I am seeking a guide

[blackfoot332]

My name is Dan Whitehead.

In the past month or so, I have...
-read through the first three chapters of the free e-book on no-self.com
-read about half of the 'Butterflies are free to fly' e-book
-read about half of the 'Gateless Gatecrashers' pdf
-read through and completed to Step 5 of the instructions on Ilona's Marked, Eternal blog


My understanding of the non-existence of "me" is pretty clearly stuck in the intellectual belief stage, it seems. I am really appreciative of all of this "no self" community making your services available for free.

When I instruct myself "Come up with a thought!", meaning an intentionally invented thought, I see that I cannot. I cannot will a thought into existence, on command. This seems still to be an insufficient demonstration of my non-identification with any thoughts.

[codyjdennis]

Hi blackfoot332,

My name is Cody & I would be happy to be your guide if thats okay with you.

Best,
Cody

[blackfoot332]

Hi Cody that sounds great :) You can call me Dan if you'd like.

I was just listening to the "Enlightening Quotes" audio. Also, Mike from no-self.com was helping me last week. His advice to listen to the sensations of the body is helpful, I think. It calms me, gives me a place of rest from having to "figure it all out" with my thoughts. I tried following this advice intensely, but it ended with me lying in bed, falling in and out of sleep, and then becoming very anxious until I found a meaningful task to pursue. I am currently having a vague feeling of "going with the flow", selflessness, but I think it's because I've been awake just over 24 hours, and so it is just a temporary state of consciousness that I'm confusing for acceptance.

[codyjdennis]

Hi Dan :),

I was just listening to the "Enlightening Quotes" audio. Also, Mike from no-self.com was helping me last week. His advice to listen to the sensations of the body is helpful, I think. It calms me, gives me a place of rest from having to "figure it all out" with my thoughts. I tried following this advice intensely, but it ended with me lying in bed, falling in and out of sleep, and then becoming very anxious until I found a meaningful task to pursue. I am currently having a vague feeling of "going with the flow", selflessness, but I think it's because I've been awake just over 24 hours, and so it is just a temporary state of consciousness that I'm confusing for acceptance.

Thank you for sharing that with me.

Before we get started I'll mention that I guide based on the premise of Looking with fresh eyes into our own experience. No assumptions of there being a self or no self. Simply we are interested in what our actual experience has to show "us".

Though I may address other things in our dialogue... everything will always revolve and come back to "Is there or Is there not a self." The main concern is seeing if we can actually find one in our experience.

At LU we call it Direct Experience. "DE" consists of our senses. Seeing, Hearing, Tasting, Touching, Smelling. And possibly we can add feeling into that. The priority though are those 5 senses.

At times it's possible that I may appear harsh. Just know I am not attacking you, I am keeping our dialogue on track. I just call it "cutting the bullshit". It's not personal by any means.


Ok, so let's get to it. Look in your last post how many times you wrote "me", "I'. Now, I understand that in a dialogue such as this we have to use words like these. It's kind of impossible to avoid it. I am just pointing it out to show you how much it's being referenced.

Now in your actual experience right now look for this "self" or "I". Can it be found?

It can help to look at each sense individually.
Is there a 'self' in hearing?
Is there a 'self' in smelling?
Is there a 'seeing' in hearing?

Really look. Look to experience first.

Best,
Cody

[blackfoot332]

No there’s no self in hearing. There’s no self in smelling. There’s no self in seeing. There’s no self in tasting. There’s no self in touching either.

[codyjdennis]

Awesome :)

So is there any self at all? Can any kind of self be found in your actual experience?

[blackfoot332]

I keep paying attention to the 5 senses. I seem most able to experience intimately, immediately that hearing is just happening. The other senses are more difficult to be very present for- it seems like my experiences of them are memories of a few seconds before.

I tried bringing my attention to emotion and then thought and looking for a self. It feels like there are many thoughts compressed into furious little ball of white noise or static- I can't understand the thoughts, but they are always present, fighting with all other experiences for my attention, always causing me deep, intense anxiety and an inability to relax. I have always been wrapped up in thoughts, mostly trying to solve the very problem of this ball.

For full disclosure, I am currently diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder. The affective part- depression- has been diagnosed twice before, and i am comfortable with that assessment. The schizo part- disorganized thinking- I don't agree with. But I just journaled a little about this anxiety to discuss with my psychiatrist.

[codyjdennis]

For full disclosure, I am currently diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder. The affective part- depression- has been diagnosed twice before, and i am comfortable with that assessment. The schizo part- disorganized thinking- I don't agree with. But I just journaled a little about this anxiety to discuss with my psychiatrist.

Thank you for sharing that with me

I seem most able to experience intimately, immediately that hearing is just happening.

Nicee :)

I tried bringing my attention to emotion and then thought and looking for a self. It feels like there are many thoughts compressed into furious little ball of white noise or static- I can't understand the thoughts, but they are always present, fighting with all other experiences for my attention, always causing me deep, intense anxiety and an inability to relax. I have always been wrapped up in thoughts, mostly trying to solve the very problem of this ball.

I want you to notice carefully the section I put in bold.

Essentially if I were to break the sentence down it would be like saying "Thought has been wrapped up in thought, mostly trying to solve the very problem of this ball".

See, "You" ARE thought.

I invite you to look right now in your direct experience to check and see if there IS or IS NOT a self. It's a yes or no question. Maybe's do not suffice. Kind of's do not suffice. Either it can be found or it can't.

Best,
Cody

[blackfoot332]

A self is not found. There is no self. The labels thought, emotion, and sensation sufficiently classify experience. Thoughts don't understand the importance, the use of not finding a self. The emotion is not transcendent, relieved, "free at last". Worry worries about its own future existence. Doubt doubts. Peace is at peace.

[codyjdennis]

A self is not found.

Awesome :)


So are there any remaining doubts about there being a self?

[blackfoot332]

Yes, but the strength of recent experience prevails. :)

[codyjdennis]

What are the doubts?

Always check back in with direct experience. Find the self that would have doubts.

Thought is very cunning in thought it will say "I have doubts." It's not to say they should be shoved down, but rather it is a story about a me that has doubts which don't exist in direct experience.

[codyjdennis]

Just pointing that out. I don't want to leave this dialogue with you with any lingering doubts.

Always throw the "I" back into questioning. Look for in direct experience. See it's non-existence again and again for yourself.

It is the most powerful tool.

[blackfoot332]

Yes, direct experience. I was able to have that again for a few moments last night, again through hearing. And then I tried again and again but did not seem able to hear what was happening at the present moment, I could only experience memories of what just happened a moment ago. But those few moments of direct experience did assure me again that during conscious/aware experience of the present moment, there is no self, there is just the contents of consciousness, in other words or there is just immersion in the experience. So I will try to crack into experiencing the present moment again, looking online for meditation suggestions if I get frustrated by unfruitful effort.

[codyjdennis]

But those few moments of direct experience did assure me again that during conscious/aware experience of the present moment, there is no self, there is just the contents of consciousness, in other words or there is just immersion in the experience.

YES YES YES :)


It is not an unfruitful effort. Things are just made to be more complicated than they need to be. I am ALL about simplicity if there is a willingness to stick to the simplicity by you.

The most essential question is always IS THERE or IS THERE NOT a self. It's a yes or no question.

Thinking is NOT direct experience.

Direct Experience is the senses as I've said. Seeing, Hearing, Tasting, Touching, Smelling.

Best,
Cody