The Gate

Philip Newell

Hi Philip,

A warm welcome to LU. I'd be happy to guide you if you are happy for me to do so.

If you'd like to go ahead maybe you could tell me what brought you to LU and what you're expectations are.

Scott

Hi Scott,
Thank you for offering to assist me, I accept wholeheartly your kind offer. I had an awakening 3 years ago which led me to a 5 day retreat in london 2 weeks ago and that moved me into questioning the self. I then heard about a woman Unmani and from her website I learned about LU. My expectation in this moment is to look.

Ok Philip,

Just a few technical things to get out of the way before we start.

Please read the LU disclaimer here: http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

And there are a few guidelines to this process that I would like you to follow:

1. You agree to post at least once a day. if you cannot post, or need more time, let me know.

2. In general, I will ask the questions for you to respond to.

3. Responses require your utmost honesty.

4. Responses are best from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Longwinded
analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.

5. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this investigation.
Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and
essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.

6. Please learn to use the quote function; instructions are located in the link below this line:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

If you agree to the above we can get started as soon as possible.

Scott

Thanks Scott, I agree to all of the above. Regards Philip

My expectation in this moment is to look.

So what comes up for you when you look? Is there a self that you can find? what do you find?

No self.

Ok, so describe what comes up for you when you look.

The thought of looking , then quietness.

Ok Philip, Let's try this from a different angle. Please understand that I am a guide, not a teacher. I have nothing to teach you. So let's use an analogy, I sort of like analogies:

Let's suppose that you're in London and you want to go to the zoo. You come online and you ask for a guide to help you get there. That's me. Now before I can guide you, I need to know where you are. Otherwise how do I know which direction to point you in? Maybe you have only ever read about the zoo. Maybe you had an animal experience once before and it got you interested in zoos. Maybe you actually found the zoo but can't find it again without a nudge. Or maybe you know exactly where the zoo is and feel that you don't actually need a guide. What I need to know is where you are in relation to this pesky zoo.

So let's start over. Tell me more about this awakening that you experienced. Tell me what your direct experience of no self is. How does it feel. What is there if there isn't a self. What are your expectations of the LU process? What do you think will change if you have yet to realise no self. What has changed since you realised no self? Feel free to be slightly more expansive this time.

Cheers,

Scott

Tell me more about this awakening that you experienced.

I am in my sixties and have read alot of spiritual books and have taught Yoga and a few other modalities in the last 20years or so. About 3 years ago an event occured which brought me to a terrified state, I gradually came out of this and then decided to go to a Journey Practitioner which entailed peeling back layers of fear. As i sat in these fears I had an awareness of total peace and silence. I knew I was not the body. Since then awareness has expanded that I know there is nothing to do or to get. I went to a 5 day silent retreat in London where the teacher pointed to the nothing before the I am and this prodded towards this forum. Having read some of the forum topics I am drawn to enquire more as awareness expands.

Tell me what your direct experience of no self is.

Emptiness...no feeling just empitness

What is there if there is no self.

Awareness

What are your expectations of the LU process?

My expectation of this dialogue is for clarity and as this is being written clarity is already here.

What do you think will change if you have yet to realise no self.

Nothing...except more awareness of what is happening or not happening.

What has changed since you realised no self.

As above and doing less and the body feeling peaceful.

Thanks

Philip

Thank you for that Philip.

I'm on the road now until late Tuesday, so may not be able to reply to posts immediately.

Incidentally, to use the quote function, click on the "Quote" button. This will insert two quote commands in square brackets. Insert your text between the two middle brackets like so, " ] blah blah [ ".

My expectation of this dialogue is for clarity and as this is being written clarity is already here.

This suggests that you have no need for further discussion. Would this be true?

I am drawn to enquire more as awareness expands.

Who is it that is drawn to enquire more?

What do you mean by "Awareness"? What is your experience of it? Describe it as fully as you can.

If there is emptiness, what happens to the mind and the ego?

Where do thoughts come from and are you able to control them??

-Scott

This suggests that you have no need for further discussion. Would this be true?

No, clarity comes and goes.

[quoteWho is it that is drawn to enquire more?][/quote]

The I am

What do you mean by "Awareness"? What is your experience of it? Describe it as fully as you can

Awareness is observing whats happening or not happening. I am aware that the body is eating a biscuit as this dialogue is being expressed ( written).

If there is emptiness, what happens to the mind and the ego?

I dont know there is just empitness

Where do thoughts come from and are you able to control them??

Thoughts come from the mind, No just observe them.

Thanks Scott for your patience.

Philip

No worries Philip. No worries :)

So, some more questions for you, to see if we can narrow things down a little bit.

What or who is this “I am” that you talk of?
Where is it located?
When you look, can you see this “I am”?
Can you feel it?

Awareness is observing whats happening or not happening.

Is this “I am” different from the “Awareness” that is observing stuff happening or not happening? If it is please answer the same four questions as above.

I am aware that the body is eating a biscuit as this dialogue is being expressed ( written).

Is this “I am” different from the “I” that is aware that the body is eating biscuits? If it is please answer the same four questions as above. BTW, there is great enjoyment of biscuits here. Dunking in coffee with Garibaldis happens a lot.

I dont know there is just emptiness

Is this “I am” different from the “emptiness” that is just there? If it is please answer the same four questions as above.

Thoughts come from the mind

Do thoughts really come from the mind? Where is the mind? What does it look like? What is the mind?
What or who observes the thoughts that arise?

And lastly: Who or what is patient?

What I want you to do is really look at this thoroughly. No one-word answers. One-word answers are like candles in the mist. Take your time. There is all the time in the world. If it takes more than one session, then so be it.

Scott

What or who is this “I am” that you talk of?

The "I am" referred to above was the personal "me" being identified with, but whats happening now is that when looked for this " I am" cannot be found ,it does not exist. Frustration is happening now trying to keep out the word "I am" from this dialogue when it is known that it does not exist !!!!

Where is it located?

Nowhere, it does not exist.

When you look, can you see this “I am”?

Ther is no "me" to look, there is just looking, and when looking occurs this sense of emptiness is there.

Can you feel it?

As above there is no me to feel it, if feelings happen they are felt in the body.

Is this “I am” different from the “Awareness” that is observing stuff happening or not happening?

The "I am" does not exist.

Is this “I am” different from the “I” that is aware that the body is eating biscuits?

As above. The body eating a biscuit is happening, there is no "I" aware. There is a sense now that life is happening without the "me" and a sense of a presence( not personal) that is ever present and also more relaxation about the daily happenings.

Is this “I am” different from the “emptiness” that is just there?

The "I am" does not exist. When looking for the "I" emptiness is always there wherever "there" is.

Do thoughts really come from the mind? Where is the mind? What does it look like?

No thoughts come and go, they are happening. There is no mind just another thought about "I" having a mind

[quoteWhat or who observes the thoughts that arise?][/quote]

The emptiness.

And lastly: Who or what is patient?

Nobody, patience is happening.

regards

Philip