Reality

[tonka]

Hello, I am looking for a guide to see reality as it is. I've been reading Eckhart Tolle and the writings of Ciaran Healy online which piqued my curiosity for this. Looking to see what the truth that everyone here is talking about. I have some ideas of what it may be like, but I think I need help.

[Faraday]

Hello Tonka, I'm Mike and i would like to be your guide.

To start, can you tell me about what you expect from 'seeing reality'? Are you not seeing reality right now? What do you think will happen after you see it? Why do you want it? Why do you want it?

[tonka]

To start, can you tell me about what you expect from 'seeing reality'? Are you not seeing reality right now? What do you think will happen after you see it? Why do you want it? Why do you want it?

I expect some sort of subtle shift.. a new way.. a more peaceful way. this is my perception from hearing the works of Tolle and others.. some sort of profundity that makes more sense.

I suppose I am seeing reality now.. but its clouded by my mind.


I think I will take things less personally, possibly be more focused, feel less stressed to be "someone"


I want it, honstly, because I want freedom from the mind.

[Faraday]

Good to see that your expectations are realistic.

I suppose I am seeing reality now.. but its clouded by my mind.

Is your mind not part of reality? How can taking away a part of reality make it more real?

I want it, honstly, because I want freedom from the mind.

Is the thing that wants freedom from the mind not just more mind? If not, then what is it?

[tonka]

s your mind not part of reality? How can taking away a part of reality make it more real?

I suppose it is so... but mind does not seem tangible. This is a sticking point for me. mind does not seem "real". if me and a person sit in a room and I am thinking, the contents of my mind do not exist for them.. but do seem to exist for me.

Is the thing that wants freedom from the mind not just more mind? If not, then what is it?

yes... you are correct. what purpose does this desire for freedom serve? Do those who have seen through the illusion still experience these things

[Faraday]

I suppose it is so... but mind does not seem tangible. This is a sticking point for me. mind does not seem "real". if me and a person sit in a room and I am thinking, the contents of my mind do not exist for them.. but do seem to exist for me.

Ok, so you're sitting in a room with someone, what would be the reality at that moment? There's the seeing of the room and the person, the hearing of any sounds, the feeling of the chair, etc. Is what is inside the other persons head reality at that moment? Are his/her thoughts part of the experience? Are the thoughts about the other persons thoughts a part of the expierence?
If the mind is not tangible, then an untangible mind is also experienced, right?

yes... you are correct. what purpose does this desire for freedom serve? Do those who have seen through the illusion still experience these things

Which things do you mean?
It is not about becoming free, it is about the realization of the freedom that has always been there. Thoughts cannot harm you because there is nothing to harm except other thoughts. Are you free from the voice talking on the radio? If yes, why are you not free from the voice talking in the head?

Tell me where you stand exactly. What do you think a self is? what do you see when you look for one? What are the problems?

[tonka]

Ok, so you're sitting in a room with someone, what would be the reality at that moment? There's the seeing of the room and the person, the hearing of any sounds, the feeling of the chair, etc. Is what is inside the other persons head reality at that moment? Are his/her thoughts part of the experience? Are the thoughts about the other persons thoughts a part of the expierence?
If the mind is not tangible, then an untangible mind is also experienced, right?

I guess moreso I mean that the fictions of my mind, interpretations, thoughts about whatever aren't necessarily true or shared.

Another persons thoughts aren't part of my experience... and mine not of theirs

It is not about becoming free, it is about the realization of the freedom that has always been there. Thoughts cannot harm you because there is nothing to harm except other thoughts. Are you free from the voice talking on the radio? If yes, why are you not free from the voice talking in the head?

Tell me where you stand exactly. What do you think a self is? what do you see when you look for one? What are the problems?

im not sure why Im not "free" from the voice tlaking in the head. I feel like I'm at the mercy of thoughts and my mind. I'm pretty much perpetually wrapped up in my mind and its thoughts

i'm not sure what a self is.. its almost like there is a sensation that says "yes of course there is a self" when I look for a self I just get bombarded with thoughts and feelings

[Faraday]

I guess moreso I mean that the fictions of my mind, interpretations, thoughts about whatever aren't necessarily true or shared.

Do thoughts have to be true to be part of reality?

im not sure why Im not "free" from the voice tlaking in the head. I feel like I'm at the mercy of thoughts and my mind. I'm pretty much perpetually wrapped up in my mind and its thoughts

i'm not sure what a self is.. its almost like there is a sensation that says "yes of course there is a self" when I look for a self I just get bombarded with thoughts and feelings

Who or what is at the mercy of thoughts? What gets bombarded by thoughts and feelings? Look!

[tonka]

Do thoughts have to be true to be part of reality?

no.. I guess not. they can exist here as an impulse or experience without having to be true

Who or what is at the mercy of thoughts? What gets bombarded by thoughts and feelings? Look!

well... I guess I feel like its "me" that is at the mercy of thoughts. I intellectually understand that there is no "me" to which they are attached. but I feel like its "my thoughts" "happening to ME" "I'm getting bombarded"

[Faraday]

well... I guess I feel like its "me" that is at the mercy of thoughts. I intellectually understand that there is no "me" to which they are attached. but I feel like its "my thoughts" "happening to ME" "I'm getting bombarded"

Thats why i said 'look'. You can't think your way out of this, you can only look. What happens when you look? What do you see?

[tonka]

hats why i said 'look'. You can't think your way out of this, you can only look. What happens when you look? What do you see?

I knew this was coming haha this is a trouble spot for me. I cannot seem to get out of the intellectual drama. when I try to "look" is when the fears show. "what will happen if I see this" "will I lose my personality, my opinions, my desires, goals" "will I become a bad person" there is also a fear of losing my imagination. my personal life is often swept in day dreams and fantasy. I fear I will lose the desire to write stories, I fear I will lose the detailed music in my mind, the beautiful scenery and dialogues I have with "characters" in my mind. I also fear that in looking I will alienate myself from others/ people will think I have become weird, someone who has lost their mind


I am curious though, and this curiosity is what wants me to see the experience as others have seen it. The question "how do I know that all my fears have grounding" comes up . how does one stop thinking and go into direct experience

I'm uncertain what is being asked when I'm being asked to look. how do I look? With my eyes I can see a lot of things but the mind persists. Its as if the mind is a lens for all other things. I get frustrated that I cannot seem to "look" as I've been encouraged many times

[Faraday]

I knew this was coming haha this is a trouble spot for me. I cannot seem to get out of the intellectual drama. when I try to "look" is when the fears show. "what will happen if I see this" "will I lose my personality, my opinions, my desires, goals" "will I become a bad person" there is also a fear of losing my imagination. my personal life is often swept in day dreams and fantasy. I fear I will lose the desire to write stories, I fear I will lose the detailed music in my mind, the beautiful scenery and dialogues I have with "characters" in my mind. I also fear that in looking I will alienate myself from others/ people will think I have become weird, someone who has lost their mind

You won't lose or gain anything, nothing will change. You won't lose a self because that self was never there to begin with. Your mind will try to find reasons not to go on because it is terrified of the idea of not being real. Just remember, it isn't about killing the self or the ego or the mind, it is about seeing that they are not and never were 'you'.

I am curious though, and this curiosity is what wants me to see the experience as others have seen it. The question "how do I know that all my fears have grounding" comes up . how does one stop thinking and go into direct experience

That's a big misconception. Thoughts a not going to stop coming, they are part of reality. Thought isn't an enemy, it's just noise the brain makes, sometimes useful, sometimes not. Don't try to exclude thoughts from reality, the experience of them is very much real, it's just that the contents of thought have nothing to say about reality. Reality can only be seen, not imagined. Direct experience is already being experienced, right now.

I'm uncertain what is being asked when I'm being asked to look. how do I look? With my eyes I can see a lot of things but the mind persists. Its as if the mind is a lens for all other things. I get frustrated that I cannot seem to "look" as I've been encouraged many times

With 'look' i mean pointing attention to it. For sense perception we can use the words: looking, feeling, tasting, smelling and hearing, but for percieving the mind the best word we have is 'looking'.

Its as if the mind is a lens for all other things.

Is the mind a lens, or just like anything, an object seen through a lens? Is there even a lens? If a lens is seen, isn't it just another experienced object?

[tonka]

I'm not sure I understand why I am not getting the looking aspect of this...

Is the mind a lens, or just like anything, an object seen through a lens? Is there even a lens? If a lens is seen, isn't it just another experienced object?

I'm not really sure.. sometimes I don't know if i comprehend what the mind is. describing it as a lens makes sense but not when I realize it doesn't exist. The mind isn't something I can point out in reality.

[Faraday]

I'm not sure I understand why I am not getting the looking aspect of this...

That's because you're trying to understand what looking is. It's not a technique or a method, you already know how to look, you've been doing it your whole life.

I'm not really sure.. sometimes I don't know if i comprehend what the mind is. describing it as a lens makes sense but not when I realize it doesn't exist. The mind isn't something I can point out in reality.

It doesn't matter if you can comprehend it, all you have to do is look at it. Can you still listen to someone speaking an unknown language? You might not be able to understand what is said but you can still listen to it and hear the words.

[tonka]

Hello for some reason LU was not working for me yesterday

It doesn't matter if you can comprehend it, all you have to do is look at it. Can you still listen to someone speaking an unknown language? You might not be able to understand what is said but you can still listen to it and hear the words.

your analogy of unknown language makes sense..

I can't seem to see the lie for what it is, I feel stuck..

where should I be going next?