. Soon, later, I heard about people's wow experiences and started chasing them for myself. It has been 7 yrs of that hamster's wheel. Help me get off the wheel, please.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Hoping someone kind will tell me that I am on the wrong track. I got it all wrong. Or, they tell me the right approach to what I chase. Please forgive me if I have not explained well. 7 years of this 'desire' to visit the La La Land and failing is torture. The ads said it is possible. So I kept trying. Something doesn't want to give up. Stupid yes, but I am being honest.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I meditate regularly without any formal training since. Somewhere after 2010 I stopped seeking the Truth, instead, I started seeking a wonderful experience. Anything, a moment of bliss, seeing fireworks, lights, anything that is not This. So far, nothing. You could call me an idiot who wants a psychedelic trip without using psychedelics.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

Hello Mona,

My name is Wesley, welcome to Liberation Unleashed :). I'm a guide here and would be happy to guide you if you agree.

Wow, thanks for sharing your experience. You are very honest and sincere. I know how exhausting this seeking is, really. It's good that you want to jump off the hamster wheel because this hopefully means you're willing to look, fortunate for you it's even easier than this and there will be no jumping necessary ;).

Before we start the guiding I have a few guidelines.

-I'm a guide, not a teacher, and so have nothing to offer you other than to help you see for yourself. The questions that I ask are to get you to look at your direct experience, which is what you see/hear/smell/taste/touch. We're aiming to differentiate between what is thought content and what is here with or without thoughts.
-Please put aside all books, videos, teachings. None of that will help you to look for yourself and see what's real and not.
-Do your best to post daily for the sake of keeping up momentum it really helps do make this consistent, and if things come up no problem let's just try to keep each other informed.
-Here's how to use the quote function: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

So everything sounding okay so far?

First, are there any big fears around this inquiry? Fear and intense emotions are normal to come up during this inquiry, and so please do feel free to share and tell me if this happens and we can take a look together. I would like you to feel free to share anything that seems important to you.

Anything, a moment of bliss, seeing fireworks, lights, anything that is not This.

Interesting, anything that is not 'This', meaning anything that is not right here right now? What isn't here now and how is it experienced? Can you leave or escape "This"?

Looking forward to your answers,
Wesley

Hi Wesley,

First of all, many many thanks. So kind of you.

I will try my best to reply asap on the same day. I will stick to your advice as best as I can and won't use any other sources (online/offline). Will not beat around the bush with spiritual blah and will remain intensely honest and focused. Please whack me on my head if I start intellectualising ;)

First, are there any big fears around this inquiry?

Yes, the fear of no self. Fear of the unknown with no control. Self is comforting. It is known.

Getting close to surrender fills me with this immense fear and I jerk out of meditation, hyperventilating, heart beating fast, sweaty palms. It is scary.

What isn't here now and how is it experienced?

All manifests as Thoughts. That is how I experience There/Then. They don't exist outside Thought. Even NOW is just sensory input and the Mind making up shapes, colours, solids, movement, objects etc. Those shapes include my body. I don't know this because I took someone's word for it. I actually looked one day while making coffee and had that eureka moment.

I have since constructed a bunch of concepts.
" If I could gather up the courage to give up the ego self, there will be bliss/fireworks or other such stuff. "
Obviously, this other stuff is not here now. It is experienced as Thoughts. I get these thoughts and meditate hoping "Maybe NOW I will experience the bliss."

Can you leave or escape "This"?

Unfortunately, I know I cannot. This is all there is, but This keeps changing. So if all these people who report having visited the La La Land are being honest then maybe This will change similarly for me and I will also have a glimpse. So I enthusiastically meditate to set the stage for such a moment. And then moments later I chicken out.

Thanks a lot for your time.
Big Hug
Mona

Hi Mona,

First of all, many many thanks. So kind of you.

Happy to do it :)

I will try my best to reply asap on the same day. I will stick to your advice as best as I can and won't use any other sources (online/offline). Will not beat around the bush with spiritual blah and will remain intensely honest and focused. Please whack me on my head if I start intellectualising ;)

You will find a rhythm i'm sure, but I think every day is a good guideline, whenever it fits in there and if it's not until much later or until the next day it's okay. Just a guideline to help keep the momentum up.

Yes, the fear of no self. Fear of the unknown with no control. Self is comforting. It is known.

Perhaps let's start with becoming friendly with fear. It's going to be here, even after seeing through the illusion of a separate self, fear/anxiety will likely still arise even if it's less. Can you see that it is allowed to be here, that just like everything else included in what's happening, fear is okay? Even to feel? As best you can, appreciate this fear for doing it's job of trying to keep you safe.

Fear of the unknown with no control.

What is the unknown? How do you know it is unknown? Is the absence of a self 'the unknown'?

I have since constructed a bunch of concepts.
" If I could gather up the courage to give up the ego self, there will be bliss/fireworks or other such stuff. "
Obviously, this other stuff is not here now. It is experienced as Thoughts. I get these thoughts and meditate hoping "Maybe NOW I will experience the bliss."

Yes only natural ;), especially after eureka moments such as you described. Forming of concepts and beliefs plays a very big role in this. We'll revisit this later, I'd like to look at the fear first.

Looking forward to your answers,
Wesley

Hi Wesley, thanks for the reply.

Perhaps let's start with becoming friendly with fear.

I have been trying. Facing the fear, inching forward and trying to relax.

As best you can, appreciate this fear for doing it's job of trying to keep you safe.

Fear trying to keep me safe? Sorry, I think you just said something very profound but I don't fully understand. How can fear be used as a safety mechanism? Pls elaborate.

What is the unknown? How do you know it is unknown?

If I knew the unknown, it would no longer be unknown, it would become known lol. So unknown is unknowable I guess.
Maybe fear of Unknown is not the best phrase, let us say it is the fear-of-losing-control. No matter how false, it is reassuring to have that false sense of control. Even a base jumper knows what might happen to him if he fails. But the kind of jump I wish to take has the Unknown on the other side. And that is scary.

Is the absence of a self 'the unknown'?

I meditate with a blindfold and earplugs to cut out sensory inputs. Kind of simulated absence of Self. Physical and Mental. Few mins later, when I get closer to the absence of a Physical and Mental Self, everything rapidly goes darker than the usual dark. It feels like entering a void. Body goes numb and feelings/sensations disappear. That is NOTHING like bliss, that is like dying. In that moment the best option seems to be latching on to something familiar. It is either death or the good old Body/Mind. I choose Body/Mind and abort the meditation. But...

On a positive note - Off late I am being able to stay with that feeling a bit longer than before. Even relax for as long as I want to. But no bliss. Just me meditating in that darkness for hours ... waiting. This is worse. This is boring. Nothing exciting happens.

Forming of concepts and beliefs plays a very big role in this. We'll revisit this later, I'd like to look at the fear first.

Sure.

Thanks again,
Hugs
Mona

Hi Mona,

Good, stay with the fear when it's there. Just feel the sensations that are "fear" and notice the thoughts around them, and let it be here as it's here anyways.

Fear trying to keep me safe? Sorry, I think you just said something very profound but I don't fully understand. How can fear be used as a safety mechanism? Pls elaborate.

Well, what do you find when you look at this fear? Look at the sensations present, notice the thoughts happening. What are they? What seems to be their purpose?

Perhaps you are thinking that you will lose something, or that 'you' will disappear entirely and of course in response to this fear arises, as if to say "that sounds bad, or dangerous, something bad may happen, we should avoid that". This is perfectly natural. Welcome, even care for this fear and at the same time you can look for whether it's based on anything real or just a thought.

If I knew the unknown, it would no longer be unknown, it would become known lol. So unknown is unknowable I guess.

So if you have never experienced 'the unknown', how is it you know that it exists?

If you cannot find a self of any kind right now, than how do you know a self will disappear or die? Look right now, can you find 'me' anywhere? Can you see/smell/taste/touch a 'me' anywhere? What is really happening right now?

Mona, I would recommend you put aside the meditation with a blindfold and earplugs for now, if this is possible. If you're totally set on meditating I would recommend this: sitting and just going through each sense perception "what is seen? What is heard? What do I smell? What sensations are present, and where? What thoughts are arising? And than perhaps noticing the breath for as long as you feel like doing this.

The absence of 'me' is not absence of sensory input, or total darkness, it's already the case. Self is a belief, and all that's needed to see through the illusion is simply dropping a belief, ceasing to believe in a thought.

Hug,
Wesley

Hi Wesley thx for the reply,

Notice the thoughts happening. What are they?

Just weightless, shapeless, colourless nothings. They come and go and can only be experienced by me. They fade in only for a moment and then they fade away. But they never stop. Their content can be different but they are all Thoughts. Like the content of each page in a book can be different but it is all paper. That is what I make of Thoughts.

Body reacts to the thoughts. But I noticed that the body's reaction too is very limited. Like ..

Fear/Extreme Joy = Goosebumps.
Fear/Excitement = Raised heartbeat.

But that is Body/Mind. Fear Thoughts lead to more Fear Thoughts lead to Bodily sensations lead to more Fear Thoughts ...

What seems to be their purpose?

I have no idea. I don't want to regurgitate any spiritual or scientific nonsense. Like they are there to perpetuate a Self. Or it is for the survival of the creature. Honestly, they serve no purpose. They are not even real. So I don't have any idea why they are there.

Perhaps you are thinking that you will lose something, or that 'you' will disappear entirely.

No, I am thinking that I will be around in some form to witness what happens. Lol and that is scarier than disappearing. Also I am certain that I want to know what happens, which is why I meditate. But the moment it feels like I am at that point, I chicken out. So the curiosity coaxes me to meditate and the fear pulls me out.

Also, the fear only comes during meditation. Not normally. I am perfectly find with the No Self. Life is so much better without the false self. It is easy. But since with meditation I seek an otherworldly experience, I am unsure if that experience will be good or bad. But like a junkie, I don't stop seeking it.

Welcome, even care for this fear and at the same time you can look for whether it's based on anything real or just a thought.

Yes, I have been doing that for the past 2 years. And I can now meditate for as long as I want. The fear evaporates. But then it gets boring. As nothing really happens after that. My purpose for meditation is perhaps not spiritual. Wanting bliss is no different from wanting a fast car or a luxury yacht. It is just a plain simple, naked, human desire. So once the fear disappears, the meditation is just me sitting with nothing. No adventure. Not even Fear to spice things up lol.

So if you have never experienced 'the unknown', how is it you know that it exists?

Just a hunch. Also I have been able to convince myself there is a whole lot of unknown out there. Known is just a fraction of it. We did not know of the sub-atomic particles a century ago. They were unknown and now they are Known. We did not know that we live in a Galaxy Cluster. It is now Known. As we make the unknown known, we expand the known universe. That probably answers the question = "What is the Universe expanding into?" It is expanding into the collective human Thought. It lives in Thought. It is just knowledge. Universe is Thoughts. It is observer based. And the observer is not people. People are thoughts too. I keep thinking about all this. Bad habit I know. It forms unbreakable beliefs and concepts.

If you cannot find a self of any kind right now, than how do you know a self will disappear or die?

This is the realm of Self. Self looking for self. Self finding no self. Self worrying it will disappear or die. :( This is terrible.

Can you see/smell/taste/touch a 'me' anywhere?

No. Fact.

Mona, I would recommend you put aside the meditation with a blindfold and earplugs for now, I would recommend this: sitting and just going through each sense perception "what is seen? What is heard? What do I smell? What sensations are present, and where? What thoughts are arising? And than perhaps noticing the breath for as long as you feel like doing this.

I will do as per your advice.

The absence of 'me' is not absence of sensory input, or total darkness, it's already the case.

You know, the trouble is, I know exactly what you mean. What a catastrophe.

Thanks for everything
Hugs
Mona

Evening Mona,

No, I am thinking that I will be around in some form to witness what happens.

What is the I that will be around to witness something?

the meditation is just me sitting with nothing

"I'm sitting with nothing" is thought commentary or interpretation what's actually happening."Sitting with nothing" is not a direct experience, whereas "sensation in butt and bottom of feet" is a direct experience. Do you see the difference in these two scenarios, can you confirm this? Notice the distinction between what's happening and what thought says is happening, often times what is actually happening thought labels as "boring" or "nothing is happening".

I'd like you to take a minute or two and write down what's happening right now, like this:

Sound of water running
Breathing
Sensation in back
Sensation in stomach
Music from laptop
Sound of typing
Thought about fingers
etc etc.

Now, you said:

As nothing really happens after that

What are you expecting to happen?

Hug,
Wesley

Good Evening Wesley,

What is the I that will be around to witness something?

One that is witnessing the I. Witnessing the thoughts come and go.

"sensation in butt and bottom of feet" is a direct experience

Yes the most honest, immediate experience cannot be described in words but I will try. Even Butt/bottom/feet are labels. The raw sensation is like pockets of buzzing like feeling. They are at the points of contact. It is like some 'noise' in certain parts. They have a fuzzy boundary. Suspended in nowhere. At this moment the body kind of disintegrates into just bits that have a feeling that cannot be explained. I call them buzz pockets.

Ambient sounds - fan whirring, road. Also it is windy outside.
I feel the sensation I described above in some 5 different parts. My wrists on the desk, fingers on the keyboard, back and butt resting on the chair. Feet on the floor.
I have a slight pain in my upper back at this moment. It is the same sensation of a buzz pocket only a bit more agitated, bit more exaggerated.
Feeling a little cold on my toes. Again same buzz pocket but a bit more agitated .

I revisit this innocent way of being from time to time. It brings me back to reality and cuts out any unnecessary thinking. I often meditate upon it. This is more real than anything else. No nonsense, clear.

What are you expecting to happen?

I don't know. But, I fantasise about what bliss would feel like. Some people say they had an out of body experience during meditation. Some say they saw bright lights. Some say they saw beautiful animated coloured geometrical patterns. Others say they felt one with EVERYTHING. I then feel I might be doing something wrong to not have such an experience. So I go back to meditation to try some more. I have chronic upper-back pain. And it is there 24/7. Maybe it is my pain that is not letting me go deep into meditation. One can ignore thoughts, it is very hard to ignore severe pain.

Thanks a bunch,
Hugs
Mona

Hi Mona,

Thanks for your answers.

One that is witnessing the I. Witnessing the thoughts come and go.

-Can you locate this witness within a centimeter?
-Is it somewhere in the body? Is it outside the body?
-From where does it witness thoughts?
-Does it have substance? What is it made of?

Yes the most honest, immediate experience cannot be described in words but I will try.

Nice observation, ultimately "sensation of butt on chair" can be peeled away even more to just "sensation". However for what we're doing this is good enough, the point is to notice what is raw sense information and what is thought content. For example, "I feel so much fear" is thought content, whereas the raw sense information would be "sensation in stomach, thoughts about being feeling fear".

I revisit this innocent way of being from time to time. It brings me back to reality and cuts out any unnecessary thinking. I often meditate upon it. This is more real than anything else. No nonsense, clear.

Great that it brings you back to reality, this is a useful exercise if you feel like continuing to do it from time to time. Just simply note what's happening around you, and it's okay to add some interpretation such as "sound of car". Perhaps after already noting some you can turn your attention to how I/me is experienced.

I don't know. But, I fantasise about what bliss would feel like. Some people say they had an out of body experience during meditation. Some say they saw bright lights. Some say they saw beautiful animated coloured geometrical patterns. Others say they felt one with EVERYTHING. I then feel I might be doing something wrong to not have such an experience. So I go back to meditation to try some more. I have chronic upper-back pain. And it is there 24/7. Maybe it is my pain that is not letting me go deep into meditation. One can ignore thoughts, it is very hard to ignore severe pain.

I feel you about the upper back pain :/ I too have a spot that frequently hurts.

Is fantasizing about bliss a way to avoid every day life? What would happen if you no longer desired bliss and no longer sought after this experience? Does it seem scary, or like life would be meaningless?

Big hug,
Wesley

Hi Wesley, thanks for your reply,

-Can you locate this witness within a centimeter?
-Is it somewhere in the body? Is it outside the body?
-From where does it witness thoughts?
-Does it have substance? What is it made of?

I have looked into this for the past several years. It is not something with any felt boundaries. It is definitely not my body. Because, then I would not say 'My Body' or 'My hand' or 'My feet'. It is also certainly not My Mind for the same reason. I HAVE a body, I therefore cannot be my body. I HAVE a Mind (Thoughts) I therefore cannot be my mind either. This is a fact. No doubt about that.

Yes, although there is no reason to locate it somewhere in the body, it certainly feels that way. I have not been able to feel otherwise. No matter how much I ponder over it. I feel as though whatever it is, it has chosen to operate from a Body/Mind perspective.

All I know is that it witnesses thought, but from where ... The only location as of now is from within the body, especially the head bit. Also it feels that the Thought is witnessed AFTER it has come and gone, not during the Thought. I can only see that I have BEEN thinking. I can sort of know my recent thoughts once they have faded out. Or know there was a chain of thoughts that I entertained.

No it doesn't have any substance. Nothing that I can touch, feel, taste. Nothing solid. It doesn't have a shape. It has no qualities. ALL I know is that it is there. I can deny the reality of this Body, the tangible world as mere Thoughts. But I cannot deny existence. There is a very real feeling of existence, of being. Everything else can be ignored, but not BEINGness.

... the point is to notice what is raw sense information and what is thought content. Perhaps after already noting some you can turn your attention to how I/me is experienced.

Yes. I have not progressed much in my meditation. But, this much I have been able to achieve. Some ability to address the real stuff. Or maybe that is what meditation is. Being true to the immediate reality. Far from being good at it though, but I keep trying.

I too have a spot that frequently hurts.

:(
That is sad. Living with pain sucks monkeyballz with aids. grrr @#%$

Is fantasizing about bliss a way to avoid every day life?

I am very fortunate to have a very nice family. Happiness wise, I am very lucky to be living a good, happy life. We are not wealthy but we love each other and are rarely short of money. So bliss perhaps is not to avoid everyday life. But, I think I want bliss because the idea of bliss is very attractive.

If maybe, deep within, subconsciously, I am trying to avoid everyday life, then it would be because I perhaps find the material world a bit boring and lack lustre compared to a peak experience in meditation (whatever it will be).

What would happen if you no longer desired bliss and no longer sought after this experience?

1. Honestly, I have a feeling I can never stop seeking. I feel too far hooked to chasing that ultimate experience. I no longer want good clothes, or fancy watches or anything of that nature. I just want that experience.

2. But, I have read it in many books that you might get that experience ONLY when you stop chasing it. lol now that is a problem ha ha. And like I said, I don't think I can stop in this life.

Does it seem scary, or like life would be meaningless?

Yes, yes yessss
You took the words right out of my mouth.


Lots of love
Mona

Hi Mona,

I have an exercise for you that I'd like you to try:

So let's say the foot is ‘down there’. Presumably you are above your foot. Where are you? Sit quietly, close your eyes, take a few breaths, locate where you feel yourself to be. Locate yourself vertically in the body, horizontally to the left or right, and depth, how far in. Feel how big you are, where you reside. Then point with a finger to ‘you’. Open your eyes, where is your finger pointing?

I HAVE a body, I therefore cannot be my body. I HAVE a Mind (Thoughts) I therefore cannot be my mind either. This is a fact. No doubt about that.

There is a body, check? There are thoughts, check? There is an I that has these...check? There is witnessing happening, check? There is a witness...Check?

Which of these can be verified by your senses - e.g. you can see/smell/hear/taste or touch the body, hear thoughts, but the I and the witness? What is their raw sensory experience exactly?

Mona, the separate self is much easier to see through than most of us realize, because it's nothing more than a belief, an assumption - which is just a thought. We believe in Santa until we eventually realize there is no proof of the real Santa, and the belief is dropped. Same with the self, it's assumed to exist until we see there is actually no proof, that we never find the real thing, and the belief drops.

We'll look at the bliss/seeking later ;)

Hug,
Wesley

Hi Wesley, thanks for the reply

There is a body, check? There are thoughts, check? There is an I that has these...check? There is witnessing happening, check? There is a witness...Check?

There is witnessing happening, check?

This one feels more appropriate. I cannot locate or find a witness, but witnessing is certainly happening. Wow. So there is no witness and yet witnessing is taking place. I see now. This made me see more clearly. I get it now. omg omg ha ha. Witnessing is happening just like typing is happening. Thank you for helping me see this. But this is amazing. Something happening without a doer. I had read about this. But now I actually know what it means.

omg is it really possible that there is nobody doing anything yet everything is happening. Mind boggling. All this while I thought the separate self is the chain of thoughts and then there is someone watching the chain of thoughts. OMG that was just another silly concept. There is nobody watching. It is all just happening ha ha haaaaa. But what a set up. This is beyond science. All automated yet the automator is missing. Applause.

Thank You thank you thank you I love uuuuuuuuuuu mwah mwah mwah.

Mona, the separate self is much easier to see through than most of us realize, because it's nothing more than a belief,

Aahahahaaa I have read this a million times but now it actually means something. Everything fits in the picture now. Only if I could give you a hug. I want to give a hug to everything.

I will go take a break.

Lots of love
Mona.

Hi Mona,

What a great surprise to read your message today :).

I'm glad that it sounds like something clicked. Why don't you let things settle for a day or so and write when you feel ready and we can continue from there.

Sending a big hug,
Wesley

Hi Wesley, Happy New Year.

Sorry, I was away for a bit.

Why don't you let things settle for a day or so and write when you feel ready and we can continue from there.

It is wonderful. I cannot explain how I feel right now. Some websites have ads on the sides claiming "This woman lost 20 pounds in a week." ha hahahaaaaa I feel I lost ALL my weight since your last post. hahahaaaa. Eat my dust ladies. My personal trainer is called Wesley and he is very patient.

I have been generally looking at the intricacy of things happening. In time and in space. It is making my jaw drop and then sometimes I am lolling like crazy. Waves upon waves of laughter. Everything is hilarious. TV is sooo funny. All the nerdy, heavy duty philosophy words are funny. In fact everything is funny. Religions, atheism, maps, gifts, anger, guns, wealth, rich, poor. EVERYTHING is super hilarious. Because ...

The operating device/mechanism is sooo simple. Some shifting pockets of energy that feel like touch and a broken record of blah blah. So elementary, so basic, so simple. Technically simpler than a music device. Reminds me of the time when we would sneak out of our rooms leaving pillows under the duvet and the shower running so our parents felt we were home. There is nobody here but a prank. It is a prank. And think of all the mega tons of books written about it aaahahaaa.

My head hurts to think how this prank/contraption came to being omg. It is soo funny, soooo simple yet so amazing. Simple because it is touch like sensation and a soundtrack. The most basic thing ever. Amazing because nobody-put-this-together. Mother of all full stops. Sweet saviour of cockroach juice _()_

Wonder if I should laugh at all the literature written about this really simple device. Or if I should just marvel at this beautiful spectacle with limitless complexities. Or can I even call this device simple/basic/rudimentary? How can it be simple when this is working without a maker. Whoa. It more than deserves those mega tons of books. No tribute is good enough.

To think of it this device/contraption is quite complicated. When you deny touch, there is smelling, hearing, seeing. Even when you deny all input and boil it all down there is Thought. What a wonderful thing Thought is. So it is a genius contraption after all. It is not just 3D. It is Infinite D. Salute.

As for chasing the wow experience. Problem was never " I cannot get that experience or I feel fear " the problem was "I" hahahaaaaa.

Thoughts are happening. Mind is throwing very difficult questions. Like "Oh so if there is no doer then why ...." or "Oh so if it is all happening then who ..." or "There has to be a doer because ...." or " I must meditate because, that is the only way to ..."
But who cares. Those are just Thoughts. Thoughts happen. Just like typing happens. Meditation happens. hahahaaa

Sorry about the long essay I just kept typing. Hopefully, you will see where I am at in this moment. This state is too complex for me to describe. So if you did not get some of my illiterate gibberish in this post, don't worry, neither do I.

BTW did I say I love you to bits. Thank You Wesley. Thanks for your patience. Thank you Liberation Unleashed.

Truth is only one. Beliefs are many. I can see that. I see no other change otherwise. To my joy, 'Mona' is not back yet. Thoughts are put in their place. But, if I ever get confused again and stop seeing it as clearly as I do right now, then please don't give up on me if I come back here.

Lots of love
Mona