Your Assistance is Greatly Appreciated

[Silkie752]

Hi.  My name is Carrol and I thank you for your generous support in helping me become enlightened.  In the past month, I have been studying Eckhardt Tolle's teachings so, if you don't mind, I will use his framework to present my self to you.  

Prior toTolle (but in his speak) I would have told you that I have an extremely large pain body and I very much identified with my story; it was "who I am" - poor, abandoned, scared, unloved, abused.  I am  48, married, a stay at home mom to two great children (10 &12), have no financial problems or other worries,  am college educated,  had a career as an over achiever and eventually burned out and have lived with anxiety, incessant chattering in my head and severe bouts of depression since childhood.

Until this past month. I am almost free of this pain body, thanks to Tolle's teaching. I am presence, but I want more. More of what? I dont know. I want to not be so worried about if people like me, I want to be able to say "no" to a request without feeling selfish.  There is still too much "me" I think. I want what you have and I want to help others get there too.  I feel strongly that this is my path, where I should be going.   Your assistance is greatly appreciated.

[nonaparry]

Hi Carrol. My name is Nona. Thank you for your introduction. I have a few questions before we start:

What do you expect liberation is going to be like?
What do you want from it?
How do you imagine a liberated human behaves?
What should it be like?

Please answer with 100% honesty and as much detail as possible. Thank you.

[Chronophonix]

Hi Carrol
My name is Michael
We are going to work together, as soon as you reply to Nona's message
Feel at ease, be confiant, it works !
Tell me where you live, so I know time difference (I'm French, live in France)
Wait to read you
Yours
M.

[Silkie752]

Nona and Michael,

What I expect liberation to be like and what I want from it, are very related of course, as the definition of the one becomes the desire in the other.
I equate liberation with freedom from being affected adversely  by everyone I am exposed too, surrounded by or hear/read about.  Liberation means finding peace and calm in whatever your surroundings or situation may be. Liberation means seeing and appreciating the beauty in everything/person/object around you and harmonizing with that energy. liberation is being able to give of yourself as an endless source of gratitude and love and acceptance.  It is seeing without physically seeing, and knowing without knowing how you know, just that you are so sure that you do. Liberation is leaving all anxieties and fear behind, better than that, it is forgetting they even existed. Liberation is total and complete acceptance and love of yourself without exceptions. liberation is the confidence that your path is a good one and you make no apologies to anyone for that.. in fact, you rejoice in it.

And so, there are many things I want from liberation.  All of the above, incidentally, and more.  I want most to be rid of the anxiety and depression medication I rely on to ensure that I do not become my irrational, frantic mother; the feeling that I am one giant nerve and everyone is poking needles at it; the feelings so low that I am immobilized and cry at the simplest slight or for that matter, even a Kodak commercial.  I want to be able to tolerate ugly-minded people and not soak up all their negativity and have my entire day brought down because a cashier was mean to me at the grocery store or because family members who have their own huge pain bodies to deal with feel the need to spread it far and wide; I want to, at the very least, be able to sit in the same room and not be consumed by these people; at the most, I would like to reach out and show them a way out of their self-made hell.

How do I imagine a liberated human behaves?  A liberated human is free of the illusion that money brings happiness and that ego is a worthy cohort. He does not seek to keep up or put himself above his fellow man or creature, nor does he feel the need to push people down for an illusory advancement. He is giving and forgiving. He seeks the good for many and in many.  He is not bound by glorification and doesn't require platitudes for fulfillment. He is content to be and to experience the energy that is life.

What should it be like? It should be without effort, without anxiety, without the fear of pain.  It should be a pulse of energy flowing through the body in waves of clean, pure joy seeking out the clean, pure energy in other beings and things so that the synchronicity of the meeting amplifies to become more than the simple addition of the two.  It should feel like great possibility, great awareness, worthiness, humility and gratefulness.

Thank you. I have great hopes. --Carrol

Michael, I am Eastern Standard Time from Michigan, USA

[Chronophonix]

Hi Carrol
It's a little bit late here, so I will answer more tomorrow
We have to proceed step by step
So, as you refer to E.Tolle, I invite you to look at this video very carefully, and you will tell me your feeling of what Eckhart is speaking about.
Link : http://youtu.be/YXs5BCO5ltg
Sincerely yours
M.

[Chronophonix]

Hello Carrol
I've read carefully your answers to questions.
There is a common factor in all; guess which ? You, yourself, "I", "me".

All your description is about what can occur after liberation; the first point is to come back to yourself, to your "self"; but not think about it, only feel, see, go deep inside that "self", find it and maybe discover that there is nothing here. You might discover that there is a world, an entire universe, people, lanscapes, trees, flowers, birds, animals, etc...there are also thoughts, emotions, pain, bad or nice feelings, grief, joyce, and all this things happens, you cannot do anything against it, all happens, at each seconds, life happens. You might discover also that the place from where all these things, events are seen is completely empty; nothing here to see, the seeing happens. Eckhart call this "Silence".
So, after looking at the video, the Work is to investigate deeply and directly; don't believe your thoughts; trust only what is now experienced. Observe, just observe; so many things, but take your time, observe deeply and deeply, be as sincere as possible, it's your interest !
Make a report of what is experimented in that way.
One or two daily message should be a good rythm (we have 6 hours time difference)
Sincerely yours
M.

[Silkie752]

Michael .. I am grateful for your style and thank you.

The lesson in the Tolle video along with your request to observe was amazing.  I had previously, but only recently, separated this unconscious, incessant dialogue and refer to it as chatter or the churning of thoughts. I was able to view this as a separate entity - a video player playing the video I no longer wished to see, so I turned it off. When I went into the quiet inside and looked at the turned off video, I experienced a blank, and this time, it stayed quite a while before any thoughts(but only new ones) seeped in.  I turned these off too..."not now". For several minutes, there was just this nothing, then there was a "something" that could see the video player apart from itself, could feel the life of my body around it, could feel the breathe of my body separate, but around it with space in between. There was a feeling of pure joy that made me smile without trying.  So then came the experiencing of my surroundings. All that had form, seemed to have more form.  All that had life, the dog, the plant, had more life.  Everything seemed to be more than it was before.

After returning to the daily happenings of life, the smile stayed with me a while and a calm replaced it.  No more chatter; the video player remains off.  I was able to get to that place once more with the same process.

[Chronophonix]

Carrol

Your last message sounds very nice; so, does your initial request is the same, now? Maybe you need reformulate?
Go on observing how life flows. Amazing, isn't it ?

then there was a "something" that could see the video player apart from itself

Can you write a little bit more about this "something" ?

The evening, I can answer until 1:00 am, so it's 7:00 pm for you. But it's good to take time, no need to hurry :)
Yours
M.

[Silkie752]

Michael -

I'm sorry I didn't get back to you before the end of your evening; I have yoga class Tues night and Thurs morning.  I used the meditation time at the end of class to go find my "something" again, but did not get to the same feeling as before.  This earlier "something" was very strange to me.  If I had to locate it, I would say the feeling came from the base of my throat/neck, where the collarbones start.  Perhaps, I was imagining it, but the something felt like invisible pins-and-needles.. Lightly buzzing. The something was very quiet; no noise.  It felt very peaceful and radiant. My eyes were closed while I felt the something and I , with complete understanding knew that I was not the body surrounding the space which then surrounded the something.  I was aware of the video recorder  but it wasn't close either; it was well outside of the space. I ask now,  Is this consciousness? I could feel the breathing occurring outside of the "me".  I could feel the current tingling through my limbs.

This was not an easy exercise; I had to work to stay there.  But this was in a totally quiet room with no distraction, without life happening around me. At the end of yoga class (10 minutes of meditation), I was hopeful I would reach this state again.  I still had no chatter/video player..good.  I still felt very peaceful..good, also.  But I could not reach the vibrant "something" state. I don't know why.

I am fairly certain that I can keep the video player off or at least, catch it and switch it off before it takes hold . I am very certain that this story the video player plays is not me either, just a story repeating to keep itself alive. I am certain that this body which houses me, is not the real essence of me either but it feels as if the body has energy I can harness.   "me" is the "something" that has been detected.

But does this solve the issues I came here with? In listening to more Eckhart, I see that I must have a very big ego to be so easily hurt by others.. Which seems strange to me because I am not boastful nor do I have grandiose ideas about myself. I do have very strong feelings about being a nice person so does a big ego simply mean strong feelings of any kind? Perhaps so.

I thought that the video player was the ego trying to be the real me. If that is so, why can I turn my chatter off but still know that I cannot be in the same room with the crazies in my family without feeling emotional pain.  Can I turn the emotional pain down?

I will continue watching life flow tomorrow as it is late here.  I have a full day tomorrow but will check in.  Thank you so much for your kind heart.

Carrol

[Chronophonix]

Carrol
I'll write more longer this evening.
Just a idea for now:

I cannot be in the same room with the crazies in my family without feeling emotional pain

Who is this "I" who is feeling emotionnal pain ? Don't think about, but observe, look, and see; does this "I" really exist ?
Yours
M.

[Silkie752]

Michael,
Ahhhh.. Now I see the pain body that has tricked me into identifying with it.  The real I would not react; it would simply allow what is, to be. It seems the choice is mine to allow the pain body to react, the ego to react or the I to simply let it be.  The choice is obvious. Wow.

Thank you,  Carrol

[Chronophonix]

Carrol

it would simply allow what is, to be.

Yes, very good

It seems the choice is mine to allow the pain body to react, the ego to react or the I to simply let it be. The choice is obvious.

Yes, it's obvious, but is there necessarily a "I" to make a choice ? Or is the choice made from itself, without a "you" to choice ? Look at this accurately : is a "I" needed to simply let it be ?

I could feel the breathing occurring outside of the "me".

How do you feel with this idea : "the breathing simply occurs"?
Is a "me" needed to breathe ? Observe.

"me" is the "something" that has been detected.

Does the "something" need a "I" to be felt ? You lived a awesome experience, and this experience happened, simply happened; the thought that there were an experiencer is illusory and point to a pure fiction: the fiction of "I". Look to find if "I" exist.

It felt very peaceful and radiant. My eyes were closed while I felt the something and I , with complete understanding knew that I was not the body surrounding the space which then surrounded the something. I was aware of the video recorder but it wasn't close either; it was well outside of the space. I ask now, Is this consciousness?

If this is consciousness, does it need a "I" ? Consciousness is, "I" is not.

Take your time to answer, observe, look, enjoy what you are discovering, and let the life flow.

Sincerely yours
M.

[Silkie752]

Michael,


So I am trying to work this thought out.  I am not sure what to refer to my "energy something" as; I see that it is just a label and that labels are primarily given to concrete thoughts, images, ideas,things.   If I felt "it" and it gave me joy, why can't it have a name? Why can't I redefine what the word "I" means to me if I know what I refer to?  Am I just being stubborn?

How do I feel about the statement "the breathing simply occurs":  Yes, the breathing simply occurs because the body is hard wired to perform this function; many functions indeed.  And if the body cannot perform the act itself, such as eating, it triggers discomfort until it is fed.  This is where it gets confusing to me; who/what is making the food choice and deciding to go obtain the food if there is no "I" maintaining the requirements of the body?  

"Is I needed to simply let it be?". No, simply being does not require an I .  Simply experiencing does not require an I.  But if the consciousness is truly happy to let things simply be, can it also be that part which seeks wisdom, seeks challenges in life, makes the food choice, desires to pet the dog? Is that part which is doing the thinking actually a part of the consciousness? I want to say yes, but I do not have confidence that there isn't another ego-like body that is making these decisions and choices, tricking me into identifying with it.

"Does the "something" need an "I" to be felt?":  I am very certain, No.  There was no I present when the experience occurred; it simply was.  I see very clearly that there is no I in this being consciousness.  I am simply having a difficult time determining where the decisions are made..Hmmmm ... I just had a thought ... that the ego is the part which wants to gain knowledge to promote itself, it seeks challenges to make itself important, it makes food choices and chooses to pet the dog so that it feels loved and appreciated.  It did trick me again. Oh my, am I gullible.

But that would mean, that consciousness ONLY is; everything else is performed, chosen or done elsewhere.

Must sign off for tonight. Thank you. Carrol

[Chronophonix]

Hi Carrol

You're so nice : you asks questions and a few minuts after make the good answer !

But that would mean, that consciousness ONLY is; everything else is performed, chosen or done elsewhere.

If you feel this deeply, nothing else to search.

"Does the "something" need an "I" to be felt?": I am very certain, No. There was no I present when the experience occurred; it simply was. I see very clearly that there is no I in this being consciousness.

The same for any second of your life, nothing else !

Is that part which is doing the thinking actually a part of the consciousness?

I'm sure you already know the answer : Yes.

who/what is making the food choice and deciding to go obtain the food if there is no "I" maintaining the requirements of the body?

Just a thought, nothing! You can replace it by :"the food choice is made, and to go obtain the food is decided" The result is the same, because really, you will get the food, choose it, cook it and eat it, all this events will happen, a "who" is not needed for that !

Hmmmm ... I just had a thought ... that the ego is the part which wants to gain knowledge to promote itself, it seeks challenges to make itself important, it makes food choices and chooses to pet the dog so that it feels loved and appreciated.

Just a thought; nothing. Grab this thought, look at it right in the eyes, and tell it "Oh, you're only a thought, you're nothing, you have no more power on me", and PAF! the thought dissolve instantaneously.

So now, the only thing to do is going on to observe how everything happens without an "I" to decide. Of course, the label "I" remains useful to current expression, but with the knowing it no longer refers to an identified ego. For me, "I" is only a grammatical convenience, reference is not needed, but if you find necessary to have one, you have choice : I am all, I am nothing, I am consciousness, I am that, I am the universe, etc...

Tell me how do you feel after reading that.
Sincerely yours
M

PS : here follows an awesome text from Nisargadatta Maharaj

" The only 'awakening' is appercieving of that-which-is. Indeed there is no question of a 'who' in this apperceiving because the apperceiving itself is one's true nature; and the pre-requisite of such apperceiving is the disappearence of the phenomenon. What is apperceived is manifestation as a whole, not by a 'who' keeping himself as a separate observer. The apperceiving is the total functioning of the Absolute - apperceiving is what you are. The universe appearing in consciousness is a mirror which reflects every sentient being, consciousness is the very source of the apparent universe. Consciousness is not different from its manifested content. And such apperceiving has nothing whatever to do with a 'who', with a phenomenon, an appearence in consciousness which is only an infinitesimal part of the total fonctioning. The profound intuitive understanding of this fact is the only 'awakening' or 'enlightenment', the only illusory 'liberation' from an illusory 'bondage', the awakening from the living-dream."

"The seeker is none other than the consciousness seeking its source."

"When conceptualization ceases, identity, which is the basis of conceptualization, cannot remain, and in the absence of identity there is no boundage. The illusory identity is the illusory boundage."

[Chronophonix]

«Hmmmm ... I just had a thought ... that the ego is the part which wants to gain knowledge to promote itself, it seeks challenges to make itself important, it makes food choices and chooses to pet the dog so that it feels loved and appreciated. It did trick me again. Oh my, am I gullible.»

I have misunderstood what you were meaning; my response was about what your ego is saying. But the fact of seeing that your ego "trick you again" is great. Sorry, sometimes, my lacks in english language trick me !
Yours
M.