The Gate

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?:
I am looking for all the help I can to be self-realized.

What are you looking for? What do you expect from this?:
I would like to become self-realized (enlightened)

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?:
I am seeking since I was a kid, but without knowing after my father passed away when I was 16. I searched a lot in Christianity but I always perceived something was wrong. I forced myself to believe in the traditional belief of Christ and I had an epiphany. But I didn't feel complete anyway, it was just an experience. So I continued searched so hard with my mind and intellect that I almost went crazy. I didn't mind anything, I wanted the truth. I was in the hospital like one month and now I am under therapy but I feel really good. I began to practice meditation, I understood that enlightenment comes from a revelation, not by our mind. So now I am mostly trying to focus on the energy of life that we have inside, trying to make that a guide, trying to listen to it more and more. Recently I began to get very interested in Zen and Advaita. I am reading The Zen of Advaita – The Teaching Mastery of Nisargadatta Maharaj.

How ready are you to question your beliefs about who you are and see the truth no matter what? On a scale from one to ten (ten being most ready). : 10

Hello everyone,

I had realized about a lot of things that are mentioned here in the forum, like there's no self, only experiencing, I just learned how to separate myself from the thoughts. My fears are disappearing more and more, but I still somehow can't see through the veil of the illusion.

I still see myself as separated, etc. I seem to logically understand a lot of things (maybe some labeling is wrong, I am learning all by myself) about self realization, but it seems that something more is needed to cross the gate.

Any suggestion???

Thanks

P.S.: I didn't find the thread the first time and I created a new one, you can delete if you want. Sorry!
:-P

Hi Abrakamowse,

Seems you already did a long journey!

If you want I can be your guide.
My name is Peter, how shall I call you?
I am living in the Netherlands, so my native speach is Dutch. What about you?

>but it seems that something more is needed to cross the gate.

What are your expectations about how it will be cross-gate?

Regards, Peter

Hi Peter,

you can call me Daniel. I am from Montevideo, Uruguay - South America but I am actually living in New Jersey and working in New York. My native language is Spanish, but I like to write in English.

I would be very pleased if you can be my guide, thanks! I appreciate it.

Actually I am working on surrender completely and accepting everything as is.
And trying not to have expectations. But there's always some kind of idea of how it will be.

So, I think that crossing the gate will be like a shift in perspective that will allow me to know better myself and others.
I am going to a Zen meditation Center since 3 weeks ago to try to quiet my mind, and really I want it (self-realization) but I don't know well why. Hehehehe... I think I am tired of that kind of "fight" between my selfish part of me "against" that other voice in my head that tells me to be more compassionate or understanding. I think if I know who I am, I will just act the way I am suppose to act, without so much thinking.

But I also feel that it's not even about that, and any idea that I have it won't be what I am thinking it will be.

Sounds complicated, right??? hehehehe

Hi Daniel,

Good to have you here!

Sounds complicated, right???

Mind always sounds complicated. Life isnt.

I think I am tired of that kind of "fight" between my selfish part of me "against" that other voice in my head that tells me to be more compassionate or understanding.

So there are 2 of you, right?

"abrakamowse"

What is the meaning of "abrakamowse"?
I googled it and saw there are some more abrakamowse active on some other forums. Or is that you too?

I am working on surrender

What are you practising to do so?

Regards, Petrus

Mind always sounds complicated. Life isnt.

Yeah, very true.

So there are 2 of you, right?

Sometimes more Lol

What is the meaning of "abrakamowse"?

I created with help of other friends in chats. I was using as nickname my first name, DanielNewJersey. Together with the state Im living. And someone suggested me to change my name to Abracadaniel, which is a name of a character from Great Adventure, the animated Cartoon. Because I like comics I thought it was a good idea and I changed my nickname, I changed the c for k to make it sound weirder.

And mouse comes because I was always mentioning the book "Who Moved My Cheese". So everyone began to call me mouse too. So it sounded good both together, and the w come because an user called me mowse and I liked it.

I googled it and saw there are some more abrakamowse active on some other forums. Or is that you too?

Yeah, that's me. Now I use it mostly on "spiritual or self-help" forums, you will see my nickname on several of them. I am on actualized.org (he was the first one to introduce me to the no-self concept), then in the Jed McKenna forum, I am reading one of his books and I like what he says. And this forum now.

And there's also an imgur account, that was in my times where I liked to change politics, hehehe... now I am not into that anymore.
:-P

I am working on surrender

What are you practising to do so?

[/quote]

What I am doing in accepting everything, trying to see the positive side of anything I am experiencing. Not fighting the experiences, or getting depressed when things don't go the way I want. I just accept that fact and I think in creative ways to change the situation, but not by getting angry, depressed or feeling that there was some kind of unfairness in what happened. If it happened I have to see what's the thing the universe wants to teach me. And try to correct it to change.

I took a definition from a website that I think define my thinking about surrendering.

"Surrender = Complete acceptance of what is + Faith that all is well, even without my input. "

Regards, Petrus

Thanks Peter, I really like your questions and the process. It's exciting.
:-P

And someone suggested me to change my name to Abracadaniel, which is a name of a character from Great Adventure

Sorry, my bad. Great Adventure is the name of a close theme park, the name of the animated cartoon is "Adventure Time"

Daniel

Hi Daniel,

Time to go to bed here... but I saw your response... I cannot wait:

What I am doing in accepting everything, trying to see the positive side of anything I am experiencing. Not fighting the experiences, or getting depressed when things don't go the way I want.

How are you doing all that?
Or more accurate: Is there really someone doing that?

I just accept that fact

Isnt that a thought only? Or is there really someone/something that can accomplish such a thing as accepting facts?

and I think in creative ways to change the situation

Is there really a "you" that is thinking?
Or isnt it just thoughts passing by?

Warm regards, Petrus

Time to go to bed here... but I saw your response... I cannot wait:

Good night!!!
:-)

What I am doing in accepting everything, trying to see the positive side of anything I am experiencing. Not fighting the experiences, or getting depressed when things don't go the way I want.

How are you doing all that?
Or more accurate: Is there really someone doing that?

I feel that it's not my identity doing it. But I feel my true self or core self is doing it.

I just accept that fact

Isnt that a thought only? Or is there really someone/something that can accomplish such a thing as accepting facts?

Right now I feel like something bigger than me is doing it, and I (false ego-identity) doesn't understand.

and I think in creative ways to change the situation

Is there really a "you" that is thinking?
Or isnt it just thoughts passing by?

That "I" understand, thoughts are passing by and my false ego gets attached to them.

Warm regards, Petrus

Same to you Petrus,

Daniel

Hi Daniel,

I feel that it's not my identity doing it.

Feelings are experiences passing by just as thoughts. (In this case I even wonder if it isnt just a thought you mention.)
If you feel (or think): "that is not my identity doing it", is that true? Or isnt that just a mental image that is trying to assign meaning to a experience?

But I feel my true self or core self is doing it.

You are introducing a "true self" here. So there really are 2 of you as I assumed in former post, haha?
And your true self is the director, because he "is doing it"!
This "true self" where does it live? Does it has a shape?

and I (false ego-identity) doesn't understand.

I think this is a good moment to stop all ideas and concepts you heard of and really start looking yourself.
You are talking about true selves and false ego identies as if they are real, but in fact I think you have heared somebody talking about that and are repeating it.

Can you read this: http://liberationunleashed.com/articles ... xperience/ and after that answer this question:
In your Direct Experience is there an actual separate self?
So answer from your own experience, not from what you know or heard of.

Warm regards, Petrus

Feelings are experiences passing by just as thoughts. (In this case I even wonder if it isnt just a thought you mention.)
If you feel (or think): "that is not my identity doing it", is that true? Or isnt that just a mental image that is trying to assign meaning to a experience?

True, it's a mental image. You are right.

I was very religious sometime ago, I read a lot of about Jesus, and I think that was becoming a problem to me not to "see" there's no self.
After answering your question a thought about something Jesus said came to the mind (not my mind)

"Deny yourself"

You are introducing a "true self" here. So there really are 2 of you as I assumed in former post, haha?
And your true self is the director, because he "is doing it"!
This "true self" where does it live? Does it has a shape?

The idea I had was that the ego is really your self, but in an state like not so spiritualy mature? Or something like that.
But I have to say that it makes more sense to think of it as thoughts.

I think this is a good moment to stop all ideas and concepts you heard of and really start looking yourself.
You are talking about true selves and false ego identies as if they are real, but in fact I think you have heard somebody talking about that and are repeating it.

Yes, that's for sure. I listened to Mooji, I appreciate a lot his teachings and I read about no-self concepts against true-self and he said that he can't call it no-self.
I think that and others person I was talking about have influenced me, but I have to admit that is not my experience.

Can you read this: http://liberationunleashed.com/articles ... xperience/ and after that answer this question:
In your Direct Experience is there an actual separate self?
So answer from your own experience, not from what you know or heard of.

From my own experience there's no self.
I can see that Peter,

Thanks!

Now I'm not sure what to do... hehehehe... omg.

You are right, I think I had a very strong attachment to the idea of identity. I feel like relieved.
Peace... but all that are just perceptions.

I would like to understand how the brain make stories out of that. Nice.

I'm really thankful.
It was fast right? I am not sure if that was it or if maybe there's something more hiding.

But at this moment I see there's no - self, but I also feel I have to continue going deeper.
What do you think? Peter...

Warm regards, Petrus

Same to you!

I was so excited that I see "no self" but now that I think of it, I didn't cross the gate...


how is "this" supposed to achieve "that"?
:-P

Hi Daniel,

You are getting closer... Good to see that!

"Deny yourself"

Do you think there is an "I" that can do that?

But I have to say that it makes more sense to think of it as thoughts.

To think of it as thoughts is one, to really see it is true is something else. Isnt that true?

but I have to admit that is not my experience.

Ok that is great. To stick at once own experience makes things more simple.

From my own experience there's no self.

You skipped the word "separate" here. Is that on purpose?
Has there ever been a separate self?

I was so excited that I see "no self" but now that I think of it, I didn't cross the gate...

I am not sure I understand what you mean here. Can you elaborate?

how is "this" supposed to achieve "that"?

It cant. There is only "that".

Warm regards, Petrus

Hi Daniel,

Hi Petrus!!!

You are getting closer... Good to see that!

:-)

"Deny yourself"

Do you think there is an "I" that can do that?

I see it as a way to deny personality and be open to reality. Maybe I have to change the perspective.

To think of it as thoughts is one, to really see it is true is something else. Isnt that true?

That’s very true
:-)

Ok that is great. To stick at once own experience makes things more simple.

That’s what I am trying, forget everything and stick with experience.

You skipped the word "separate" here. Is that on purpose?
Has there ever been a separate self?

Yes, I did that… Because I was trying not to think of reality as a “self”, because I didn’t want to make any idea about “that”. And in fact, I thought that when in Buddhism people talked about the idea of no-self, they meant that reality can’t be called a “self” in the way we understand one. That’s why they said no self.

I never thought it meant not a separated self. Cool. I had a misunderstanding there.

:-P

I was so excited that I see "no self" but now that I think of it, I didn't cross the gate...

I am not sure I understand what you mean here. Can you elaborate?

I thought that once you see there’s no separate self, that will take you to crossing the “gateless gate” , now I see it’s not that easy. (But I know is easy, the mind makes it difficult)

how is "this" supposed to achieve "that"?

It cant. There is only "that".

Ok… You are right. I feel like "I" understand the concepts, and accept the ideas. "I" need to go deeper.

Warm regards, Petrus

Thanks Peter!!! Same to you!!! And thanks for what “you” are doing.

Hi Daniel,

I see it as a way to deny personality and be open to reality.

Who is there to deny something?
Its all toughts and thoughts about thoughts. Can you see that?

Maybe I have to change the perspective.

If there would be an I, maybe it would manage to do so.
So is there one?

That’s what I am trying, forget everything and stick with experience.

Who or what is trying?
Isnt this introducing more untrue stories again? There is no I to try!

Buddhism people talked about the idea of no-self, they meant that reality can’t be called a “self” in the way we understand one.

Let Buddhism be, haha. Just look for yourself.
Ofcourse "seperate self", "no self", "self": it all are concepts.
The one thing we are looking at here with LU is that "I" is a concept too. It is not real, it is made up, a construct of thoughts.

I am fat, I am angry, I am searching, I am spiritual, it all is nonsense. There is no one fat, angry..etc.
It all are experiences only, without someone (an I) in it.
There is experience of thought, of sensations and experience of an unmistakable sense of being.

I thought that once you see there’s no separate self, that will take you to crossing the “gateless gate”

Seeing there is no separate self is the same as crossing the gate.

now I see it’s not that easy

Wow, there is "I" again. Its just a thought: "it is not easy". It is ok that thought is there, it doesnt mean anything, dont you agree?

I feel like "I" understand the concepts, and accept the ideas. "I" need to go deeper.

There is no I to go deeper, can you see that?

Warm regards, Petrus