The Gate

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
that there exist no self.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking for kay to guide me during this journey.
Seeing through the Illusion of an existing self. To be able to see things as they are and letting the life flow as it does.
I hope this will be possible with the guidence and the help of kay. Perhaps I could let the Trouble of the mind behind me.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Seeing through the Illusion of an existing self. To be able to see things as they are and letting the life flow as it does.
I hope this will be possible with the guidence and the help of kay. Perhaps I could let the Trouble of the mind behind me.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
no experience

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?: 11

Hi Brexit,

You have written that you have no experience in spiritual practices, seeking or inquiry? So I am curious to know what got you interested in seeing through the illusory self?

I am willing to assist you in exploring the illusion of the ‘separate self’, however, I can only point the way but you have to see it for yourself. That is why we are described as guides and not teachers. If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Please learn to use the quote function. When replying to a question, please use the quote function to highlight the question being answered. Instructions are located in the link below:

http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

Let's get some other formalities out of the road as well!

Some housekeeping guidelines:-
1. Post at least once a day or every second day. If you cannot post, or need more time, let me know.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. ANSWER ONLY FROM ACTUAL EXPERIENCE (smell, taste, sound, sensation, colour and observed thoughts). Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.

This exploration is based on questions and exercises. I will ask questions as a means of pointing, but the questions aren’t about finding something unknown. The questions refer to what is already actually known. And what is already known? Sound, smell, taste, thought, sensation and colour. So, questions are not answered through thinking/thoughts (theories) but by LOOKING. What is LOOKING?

‘LOOKING’ is just plain looking at what is here right now. It is moving from the conceptual to actual experience (AE). The term “Actual Experience” (AE) is used to refer to experience ‘right now,’ without the thought stories. So, actual experience (AE) is image/colour, sound, smell, sensation, taste and the simple knowing of thought, at face value. What thought says ie, the content of thought is NOT experience. This is evidenced by the fact that you cannot taste the word 'sweet'. So, when looking at actual experience (AE), you are looking at raw experience WITHOUT what thought says ABOUT the raw experience.

To begin with, I would just like to know what your expectations are from having this exploration. So, in your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers about what expectations you have) could you please answer the 5 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?
What would you like to achieve or obtain by this conversation?

Please answer the questions highlighted in blue text individually, and remember to highlight the question being answered by using the quote function.

Love, Kay
xx

You have written that you have no experience in spiritual practices, seeking or inquiry? So I am curious to know what got you interested in seeing through the illusory self?

After I have watched this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoEYBO3rZYI, my interrest in the subject has grown. The women there has had a blog and there she has told about her liberation through liberation unleased.
Now to the formalities and to the housekeeping guidelines:
I will do my best.

How will life change?

Life will be easier to live.

How will you change?

I will be more relaxed and letting go.

What will be different?

All things will be different, including my circumstances.

What is missing?

Calm and peace in my life.

What would you like to achieve or obtain by this conversation?

To get the pointing points to reach the calmness and peace by reacting to all difficulties in my daily activities.

Peace, Brexit

Hello Brexit,

I question your motivation for this exploration. You want all things to be different, including your circumstances. This exploration is not about any of that, it is NOT a self improvement program or a life improvement program. This isn’t a magic wand for a fairytale life where you live happily ever after. This exploration is about seeing through the illusory self and seeing that there never has been a ‘you’ living/having/suffering/ life. Life, may or may not change, but that is how it has always been. What changes is the perception of what life is…but that doesn’t mean everything will be different, including your circumstances. Emotions still appear, poverty still exists, bills still need to be paid, sickness still occurs and so on.

It seems you didn’t read the link I provided about what LU is not. I will post what it says below. Please read it. This exploration can be difficult as there are always expectations of what it should feel like, look like etc…however, the expectation of wanting everything to be different, including your circumstances points to you wanting a magic wand to solve what you consider to be wrong with your life…and this exploration is not for that purpose.

Expectations hinder the LOOKING to seeing through the illusory self, because there is the waiting for something to change to ‘prove’ that the seeing has happened and this just keeps the wheels spinning and is futile. So please read the following, so you are fully aware of what this is not about and that you are here only for the purpose of seeing through the separate self for what it is.

What Liberation Unleashed is not…

Throughout the years our many guides have discovered that one of the major obstacles to the direct, clear seeing of what is already magnificently the case is a thick layer of expectations and narrative about a self’s journey towards enlightenment, built up by years and years of seeking. Getting these expectations out in the open and out of the way is an important first step. Below is a list explaining what the LU process is not:

This is not a way to escape your daily life.
This is not about gaining something extra, becoming something special.
This is not about cultivating an altered state of consciousness.
This isn’t a trick of the mind, or twisting the mind into believing certain thoughts.
This is not about gaining a particular bit of knowledge.
This is not about having a certain thought or sequence of thoughts.
This is not about becoming a holy, good, moral or better person.
This is not a belief, religion, or a philosophy, it not magical or mystical.
This is not going to lead you to eternal peace and happiness, it is not about happiness.
This is not about freedom from emotions and intense feelings.
This is not about getting rid of self, ego, I.
This is not a solution to problems in relationships.
This is not a way to get free of depression or other diseases.
This is not about stopping thoughts, changing thoughts, getting rid of thoughts.
This is not a way to make the story of you disappear.
This is not about convincing you of anything.
This is not something that will lead to accumulation of money or things.
This is not a self improvement program.

Love, Kay
xx

I question your motivation for this exploration. You want all things to be different, including your circumstances. This exploration is not about any of that, it is NOT a self improvement program or a life improvement program. This isn’t a magic wand for a fairytale life where you live happily ever after. This exploration is about seeing through the illusory self and seeing that there never has been a ‘you’ living/having/suffering/ life. Life, may or may not change, but that is how it has always been. What changes is the perception of what life is…but that doesn’t mean everything will be different, including your circumstances. Emotions still appear, poverty still exists, bills still need to be paid, sickness still occurs and so on.

It seems you didn’t read the link I provided about what LU is not. I will post what it says below. Please read it. This exploration can be difficult as there are always expectations of what it should feel like, look like etc…however, the expectation of wanting everything to be different, including your circumstances points to you wanting a magic wand to solve what you consider to be wrong with your life…and this exploration is not for that purpose.

Expectations hinder the LOOKING to seeing through the illusory self, because there is the waiting for something to change to ‘prove’ that the seeing has happened and this just keeps the wheels spinning and is futile. So please read the following, so you are fully aware of what this is not about and that you are here only for the purpose of seeing through the separate self for what it is.

Hello Kay,
I ensure you that I have read the link you provided about what LU.
But you also asked me at the beginning to be 100% honest.
I did not want to tell you a fairy tale. I am clearly on this journey to achieve something. In fact to recognize the difference between reality and imagination. and especially to see through the illusory self and to see that there never has been a ‘me’ living/having/suffering/ life.
Peace, Brexit

Hello Brexit,

I ensure you that I have read the link you provided about what LU.
But you also asked me at the beginning to be 100% honest.
I did not want to tell you a fairy tale. I am clearly on this journey to achieve something. In fact to recognize the difference between reality and imagination. and especially to see through the illusory self and to see that there never has been a ‘me’ living/having/suffering/ life.

Okay great and yes, thank you for your honesty. So everything is clear about what LU is not and we are both aware of what expectations there are. And yes, this exploration is to see that suffering is not happening to anyone, but that doesn’t mean that suffering still doesn’t seemingly appear.

Let’s continue that with the other questions you answered.

How will life change?

Life will be easier to live.

There is no one/no thing that is living a life; therefore life may or may not change, but there is no one/no thing that is controlling life. Perception changes on what life actually is, but life continues to flow as it always has.

How will you change?

I will be more relaxed and letting go.

What exactly are you wanting to let go of?

What will be different?

All things will be different, including my circumstances.

There has never been a separate self. When you realised that Santa wasn’t real…did life change? Santa still appeared, Christmas comes and goes, but the belief in Santa fell away and there is a knowing that Santa is just a story.

What is missing?

Calm and peace in my life.

It is impossible for anything to be missing. There are thoughts about something being missing, including calm and peace, however thoughts know nothing as they are not aware of anything!

What would you like to achieve or obtain by this conversation?

To get the pointing points to reach the calmness and peace by reacting to all difficulties in my daily activities.

Calm and peace come and go just like all appearances, however, there is no one that is calm, peaceful, upset, angry, happy, sad etc. What is actually appearing is sound, thought, smell, taste, sensation and colour aka raw experience, which thought overlays with stories. This will come to light as we proceed.



Have a look at an apple. When ‘looking at an apple’, there's colour; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."
What is known for sure? Colour is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?
Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought. Actual experience is sound, thought, colour, smell, taste, sensation.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by ‘looking in actual experience ‘. What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Throughout this exploration, whatever is highlighted in blue text is what I would like answered, please answer each question individually and remember to use the quote function to highlight each question being answered.

Love, Kay
xx

Hallo Kay,

What exactly are you wanting to let go of?

To let the life flow without resistance.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

If we motion the process of looking at the apple in tiny bits, we than not find an apple in actual experience, but only color and a thought about apple.

Peace, Brexit

Hey Brexit,

What exactly are you wanting to let go

of?

To let the life flow without resistance.

Actual experience (AE), ie thought, sound, colour, smell, taste and sensation appear without control, so it is impossible to resist what already is. Thought stories appear about resisting; and sensations appear which thought labels as resistance, but there is no one who is resisting the flow of life.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

If we motion the process of looking at the apple in tiny bits, we than not find an apple in actual experience, but only color and a thought about apple.

Great, so let’s continue looking at actual experience.

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label each experience simply colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/colour
Smelling coffee, simply = smell,
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation.
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought.

Just break down all experiences into these categories (which are all actual experience) and report back how you go.

Love, Kay
xx

Hello Kay,

Just break down all experiences into these categories (which are all actual experience) and report back how you go.

The breaking down of all experiences into these categeories makes them unsusal and artificial at the same time. There are also the stories that always accompanied the experiences. To give them a sort of meanings.
Peace, Brexit

Hello Brexit,

The breaking down of all experiences into these categeories makes them unsusal and artificial at the same time. There are also the stories that always accompanied the experiences. To give them a sort of meanings.

Can you explain further to what you mean when you say they are artificial?

Yes, thought is a non-stop, never ending commentator/narrator. The point of the exercise was for you to start to notice and to continue to notice what actually is ie actual experience, and how thought imposes a story on/about actual experience. This distinction helps with our exploration. Thought either points to AE or it points to further thought. Actual experience is everything, except the "content" of thought, because thought, in and of itself does not contain any experience.

So, let's have a look at thought.

Here is a thought exercise. Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear, without you doing anything at all.

- Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
- Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
- Where are they coming from and going to?
- Can you predict your next thought?
- Can you push away any thought?
- Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
- Can you stop thinking a thought in the middle?
- Can you choose not to have painful or negative thoughts?
- Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
- Is it possible to control any thoughts?
- Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing? Including the thought 'I'?
- It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?

Look carefully when doing this exercise and do it several times if necessary. Please answer each question individually.

Love, Kay
xx

Hello Kay,

Can you explain further to what you mean when you say they are artificial?

They are artificial to me, the “me” that is making the show here.

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

No, I do nothing to make a particular thought or thoughts appear.

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

No, I couldn’t have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead.

Where are they coming from and going to?

I don’t know where thoughts are coming from and going to.

Can you predict your next thought?

No, I cannot predict my next thought.

Can you push away any thought?

That well be great, But the answer is No, I cannot push away any thought.

Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?

That well be great, But the answer is No, I cannot select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts.

Hi,

Can you explain further to what you mean when you say they are artificial?

They are artificial to me, the “me” that is making the show here.

How exactly is sound, colour, taste, smell, thought and sensation artificial?

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing? Including the thought 'I'?

No, it is not possible to prevent a thought from appearing.
The 'I' is not a thought, but a lived reality.

Where in actual experience ie sound, thought, smell, taste, sensation, colour does an “I” live exactly?

When the thought “I like the colour blue” appears…is that not a thought?
Where is the supposed “real I” in that thought?
Did you choose to have that thought?
And if you did choose it…how did think it and choose it. What process did you use to think it and choose it?

The label/thought “I” is the actual experience (AE) of thought and not the AE of an “I”
The thoughts ABOUT an “I” are the AE of thought and not the AE of an “I”
The sensation labelled “I” is the AE of sensation and not the AE of an “I”
The image labelled “I” is the AE of colour and not the AE of an “I”

So what is actually appearing (ie actual experience) is label + sensation + colour + thoughts about an “I”. Can a “real I” be found?

Thought says that the foot is ‘down there’. So presumably you are above your foot. Where are you? Sit quietly, close your eyes, take a few breaths and locate where you feel yourself to be. Locate yourself vertically in the body, horizontally to the left or right, and depth, how far in. Feel how big you are, where you reside. Then point with a finger to ‘you’. Open your eyes, where is your finger pointing?

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?

If I look carefully, I notice that sometimes thoughts have some logical ordered appearance and other times not. If a thought about a certain thing is there, then follow other thoughts which fit this thing.

If there is no predictability to what thoughts appear and there is no choice in what thoughts appear, how is it known that some thoughts are sequential and other thoughts are not? It seems as if some thoughts are ordered and sequential, but how is that known? There is an assumption that it would be…but what exactly is an assumption?

Love, Kay
xx

Hello Kay,

How exactly is sound, colour, taste, smell, thought and sensation artificial?

Essentially they are not, I give them this flavor.

Where in actual experience ie sound, thought, smell, taste, sensation, colour does an “I” live exactly?

The I is who noticed sound, thought, smell, taste, sensation, color are and recognizes the difference between them.

When the thought “I like the colour blue” appears…is that not a thought?

Yes, it is a thought expressing how I experience the color blue.

Where is the supposed “real I” in that thought?

It is the one to whom this has happened. The one who has recoginised this thought.

Did you choose to have that thought?

No, I did not choose to have it. It just appeared to me.

And if you did choose it…how did think it and choose it. What process did you use to think it and choose it?

No, I did not think it and choose it.

So what is actually appearing (ie actual experience) is label + sensation + colour + thoughts about an “I”. Can a “real I” be found?

Being impossible not to be, being impossible to be in another time. The I is always here.

Thought says that the foot is ‘down there’. So presumably you are above your foot. Where are you? Sit quietly, close your eyes, take a few breaths and locate where you feel yourself to be. Locate yourself vertically in the body, horizontally to the left or right, and depth, how far in. Feel how big you are, where you reside. Then point with a finger to ‘you’. Open your eyes, where is your finger pointing?

The place above my head.

If there is no predictability to what thoughts appear and there is no choice in what thoughts appear, how is it known that some thoughts are sequential and other thoughts are not? It seems as if some thoughts are ordered and sequential, but how is that known? There is an assumption that it would be…but what exactly is an assumption?

That is the mystery about it. i.e. there is a thought or some worries about the future that appear, and then this one attract a logical thought sequence about the same subject. I have not choose it or think it, but the thought is at once there and the consequence follows with similar thoughts.

Peace, Brexit

You have not LOOKED with any of the questions that I posed. You have just answered from what you think you know and not from actual experience. Thinking is not the right tool to use here, as it is thought that overlays raw experience with stories which ‘create’ the concept of there being a separate self who is living a life. So to see through this concept, LOOKING is the key. I have reposted what I wrote in the introductory post about what this exploration is and what LOOKING is.

This exploration is based on questions and exercises. I will ask questions as a means of pointing, but the questions aren’t about finding something unknown. The questions refer to what is already actually known. And what is already known? Sound, smell, taste, thought, sensation and colour. So, questions are not answered through thinking/thoughts (theories) but by LOOKING. What is LOOKING?

‘LOOKING’ is just plain looking at what is here right now. It is moving from the conceptual to actual experience (AE). The term “Actual Experience” (AE) is used to refer to experience ‘right now,’ without the thought stories. So, actual experience (AE) is image/colour, sound, smell, sensation, taste and the simple knowing of thought, at face value. What thought says ie, the content of thought is NOT experience. This is evidenced by the fact that you cannot taste the word 'sweet'. So, when looking at actual experience (AE), you are looking at raw experience WITHOUT what thought says ABOUT the raw experience.

Where in actual experience ie sound, thought, smell, taste, sensation, colour does an “I” live exactly?

The I is who noticed sound, thought, smell, taste, sensation, color are and recognizes the difference between them.

Please read the question again and then respond from LOOKING at actual experience and not from thinking.

Does colour know anything about an "I"?
Does sound know anything about an "I"?
Does taste know anything about an "I"?
Does smell know anything about an "I"?
Does sensation know anything about an "I"?
Does thought know anything about an "I"?

Where in colour, sound, taste, smell, sensation and thought is there an "I"? There are thoughts ABOUT an “I”, but they are AE of thought and not the AE of an “I”. So where in actual experience can an “I” be found?

So what is actually appearing (ie actual experience) is label + sensation + colour + thoughts about an “I”. Can a “real I” be found?

Being impossible not to be, being impossible to be in another time. The I is always here.

I gave you a breakdown of what the AE of an “I” is. Did you even LOOK to see the mechanisms of that breakdown to see for yourself or did you just read it and then just answer with what you think you already know? If that is all you did, we aren’t going to get far in this exploration.

Where in the label, sensation, colour and thought can an “I” be found exactly?

Thought says that the foot is ‘down there’. So presumably you are above your foot. Where are you? Sit quietly, close your eyes, take a few breaths and locate where you feel yourself to be. Locate yourself vertically in the body, horizontally to the left or right, and depth, how far in. Feel how big you are, where you reside. Then point with a finger to ‘you’. Open your eyes, where is your finger pointing?

The place above my head.

Really? Above the head? So tell me, how does that “I” above the head feel like and what exactly does it look like?

If there is no predictability to what thoughts appear and there is no choice in what thoughts appear, how is it known that some thoughts are sequential and other thoughts are not? It seems as if some thoughts are ordered and sequential, but how is that known? There is an assumption that it would be…but what exactly is an assumption?

That is the mystery about it. i.e. there is a thought or some worries about the future that appear, and then this one attract a logical thought sequence about the same subject. I have not choose it or think it, but the thought is at once there and the consequence follows with similar thoughts.

How are these “logical thoughts” attracted to you? And where are these logical thoughts stored? And please don’t say it’s a mystery. What IS, ie actual experience is always here, so there is nothing unknown.

And what is an assumption? And please don’t give me a definition of what an assumption is. In AE what is an assumption?

Love, Kay
xx