The Gate

Hello folks. I'll get the whole "What do you hope to gain" question taking care of in this post.

I am a novice meditation practitioner, who wants to supplement his path to enlightenment. I think this method could be a decent addition to the practices I'm already employing. At very least, I think direct pointing could help keep me stay on track, and offer some support, as I am currently stuck as an internet yogi. I think some kind of guided practice would be a benefit to my work. I don't expect any kind of cosmic bliss. I just think this might be a good way to strengthen the foundation of my practice.

I just think this might be a good way to strengthen the foundation of my practice.

Ok Hopeful, here's a reality check.
Meditation is a wonderful tool (i have been doing Vipassana for a few years now) but it will very unlikely lead to enlightenment. (sorry) Keep doing it though as it has benefits. (maybe discuss this later)
This forum is about one thing which is not a spiritual path (although it may have spiritual consequences)
It is about seeing through the delusion/illusion/hallucination that a self actually exists.
It is not about knowledge or theory, it is about experiencing. Experiencing the true nature of 'you'
Tell me where is this thing you call I or Me ?
Can you locate it ?
What is it's relationship to thoughts (mind) ?
LOOK, don't reason. Observe.
please answer all questions.
Take your time, but it is good if you can post at least once a day.
Remember, no theory or second hand knowledge. Answer from your experience.

We will put an end to your seeking with this, so if you have a story of yourself as a spiritual seeker and you want to keep it, you'd better do a runner.
This can only fail if you quit, and if you quit part way through you will be left with an uncomfortable itch.
Let's do it !

This forum is about one thing which is not a spiritual path (although it may have spiritual consequences)

From my perspective, spirituality is a secular pursuit. Spirit, attitude, etc... They all describe the approach we take to life. Labels, all of them. Words that struggle to communicate an idea.

It is about seeing through the delusion/illusion/hallucination that a self actually exists.
It is not about knowledge or theory, it is about experiencing. Experiencing the true nature of 'you'

That's the real problem. I can philosophize my day away, but it brings me no closer to actually experiencing the "no-self" that I have and intellectual "understanding" of.

Tell me where is this thing you call I or Me ?
Can you locate it ? What is it's relationship to thoughts (mind) ?

This is where I'm hitting a wall.I can't find the illusion of self, but it feels like it is there. I have had some success separating from most bodily sensation, but thoughts are another story. I see them, they feel like "me." Sometimes I can get a pretty good vantage point to see them. I've had one good experience wherein I pulled my perspective away from my thoughts and observed them. Essentially, I found myself in a second layer of thought. It's getting these thoughts unstuck that really perplexes me. I watch them come up, and drift away. They certainly are impermanent. They seem to come from a tiny place that dangles in the consciousness on a thread. Sometimes they're like a mist, others they're a stream. In all cases they are very small objects, in a sea of emptiness. There is a feeling that these things are being experienced by me. It seems like "no-self" could be right there at that intersection between thought and consciousness. I just need scissors to cut that thread.

That's the real problem. I can philosophize my day away

Yes, that is a problem when it comes to waking up. You cannot wake up using thought. Thought is what keeps you asleep.

It seems like "no-self" could be right there at that intersection between thought and consciousness.

Ok, we are not looking for a "no-self" (which is an oxymoron) Look for a thing you call self or I or Me.

I pulled my perspective away from my thoughts and observed them. I found myself in a second layer of thought.

Yes, that's it. Thoughts. Thoughts all the way down.
So is it possible that Self/I/Me is composed of Thoughts (mind) ?
That it is being continually re-invented by thought ?

Yes, that's it. Thoughts. Thoughts all the way down.
So is it possible that Self/I/Me is composed of Thoughts (mind) ?
That it is being continually re-invented by thought ?[/quote]
That is distinctly plausible. The thoughts think that might be the case.

That is distinctly plausible. The thoughts think that might be the case.

We need to go just 1 step further here, a step beyond thoughts.
LOOK, confirm that this is the case.
If you look and find that there is No self beyond thought, then we have the basis for a completely new paradigm.
Confirm this deduction in Experience. LOOK !
Is there a Self that is more than thought ?

We need to go just 1 step further here, a step beyond thoughts.
LOOK, confirm that this is the case.
If you look and find that there is No self beyond thought, then we have the basis for a completely new paradigm.
Confirm this deduction in Experience. LOOK !
Is there a Self that is more than thought ?

No. I'm not really aware of anyone who is observing.

No. I'm not really aware of anyone who is observing.

Pretty wishy washy Hopeful. "not really aware of.." suggests that there may be a you but that you just can't find it.
Hunt it down, Look and watch your thought reactions to Looking as you Determine to settle this once and for all.
Don't give answers that you think i might want. Describe your experience.
Is there a you anywhere, has there ever been a core you ?
Lets take an example of a car. We call it a car but really it is a label we put on a bunch of parts that are assembles in a certain way. A gogomobile and a rolls royce don't have much in common but both are known by the concept of a car. If we disassemble all of the parts we are Not left with a core called 'car'. The label as a concept works.
Is it possible that the label I or Me is a concept that conveniently describes mind/body ?
That there is no core 'you' ?