The Gate

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That there is no leader or manager that is making things happen. There is nothing inside me that is able to control thoughts, ideas, emotions, experiences. There is this body and mind that has experiences and thoughts that guide some actions. They are two different things doing their jobs and to recognize that is a recognition that there is no 'I'

What are you looking for at LU?
Not exactly sure. There is a thought or an expectation that 'I' should be able to stay in this recognition of mind and body and let things or experiences just happen and be. I would like to communicate with someone about some of the expectations that are there and help me realize that they are just expectations and not real.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
A person that can listen and guide me back onto the track of 'seeing' that there is no self that is the manager. My mind lets the fog of an 'I' creep in and there is a feeling that a guide can adjust me back into an ability to see what is really there. I feel as though I am close to seeing what is real and maybe I already do and it is just an expectation that there is something a little bit more that I need........or maybe there isn't and everything is just as it is right now.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have read, and thought, and thought it seems most of my life to figure out who 'I' am and who 'I' want to be. I am tired of trying to be what 'I' thinks 'I' should be. After studying the material on this website, reading the book, watching the videos it all gives a sense that I can see something here. That maybe I always have and just haven't allowed myself to let it be.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

Hi Kohl, if that's your real name. If it's not, you may like to tell me now or at some stage. It's fine either way. My name is Lawrence and it is my legal label.

Ok. Let's look at this.
Looking generally at what you have written, I see that you are lost in conceptualisation. This is the journey of Direct Looking, and this will guid you past that mind-trap. If you wish me to be your guide, I am happy to point you.

There are two promises, though, that you must not break, unless there is a specific difficulty. You must respond every day and I will endeavour to do so. It is important to respond like this so as to move the process easily.

So, if you are happy to do this and happy for me to guide just say so.

Love and Light
Lawrence

I agree to post daily and am glad you are offering to be my guide.

Great Kohl, let's go.
Just before I start , if you have any difficulty using the quotation method, just say.

There is this body and mind that has experiences and thoughts that guide some actions.

Give me an example of how a thought guide actions ?

There is a thought or an expectation that 'I' should be able to stay in this recognition of mind and body and let things or experiences just happen and be

There is no controller and thus no "i" to let experiences just happen, so this is just a thought. What is your response to this? I do not mean jerk-response. Full considered response.

I feel as though I am close to seeing what is real and maybe I already do and it is just an expectation that there is something a little bit more that I need........or maybe there isn't and everything is just as it is right now.

I think all you may just need is a little help. We shall see

That maybe I always have and just haven't allowed myself to let it be.

Everyone sees. You just need to get out of the way and

let it be

Looking forward to your response
Blessings
Lawrence

Give me an example of how a thought guide actions ?

A thought is a product of the mind. It guides actions of the body by forming expectations or assumptions of a result if the thought is acted on. An example would be that a thought that the body is out of shape and lazy but that could be changed by exercise daily has a tied expectation of an experience that the body has more energy and can be more active as a result of the exercise. A person would then perform actions that try and materialize the expected result of the thought. The real result may exceed, meet, or not meet the original expectation but the thought guided actions to try and reach an expected result.

There is no controller and thus no "i" to let experiences just happen, so this is just a thought. What is your response to this? I do not mean jerk-response. Full considered response.

After much "thought" about how to respond to this I need to ask a question. What is the difference between a thought and a decision? There are lots of thoughts in my mind but only some develop into an action because a decision was made to act in some way. Is there really no decision happening at all?

Hello Kohl

A thought is a product of the mind. It guides actions of the body by forming expectations or assumptions of a result if the thought is acted on.

I assume you are sitting in front of the computer, Notice your fingers are writing. Notice your feet are in a certain position. Be aware of your eyes moving along the screen. You did not make a decision to perform any of these actions, did you? The body moved into the correct formation without any thought, There may be an intent to make any decision. This is just a thought. Look closely. Don't overthink this-just watch. Spend the day just performing all your physical actions. Do you say." I am going to put my hand like this or like that to eat food ? " "Do I walk down the street saying I am going to put one foot in front of the other." So there may be a thought about an intent. They are just thoughts. Watch the action when you perform a physical piece of exercise, where you say there is an intent. However close you perform the task between thought and action, the movement itself is just happening. Even if you seem to by saying " I am going to touch the nose with my hand ", the hand actually moves without thought.Notice when you think about this, it is just a thought about a thought.
Tell me what comes up for you.

There is no controller and thus no "i" to let experiences just happen, so this is just a thought. What is your response to this? I do not mean jerk-response. Full considered response

.
After much "thought" about how to respond to this I need to ask a question. What is the difference between a thought and a decision? There are lots of thoughts in my mind but only some develop into an action because a decision was made to act in some way. Is there really no decision happening at all?

A thought is a thought. As can be seen from the response above. All your "mind" does is bring forth thought. So when you ask what the difference is, doesn't it become obvious for you ? A decision seems to be a "type" of thought but is just simply, "a thought.". Again notice this is a thought about a thought.
What comes up for you with this.

Blessings
Lawrence

I assume you are sitting in front of the computer, Notice your fingers are writing. Notice your feet are in a certain position. Be aware of your eyes moving along the screen. You did not make a decision to perform any of these actions, did you? The body moved into the correct formation without any thought, There may be an intent to make any decision. This is just a thought. Look closely. Don't overthink this-just watch. Spend the day just performing all your physical actions. Do you say." I am going to put my hand like this or like that to eat food ? " "Do I walk down the street saying I am going to put one foot in front of the other." So there may be a thought about an intent. They are just thoughts. Watch the action when you perform a physical piece of exercise, where you say there is an intent. However close you perform the task between thought and action, the movement itself is just happening. Even if you seem to by saying " I am going to touch the nose with my hand ", the hand actually moves without thought. Notice when you think about this, it is just a thought about a thought.
Tell me what comes up for you.

Today there were hundreds maybe thousands of things that my body just did without a thought having to drive it. From simply breathing to driving to work. I can see that decisions, assumptions, and opinions are types of thoughts. Its all thoughts. Tonight in reflection of this I am think a lot about "free will". If decisions are just thoughts about thoughts than is there nothing but thoughts? When I awoke this morning there was a thought that its Wednesday, a work day, I should get up and get ready for work. Did I really decide that? I could have decided to stay in bed all day instead......or could have I. I could have had that thought but what I saw myself doing was going to work. Maybe there is no free will to make decisions. Maybe I went to work today because that is what it was....not 'me' deciding but what was going to be. Maybe everything I just typed was nothing more than a bunch of thoughts.....and what is right now is me having thoughts and typing, hearing sounds, seeing words, sitting in a chair......

A thought is a thought. As can be seen from the response above. All your "mind" does is bring forth thought. So when you ask what the difference is, doesn't it become obvious for you ? A decision seems to be a "type" of thought but is just simply, "a thought.". Again notice this is a thought about a thought.
What comes up for you with this.

Its all thoughts, no control over anything. I can have a thought that I decided to go to work today, like that was me controlling that, but it just happened because it happened. Everything just is what it is.

Hi Kohl

ts all thoughts, no control over anything. I can have a thought that I decided to go to work today, like that was me controlling that, but it just happened because it happened. Everything just is what it is.

Ok this is great. carry on looking at your experience today. Keep doing everything and Look. When I say Look, Imean if I asked what an apple was like you could describe it from memory or go get an apple and tell me what you see. You have already done this but only about the physical acts I want you to Look at what you are thinking; the same as it it was a physical thing. Tell me what this FEELS like inside to know

"everything is just what it is "

, because that means there is no-one controlling anything.
Blessings
Lawrence

Just to be clear . I don't want you to describe from memory, because this is thinking and thinking will not guide you. I want you to describe what you see when you Look now.

I want you to Look at what you are thinking; the same as it it was a physical thing. Tell me what this FEELS like inside to know

"everything is just what it is "

,

I looked today.....didn't 'see' anything. Little strange when I really tried to see a thought for some reason I turned my head to look behind me. Don't know why.....nothing there behind me...surprise! When I couldn't see the thought it felt inside like it wasn't really anything. Yes it was a thought in the mind but nothing more so I didn't really dwell on the thought it just kind of passed by then another entered and passed by.

I noticed at one point today a particular thought was starting to bother me. Then I looked for it as you asked and it seemed to float by, seemed silly that there was this feeling of nervousness or being uncomfortable from something that was not really there just something made up in my mind (a thought).

Hi Kohl

At this point, it is necessary that I comment. You neither greet nor acknowledge me. This is fine from this viewpoint. Clear Seeing does not need gratitude. The joy comes with the giving. However, for you, if you just take and not give, you may "see through self", but you will never know the Love that Pure Seeing is. Douglas Harding said you could be a Nazi and see through self. So what value will it be if you don't live from the Love of what this is? What you give is what you receive. This is the fundamental that lies beneath True Seeing. However don't do anything to please me, it is just about that which is. It is your experience.
OK Onward

I looked today.....didn't 'see' anything. Little strange when I really tried to see a thought for some reason I turned my head to look behind me. Don't know why.....nothing there behind me...surprise! When I couldn't see the thought it felt inside like it wasn't really anything

This is your first hint of what is Seeing, yet you tried to catch it. That which is "behind you"does the Seeing. You cannot watch it. It does the watching.

Yes it was a thought in the mind but nothing more so I didn't really dwell on the thought it just kind of passed by then another entered and passed by.

You tried examining "the mind" . How can "mind" know what "mind" is doing. It cannot examine itself. It cannot look at itself, so you conceptualize and rationalize what is happening. You acknowledge there is no "I", no controller, nor ego, yet you say you know what is happening and toss the gift away in a moment. Why is this happening ? This is the "I" knowing it has been found out as false and it trying to control, take the reins back and it has done so. Tripped in the moment of Seeing.

I noticed at one point today a particular thought was starting to bother me. Then I looked for it as you asked and it seemed to float by,

Great. Now there is just watching again. Go there again. This time, relax into the watching. Notice this watching, this type of Looking just does exactly that. When you come from that Space all is quiet inside. Don't think it. Just watch. fall into its grace. Don't start thinking and falling into this stuff below.

seemed silly that there was this feeling of nervousness or being uncomfortable from something that was not really there just something made up in my mind (a thought).

because all this happens when you start to think. The "I" wants to take charge and it does so. That

uncomfortable feeling that is not really there

is exactly what is happening. It is the that false "I" trying to undermine. Yet you have the knowing it is not real. You describe it happening

at one point during the day

. So you moved on from the whole experience and ran away. Watch that nervousness. Look directly at it . Notice the nervousness subside the more you Look directly at it. If you let thought arise , thought will take over and push it all away. You know there is no controller, conceptually. When you JUST LOOK you will feel the watching , the DIRECT LOOKING just flowing outwards.
This should be an all day process. Do it whenever you can. Watch/Look. Write down your FEELINGS as you do this. NOT YOUR THINKING ON WHAT YOU BELIEVE IS HAPPENING.

I hope I have made myself clear
Blessings
Lawrence

Good evening Lawrence

Today was an interesting day. I read your response this morning and reflected on your words today.

I relaxed into watching today over some time at home over lunch and during this evening. What I felt was lightness and hyper senses. In the silence of the room hearing ringing in the ears, looking around the room, feeling the sensations of laying on the couch, noticing thoughts come shortly after the experience of feeling something in my body or seeing something outside the window. For a short time (I think short time) I am not sure what happened....it felt like I fell asleep but I didn't sleep. When I "caught myself" I thought what was that.....where did I go?

Shortly later I had a feeling like I lost something. Kind of like the feeling one gets when you misplace car keys or cant find your wallet. Not exactly the same by reminded me of that feeling. I am not sure what that was or what I felt like I was missing and not sure why I felt that I should tell you this.

During the time I fell into watching there was feelings in the body and feelings in the mind. It was like there was two independent things doing their own things.

Looking forward to your comments. Thank you.

Kohl

Good morning Kohl

I read a sense of relaxation emanating from you. However, I would like to know deeper what you are experiencing in your body when you express yourself. What are the sensations that come into the body when you start Looking ?
OK. It's the weekend. I have a lot of work for you to do over the next two days. I would like you to respond over the next two days, without me commenting. So I will not reply today. If you can give it full commitment, you will make a great leap forward. Let's see how it goes. It's your journey

You seem to know now that there is no controller and to be experiencing this on and off.

Shortly later I had a feeling like I lost something.

This sensation will come and go as everything does, just like a thought. Just watch it all.
Now I want to prove to you once and for all that you do not control anything. If you have any control whatsoever, tell me what your next thought is going to be. No ? Can't do it? Notice this is a thought about a thought. It is just happening. Also if you could control a thought why don't you just make yourself happy ? Or just make yourself think what you want to think about. No. You can't do it. Thoughts just come and go. Notice again this is just a thought about a thought. There is no YOU doing it.
As there is no controller there is no YOU to do anything. What evidence is there that YOU are here at all ?
What do you FEEL when you know this ? Where do you feel it? DONT THINK...LOOK
What rises in you to actually KNOW you are not here ?

Look around you. Is anything there at all?
Notice that where you look " mind" tries to label things. Car, tree road, sofa, computer. These are labels given to you as you grew up.
When you just Look notice all there are are shape form and colour and/or movement. Just like a child without given names everything just " IS."
Watch it all.

There is inhabiting this body.
It is not separate from anything. What do I mean?
Try this as one action
Your sitting in a chair. Close you eyes for a minute and just notice sensations. Don't think,LOOK. There are just sensations going on. Is there a You seperate from anything at all. All that is felt are sensations. Are they inside or outside the body. Then Clasp one hand into a fist. Is that fist actually YOU or does it feel "somewhere out there" ?
When your eyes are open or closed. Consider this. You need to breath to live. You need trees to make air. So you are not separate from tree or air. Notice now how everything is connected. Even this conversation. How can we be seperate ? Everything and everyone needs everything and everyone just to BE.
Look across the room. Consider. Is there any seperation between you and what you are looking at, any separation between the eyes, the air and the wall ?
Is there actually any distance or is it just the"mind" labeling distance ?

When you have done all this. This will be the next expression. The big one.

Go back into the Deep Looking that you did yesterday. Take your time. Enjoy. It is pure enjoyment isnt it ? Just relax and feel it. You have been doing this. Nothing new. Remember DONT THINK. Go there and then read the next passage
Consider this. Isn't this Looking and Watching) quiet, peaceful, without emotion. DONT THINK ABOUT IT . DONT CHASE IT. Just relax DONT THINK. Hasn't this always been there since you can first remember ? Never changing ? Since you were a child. Watching what has happened. Never growing older. Always the same no matter how your body changed.No matter what sadness, joy . This watching in PEACE without emotion
Tell me what comes up for you. Tell me what is happening. Take your time.

Love
Lawrence

Hi Kohl
i was expecting an ongoing response from you on what you were experiencing (feeling) in the moment, so as to know what is being experienced to know where to move next, Sorry if I did not make that clear.
Blessings
Lawrence

Hi Lawrence, apologize that I didn't realize you wanted posts over the 2 days but I have been keeping hand written notes. I will post my notes soon that covers the experiences of the last 2 days.

Thanks

Kohl