Helping me see beyond me - Santhan

[Santhan]

Please introduce yourself here:

My name is Santhan. I am a 34 year man from Hyderabad, India. I aspire to live an energetic, abundant life.

-What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?

A couple of friends participated in this forum previously and had mentioned it to me. I heard about it from them about a year ago. At the time it didn't seem very important for me to do this, but of late, I have been noticing my patterns of thought, how closely I associate myself with all the events and actions of my life. Now it feels right to participate in this process, so that I can see beyond.

-What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?

I remember the moment that I conscious became a 'seeker'. I met an elderly lady at a Spirituality meets Psychology conference, during which I saw the work of many people who were working with consciousness in health, education, and other fields. I was filled with questions. I happened to be standing next to this lady at lunch, and in polite conversation I said to her, "It's so exciting to see all this. I have so many questions." Her response was, "It's good to have questions. How about answers? Do questions and answers come from the same place inside you?". Something clicked inside me when I heard this, and I became curious about this place that answers come from.

Subsequently I pursued studies in psychology for two years, and yoga for four years. I practiced energy medicine and explore many aspects of holistic and alternative healing (my education is as an allopathic doctor, but I don't practice that form of medicine). I have dabbled in meditation, but not seriously until now. For the past month, I have been regularly meditating.

-What do you expect of the conversation on this forum?

I want to see through my ego.

[codyjdennis]

Hi Santhan,

My name is Cody and I would be glad to be your guide.

Let me know if that's okay with you & we can get started.

Best,
Cody

[Santhan]

Thank you Cody!

Let's get started.

regards
Santhan

[codyjdennis]

Hey Santhan,

A few quick guidelines: look to post daily/regularly or post to say if a break is needed; and set aside any other spiritual practices during our inquiry together.

Also, our disclaimer.

http://www.liberationunleashed.com/

If you could confirm you have seen the above - then continue below.

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Before we get started I'll mention that I guide based on the premise of Looking with fresh eyes into our own experience. No assumptions of there being a self or no self. Simply we are interested in what our actual experience has to show "us".

Though I may address other things in our dialogue... everything will always revolve and come back to "Is there or Is there not a self." The main concern is seeing if we can actually find one in our experience. It is ALWAYS more of a yes or no answer.

At LU we call it Direct Experience. "DE" consists of our senses. Seeing, Hearing, Tasting, Touching, Smelling. And possibly we can add feeling into that. The priority though are those 5 senses.

At times it's possible that I may appear harsh. Just know I am not attacking you, I am keeping our dialogue on track. I just call it "cutting the fat" or "cutting the bullshit". It's not personal by any means.


Ok, so let's get to it. It's really as simple as this. It's so so simple. We are constantly referencing "I", "Me" , "Mine" etc.
The looking following this is basically questioning those thoughts. If it is real it should be able to be found outside of just a thought. By outside of thought I mean through the five senses. Basically the basis of what we call our "real" experience.

in your actual experience right now look for this "self" or "I". Can it be found?

It can help to look at each sense individually.
Is there a 'self' in hearing?
Is there a 'self' in smelling?
Is there a 'seeing' in hearing?
etc...

Really look. Look to experience first. Then respond to me through words.

Best,
Cody

[Santhan]

Dear Cory,

I have already committed to a meditative practice which I have to continue without break for 6 months, and have also signed up for a spiritual retreat in early July.

Would you recommend that I wait until these commitments are completed?

Regards
Santhan

[codyjdennis]

You could continue the meditative practice during this inquiry. In fact it may help.

However, if there is a desire to see into reality it doesn't need to take anymore time. As I said, we are questioning the reality of the "I" in our direct experience. It's not a belief system, spiritual practice, nor a teaching. It's looking into what's actually here. Really a very ordinary thing.

Anyway, you do not have to do this inquiry if you don't want. I will not force you to stay. This is all about what you want.

If you decide to not do it right now & decide to do it later I'll be around.

Best,
Cody

[Santhan]

I would like to do this now, and saw in your previous post that its recommended to set aside any other spiritual practices during our inquiry together.

I will spend time on looking at my senses and post again.

regards
Santhan

[Santhan]

Hi Cody

As I focused on hearing I could observe
1. Sound
2. Thoughts about the sound - identifying it
3. I couldn't hear my 'self' but I was puzzled. How could I be hearing if I am not here. In my place someone else may hear some other sound, or give a different name to the same sound. So the self is not in the hearing, but it is gives meaning to what is heard?

[codyjdennis]

Hi Santhan,

How could I be hearing if I am not here.

The only way I can explain it is the "real you" or "reality" is hearing.

I'll just point out that saying "I can hear" is the equivalent of saying "Thought can Hear". How exactly can a word or even better yet a letter hear?

See, it's not so much that there isn't something here. There is just a case of mistaken identity. You are not the thought in the head. The 'real you' is not the thought "I", "me", "mine", "myself" etc. It's imaginary.

How can we know that it is imaginary? Check back in with experience. If it's 'real' it should be able to be felt, touched, heard, smelled, or seen. That is the test.

Can you do any of those things with those words "I", "me", "mine", "myself".

I couldn't hear my 'self'

This is beautiful

Best,
Cody

[Santhan]

In one way my experience of 'I' seems to be when I think the word 'I'. In that sense 'I' is a thought / concept if mind.

But I can see, hear, smell, touch, taste my body. Is the body not 'I'? This 'I' is very real.

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[codyjdennis]

Hey Santhan,

In that sense 'I' is a thought / concept if mind.

YESS :). It is a thought.

But I can see, hear, smell, touch, taste my body. Is the body not 'I'? This 'I' is very real

Pay close close attention here. Notice how in direct experience there is an obvious LIVE experience of what we call our body.

Notice this though, "body" is a word just like "I". They are both thought. Or as you say concept of mind. They are labeled on top of the RAW experience of our body.

Can this word "body" be seen, heard, smelled, touched, body?

[Santhan]

Hi Cody,

Yes, i am calling the raw physical experience of the moment as my body. I am also referring to past experiences of physical pain or pleasure as body.

I see what you mean. The word body itself is a thought. It is not perceived by senses.

And the raw experience is not only physical; it's a mix of thought and feeling too. But I have different words for that - mind, heart. Even those words are just thoughts. There is only raw experience and my attempts to understand it by thinking about it, and naming parts of it.

Also as I contemplated this, I had another thought - what I am calling 'I' is the boundary within which I am perceiving this raw experience.

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[Santhan]

Hi Cody,

I am wondering if you are receiving notifications of posts?

Regards
Santhan

[codyjdennis]

Hi,
I did. Sorry I am moving apartments and was only on here periodically today. I saw your post and will respond soon.

Thanks for your patience

[Santhan]

Hi Cody

When will you be able to resume our conversation?

Santhan



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