The Gate

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?:
Hello, I can across liberation unleashed after watching a YouTube video. I have been practicing self enquiry for 6 month's I was lead along this path through suffering and the now burning desire to find the truth. Having never been spiritual or involved in any form of practice, it is time to seek some guidance.

What are you looking for? What do you expect from this:
The reason for joining is to relate to people who are going through or have been through the gate as it is called here, the need to gage where or how far along the path this journey has taken me so far and to communicate with the right knowledge of experience.

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?:
I never new about any of this until about 6 months ago, I started meditation and its now all I am interested to find the truth. I have never read any sand script's not even the bible just what I have picked up from YouTube. I practice self enquiry and feel there is progress but need guidance.

Hi Simon,

PLEASE READ THIS THE FOLLOWING THOROUGHLY and when responding please acknowledge that you have read this thoroughly and agree to the ground rules.

My name is Kay, and I am happy to assist in exploring the illusion of the separate self. I can only point the way but you have to see it for yourself. That is why we are described as guides and not teachers.
I will ask questions and set you some exercises for you to make the realisation that there is no separate self. This will be the focus. There are no right or wrong answers and there is nobody judging you. You can't get this wrong.

Before we start, let’s get through the formalities first:

If you haven't already seen it, there is introductory info here, the disclaimer and a short video too.
http://www.liberationunleashed.com/

SOME GROUND RULES:-

1. Post at least once a day, if you cannot post, or need more time, let me know.
2. Be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.
3. ANSWER ONLY FROM ACTUAL EXPERIENCE (smell, taste, sound, sensation, image and observed thoughts).
Read this article at http://liberationunleashed.com/articles ... xperience/ for more help on distinguishing what is actual/direct experience.) Longwinded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process.
4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this investigation.
Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.
5. Understand that I will be guiding you, rather than teaching you, and the more you put into this process the more you will get out of it.

TECHNICAL SUPPORT

- You can reply to this thread by pushing the purple-orange coloured button 'Post Reply" at the left bottom of this page.

- PLEASE LEARN to use the quote function. When replying to a question, please use the quote function to highlight the question being answered. Instructions are located in the link below :
http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

- The site has a habit of logging you out while you write a reply, which can mean you lose what you have written. One way to avoid this is to write elsewhere (word document), then just paste the message into the 'reply' window when you're ready to send.

If you are happy to agree to the above and have me as your guide, we can start the process.

Kay

Thank you

Hello Kay, Thank you for agreeing to guide be along this path, i am ready to start when you are. Thank you once again.

Simon

Hi Simon,

Welcome to LU and thank you for agreeing to the guidelines!  I see you have mastered the art of the quote function. It wasn’t too difficult was it! :)

I would like for you to have a look at your expectations of what LU and Guiding is about, and what you are hoping to achieve from this exploration of seeing through the illusion of the concept of a separate individual/person.

Following is a list of what LU is NOT about. Could you have a look at that list and read it a couple of times and let me know what comes up for you. There are also 5 questions that I would like for you to answer at the bottom of the list.

This is not a way to escape your daily life.
This is not about gaining something extra, becoming something special.
This is not about cultivating an altered state of consciousness.
This isn’t a trick of the mind, or twisting the mind into believing certain thoughts.
This is not about gaining a particular bit of knowledge.
This is not about having a certain thought or sequence of thoughts.
This is not about becoming a holy, good, moral or better person.
This is not a belief, religion, or a philosophy, it not magical or mystical.
This is not going to lead you to eternal peace and happiness, it is not about happiness.
This is not about freedom from emotions and intense feelings.
This is not about getting rid of self, ego, I.
This is not a solution to problems in relationships.
This is not a way to get free of depression or other diseases.
This is not about stopping thoughts, changing thoughts, getting rid of thoughts.
This is not a way to make the story of you disappear.
This is not about convincing you of anything.
This is not something that will lead to accumulation of money or things.
This is not a self-improvement program.

1. How will Life change?
2. How will you change?
3. What will be different?
4. What is missing?
5. What would you like to achieve or obtain by this conversation?

When answering the questions, please use the quote function to highlight each question being answered and answer each question individually.

Kind regards
Kay

Hi Kay I think I have mastered the quote function :),My Expectation of LU and Guiding is Honesty in return for honesty and clear guidance along this path the rest is for me to experience

]From the list
The words that stand out from this are happiness, I Ego and self and thoughts. Isn't Happiness what all beings are seeking, and the dissolution of The I or ego is required. My understanding is that the mind is the cause of all suffering and quieting of the mind is necessary.

How will life change

My understanding is that life does not change it just keeps on happening as before.

How will I Change

When I see reality there will be no I to change.

What will be different

My perception of the unreal and reality.

What is missing

The Truth of who I really am.

What would i like to achieve or gain

There is nothing to achieve or gain, just a clear understanding and guidance.

Kind regards
Simon

Hey Simon,

Oops I think we had a blow out on the quote function lol!

Okay, we are looking at expectations, so I would like for you to continue to look at what comes up for you (anger, disappointment, fear, joy, frustration…whatever) when you read my responses…and let me know.

My Expectation of LU and Guiding is Honesty in return for honesty and clear guidance along this path the rest is for me to experience

Great…we are on the same page…no use in beating around the bush through pretense, false beliefs or lies! All I can do is point for you to LOOK, if you don’t LOOK then we go nowhere but around in circles.

From the list
The words that stand out from this are happiness, I Ego and self and thoughts. Isn't Happiness what all beings are seeking, and the dissolution of The I or ego is required. My understanding is that the mind is the cause of all suffering and quieting of the mind is necessary.

There is no such thing as the ‘ego’ to be dissolved. The label “ego” is a label among thousands that are found as thought. This would make a separate individual labelled “I” + ‘ego’ which equals two. There is never two of anything…ever – nor is there one of anything/anyone either - including a ‘person/individual’ labelled Simon.

There is no such thing as a “mind” and good luck in trying to quieten a mind that doesn’t exist. Happiness, just like sadness, anger, resentment, joy, tiredness, vitality etc are all states and like any state continue to change. There is no separate individual who is seeking or who can attain happiness. Seeing through the illusory ‘person’ is not a change in a state of mind, but is a recognition.

How will life change

My understanding is that life does not change it just keeps on happening as before.

Yes. When the truth of Santa Claus was seen, did life change? Christmas still came and went, gifts were still exchanged and Santa Claus is seen at all shopping malls! What changed was your perception because although Santa didn’t disappear and nor did Christmas, you belief in Santa is what fell away.

How will I Change

When I see reality there will be no I to change.

There is no separate individual labelled “I” now, so there is nothing to change. However, it SEEMS that perception does change.

What will be different

My perception of the unreal and reality.

Yes. However there is no separate individual who has a perception of the real or unreal!

What is missing

The Truth of who I really am.

The truth of who you are isn’t missing and never has been missing…you ‘experience’ and know the truth of who you are everyday in every moment.

What would i like to achieve or gain

There is nothing to achieve or gain, just a clear understanding and guidance.

There is no ‘person’ who will ever have clear understanding and guidance. What is already here and is ‘experienced’ in every moment is already known and never has been unknown….that is impossible.

So let me know what came up for you? Seeing expectations and fears around this is important and need to be seen upfront. So this is where honesty comes into play...from the get go!

Kay

Hi Kay, maybe if we don't mention the you know which button all will be well :)

1. Experienced a slight feeling of joy and agree with your remarks, but one question did a rise why would you use the word lies !

I know there is no I or ego or self and realise that happiness is a state forever changing so what is the true nature of being if not happiness ? Quieting the mind is something i have experienced it will always be there but never as busy. Emotions like anger, hate, jealousy, sadness are rarely felt these day's and when they do arise there is no power to them anymore

3.I think we agreed on the rest of my replies, I guess iam still looking to find something if i keep mentioning Happiness !

Simon

Hi Simon,

With the quote function, only use it when you are highlighting a question. I would like you to highlight the entire question you are answering with the quote function please. Your answers don't need to be highlighted with the quote function – that way I can distinguish the question from your answer.. This keeps the posts neat and tidy and legible.

Experienced a slight feeling of joy and agree with your remarks, but one question did a rise why would you use the word lies !

The label “joy” is the actual experience (AE) of thought and is not the actual experience of joy
The sensation labelled “joy” is the AE of sensation and is not the AE of joy
The image/colours labelled “body/me/I/Simon is the AE of image and not the AE of a ‘person feeling joy.

So the actual experience (AE) of ‘joy’ doesn’t exist. What is really there is thought/label + sensation + image which a thought glues together and labels is as ‘joy’.

Can you see this?

There was no specific purpose for using the word “lie”…it was a word amongst the other words used that describes the opposite of being honest!

I know there is no I or ego or self and realise that happiness is a state forever changing so what is the true nature of being if not happiness ? Quieting the mind is something i have experienced it will always be there but never as busy. Emotions like anger, hate, jealousy, sadness are rarely felt these day's and when they do arise there is no power to them anymore

Exactly where is this ‘I’ located that “knows there is no I or ego or self”. Please describe the location to me in detail.

Where exactly is a “mind” located?

Can you find an entity/thing anywhere that has “experienced a quiet mind”?

There is no ‘person/individual’ that has or ever has had emotions like anger, hate, jealousy or sadness.

I think we agreed on the rest of my replies, I guess iam still looking to find something if i keep mentioning Happiness !

Yes it seems as though there is an expectation that seeing through the illusory ‘self’ will bring a state of more happiness. It’s good to be aware of this and to also be aware that ‘happiness’ comes and goes like it always has.

Please answer the question highlighted blue and remember to use the quote function. Please answer from ACTUAL EXPERIENCE (AE) which is also called Direct experience. (I use the term actual experience) and not from preconceived thoughts and beliefs.

Kay

Hi Kay, Thank you for your reply.

Can you see this ?

yes I can see this now, Joy is a label of thought , and the sensation of joy is the AE of sensation. Its all a product of thought and there is no person /Simon here that is experiencing any of this.

where is I located

The AE of I is located in thought I can't find where thought a rises or disappears it is impossible to locate as they don't exist.

where is the mind located

mind is thought so it cannot be located as it does not exist either.

Can you find a entity/thing that has experienced a quiet mind

There is no mind to quiet and no enity to find it is all thought.

Simon

Hi Simon,

You did some nice looking! Nicely done and thank-you :)

Can you see this ?

yes I can see this now, Joy is a label of thought , and the sensation of joy is the AE of sensation. Its all a product of thought and there is no person /Simon here that is experiencing any of this.

Yes, exactly!

where is I located

The AE of I is located in thought I can't find where thought a rises or disappears it is impossible to locate as they don't exist.

Thoughts do exist. You are aware of thoughts, just as you are aware of sounds, sensation, colour (images), taste and smell…so thoughts at face-value do exist and are actual experience. However what thought points to (the content of thought) are story and not real.

To further clarify…..labels/words are just pointing, but label/words are never what they are saying. If so, the word "breathing" would be moving right now and the word "sweet" would taste sweet. Some words point to AE, for example brrrrrr is labelled ‘cold’ which points to AE of sensation.

Can you this this?

where is the mind located

mind is thought so it cannot be located as it does not exist either.

So from my response above…is it clear that “mind” doesn’t exist but the label “mind’ is actual experience of thought?

Can you find a entity/thing that has experienced a quiet mind

There is no mind to quiet and no enity to find it is all thought.

Yes…lovely! :)

Please answer the highlighted questions in blue.

Kay

Hi Kay it helps if you start with a blank canvas I didn't.

Can you see this ?

so thought Is an actual experience just like sensations and perception, and I is an illusion of thought. What is experiencing all of this if in reality nothing exsits. Thats the bit I can't see !

So from my response above…is it clear that “mind” doesn’t exist but the label “mind’ is actual experience of thoughts/quote]
My understanding is that mind doesnt exist and that anything with a label is AE of thought. Words can only point you to this experience so in reality all that is happening is experience ?

Regards
Simon

Hey Simon,

There are many many who didn't start with a blank canvas...and believe me...you are doing really good. You picked up AE very quickly. Just relax and enjoy the process and the LOOKING.

Can you see this ?

so thought Is an actual experience just like sensations and perception, and I is an illusion of thought. What is experiencing all of this if in reality nothing exsits. Thats the bit I can't see !

Are you not as aware of thoughts as you are of sound, taste, smell, sensation and colours/images?

Can thought have an illusion?
Can thought be aware of anything or know anything?
Or is the label “I” just AE of thought and the image labelled “I” is the AE of image/colour?

Don’t worry about whether or not you can see what is experiencing this at the moment. We have only just begun.

So from my response above…is it clear that “mind” doesn’t exist but the label “mind’ is actual experience of thoughts

My understanding is that mind doesnt exist and that anything with a label is AE of thought. Words can only point you to this experience so in reality all that is happening is experience ?

Yes…spot on.

So let’s look at thoughts a little more with an exercise.

Sit for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear as they appear and notice what the thought actually is - words, images, bits of music - whatever appears.

Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying, and rather just notice how they appear, without you doing anything at all.

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
Where are they coming from?
Where are they going?
Can you predict your next thought?
Can you push away any thought?
Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
Can you stop thinking a thought in the middle?
Can anything choose not to have painful or negative thoughts?
Can anything pick and choose any kind of thought?
Is it possible to control any thoughts?
It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?

Please look carefully when doing this exercise and answer all questions individually using the quote function.

Kay

Hi kay,

So are you not as aware of thought's as you are of sounds, taste, smell, sensations etc

There is no I, you, me to be aware of anything...thoughts are AE as is sounds, taste, smell, sensations etc something is aware of them.

Can thought have an illusion ?

Thought is a AE and the I, ego is an illusion of thought.

Can thought be aware of anything or know anything ?

No thought is an AE and experience can't be aware of its self only awareness.

Or is the label I an AE of thought and the image label I an AE of image/colours

The I is an illusion of thought, thought is the actual experience, and the image label I is an AE of image/colours.