Ready for a guide

[alexmcca]

Hello. I would love a guide to help me.

I have been looking through the information on this site for the last couple of days and going through the exercises and looking, looking. I was reading a recent thread here and there was something that seemed to push me into noticing and laughing a little. It was about how 'decisions' are just there and a few seconds later they are "claimed" by an "I" thought.... I can sense the difference between "I see the computer" and "seeing".... I can notice the "I" thoughts arising. However, "I don't believe"!! that something has really been seen. I can sense "me" so strongly ... as a feeling in the head and it pulls "me" in.

Part of what drew me to this site is that I work as a Practitioner with clients. A premise of my work is that "thoughts are not real" and our "story" is just a "story". However, something about the work I do has never seemed 'logical'. We say our story is just a story "so why not make up a great one and live a great life". The techniques I use work to reimprint memory and what is held inside the "unconscious"... so basically our story is then different and we are no longer triggered into difficult reactions etc.

However, it seems to me that if the story is not real... well, then, that's it! What else needs to be "known" and by "whom"? To then spend your life re-writing the story at every opportunity seems crazy!? I mean it would be like finally realizing Santa Claus is not real and that being the catalyst for then spending the rest of "your" life rewriting the story of Santa Claus until he is the best and most amazing Santa Claus ever... well, ok, if you enjoy creative writing, but otherwise, why? What is more likely is that the focus is naturally not so much on Santa anymore... the Santa story is still "known" and he may be mentioned now and then ... but he doesn't really "matter" anymore? ... well, he isn't "matter" lol ( oh dear, bad joke).

I feel like something is happening and I would love to keep the momentum going now. Thank you so much.

[tryfailtry]

Greetings Alex!

My name is Maunee (I'm a male)- We have rather unisex names :)


I would be delighted to be your guide!


Before we officially get this party started, I need to line up a few things on my end- but it will be swift....until then

you say

I feel like something is happening and I would love to keep the momentum going now. Thank you so much.

Can you describe these feelings a bit more- just write whatever comes.... who is having these feelings?



Also there are a few ground rules we play by over here that I need you to sign off on.....


1. Post at least once a day, if you cannot post, or need more time, let me know (I will do the same)
2. Be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.
3. Answer from personal experience only.
4. Read the disclaimer on the Liberation Unleashed main page - http://www.liberationunleashed.com/

I will be guiding you, I'm not teaching or preaching here. So the more you put in, the more you get out!

If you are happy to agree to the above, let me know and we can begin!


Warm Regards

[alexmcca]

Hello Maunee!

Thank you so much. (I am a female!)

I agree to all the ground rules and I have read the disclaimer.

I feel like something is happening and I would love to keep the momentum going now. Thank you so much.

Can you describe these feelings a bit more- just write whatever comes.... who is having these feelings?

It is like Alex and her story are more like a dream. Which is like... being and noticing Alex and her story as a thought.... and then another thought comes - "I am good at deceiving myself though!". The feelings are being more aware of the body walking and of sensations in the body .... as just being .... and at those times there isn't anyone having those feelings.

When I was investigating earlier 'where is the self'.... there was a very strong felt sense in the head - such a strong feeling and as I focused there it became so strong, such a weight and pushing feeling. Then there was some sense of it instead being energy and just the feeling of life..... flowing... not a "bad" feeling at all. Sort of a laugh. It had been like the "self" was my eyeballs, my head, my brain, or a "sense" like a cloak around my head. I can't seem to find that now.

hmm!

[alexmcca]

And then for example..... something just happened and I was asked if I would like to go to an event over the weekend. I was right "in" the physical reactions ... there is the thought that "I" don't really want to do anything this weekend, followed by feelings and then labels of emotion. I can see now (5 minutes later) that that was the sequence of "events". I don't expect these things (thoughts, sensations) to change (immediately anyway) when I have seen through "self", but I guess I do expect the experience of it would be more like "watching a movie", whereas it felt very much like "I" was "in" it - experiencing the thoughts and feelings like they are reality.

[tryfailtry]

Great!

Lets get down to it.

From reading your intro and responses it seems rather clear we can hit the ground running here, but don't take it personal if I ask for clarification or elaboration on certain points. We work together here :)

Also -remember when writing lengthy responses- which is certainly encouraged if so inclined- save frequently- or perhaps copy and paste into MS word or something of that nature. I don't care who or what you are- losing 'work' is no fun :)

A premise of my work is that "thoughts are not real" and our "story" is just a "story". However, something about the work I do has never seemed 'logical'.

Elaborate on this please...what doesn't seem logical about it? What does it feel like when you are in practice with your patients?


Second, please tell me:
What are you looking for?
What do you think should be different than what it is now /and how do you propose you would change that?
What are your expectations in general?
What do you perhaps not want to happen?
What do you expect liberation to be/feel like?

Also, tell me what comes up when it is read that there is absolutely no 'you' in any way, shape or form, nor has there ever been, nor will there ever be?


Feel free to intertwine how you ended up here- or where you are on your 'path'


Also- if you notice the momentum of our conversation suddenly stops- don't fret- I never know where I'll end up with work etc- but I will be as attentive and available as I can.

[tryfailtry]

And then for example..... something just happened and I was asked if I would like to go to an event over the weekend. I was right "in" the physical reactions ... there is the thought that "I" don't really want to do anything this weekend, followed by feelings and then labels of emotion. I can see now (5 minutes later) that that was the sequence of "events". I don't expect these things (thoughts, sensations) to change (immediately anyway) when I have seen through "self", but I guess I do expect the experience of it would be more like "watching a movie", whereas it felt very much like "I" was "in" it - experiencing the thoughts and feelings like they are reality.

"something just happened"- good!-- look at this! What made it happen then?

you say "When I have seen through 'self.." ------ what do you expect will see through this? are you implying there is currently a 'self' and something else that will see through it? Take notice where your thoughts are coming from when you begin to answer.

[tryfailtry]

Also- we share crossover in our jobs- so don't feel the need the censor yourself or replace words- I'll know what you mean- and if I don't -I'll ask.

[alexmcca]

Thanks so much for your time on this.

This is a response to your first questions.

A premise of my work is that "thoughts are not real" and our "story" is just a "story". However, something about the work I do has never seemed 'logical'.

Elaborate on this please...what doesn't seem logical about it? What does it feel like when you are in practice with your patients?

That part of what I said seem 100% good. Our story is just a story, not real. The part that does not seem logical is that what I then do with my clients is help them re-imprint (change) memory/unconscious emotional learnings ie: write a new story. While that is great... (these are wonderful techniques and very effective) it seems to me that "people" would benefit most from first *really* seeing that the story is not real... well - that there is no "them" to own the story - and then, is it really necessary to re-write a story, that is already known to be a fiction?

I can see that the tools I use may still be useful - and even helpful in this process - but if we focus immediately on rewriting the story, it seems to be reinforcing the idea that there is an "I" that needs to have a story. (phew!).

Second, please tell me:
What are you looking for?

I want to say all sorts of "appropriate" things. However, what feels true right now is that I want to know if this is an ultimate "seeing" that would then change how I approach the work I do with people (and "myself"). "I" worry that I could be reinforcing something unhelpful with "myself" and my clients.

I'm looking for flow. I have experienced that in the past - sometimes when writing, sometimes when drawing. I would like that to be the predominant experience....

There is definitely still a sense of hoping that "seeing" clearly would mean there was no "I" to get caught up in fear and worry about obligations I believe I have - to do certain things and do them in a certain way. This is a sticking point. When going through the tasks on the site, a thought kept "popping up" - "but you'll still have to do a, b or c". I tried to look at - "is there a 'me', thinking that thought?" and "is there a 'me' who would have to do it".

What do you think should be different than what it is now /and how do you propose you would change that?

What I said above.
I think life would flow. Seem natural and vibrant. I think feelings that come up in "reaction" to external triggers would be experienced differently.... maybe like noticing the emotion, but it would pass quickly and not be built on by further thoughts of "I am scared of this", "I don't like this"... that are then believed and result in more feelings labelled as emotions and on and on and on. (argh!).

What are your expectations in general?

What I said above. There would be experience and all experience would be just that.... not labelled good or bad... but life being lived and a sense of appreciation for that. Not sure who is supposed to be feeling the appreciation!

What do you perhaps not want to happen?

I don't want to give up on this and just let this slide away. I don't want to NOT *really* look and just sort of "play" at looking. But it is hard to really look. I don't want to still feel really bad about certain things and believe it is real!! That last sentence makes me laugh, but it came out of my head.

What do you expect liberation to be/feel like?

Probably said above. Just not caught up with a ficticious story. Not having "I" stuck to everything..... But I expect (or hope) that will feel a lot better. Maybe there is a sticking point here.

Also, tell me what comes up when it is read that there is absolutely no 'you' in any way, shape or form, nor has there ever been, nor will there ever be?

Didn't like that before. Now, what comes up is that it makes sense. It just is, as it is.... all as it is. "you" is just a concept, not a thing. It is a collection of thoughts, images, sensations and then another thought -- "you". Then a little thought "pops up" - "no, you haven't really got it, you are missing something". lol.

Thankyou. I will reply to the next question.

[alexmcca]

And then for example..... something just happened and I was asked if I would like to go to an event over the weekend. I was right "in" the physical reactions ... there is the thought that "I" don't really want to do anything this weekend, followed by feelings and then labels of emotion. I can see now (5 minutes later) that that was the sequence of "events". I don't expect these things (thoughts, sensations) to change (immediately anyway) when I have seen through "self", but I guess I do expect the experience of it would be more like "watching a movie", whereas it felt very much like "I" was "in" it - experiencing the thoughts and feelings like they are reality.

"something just happened"- good!-- look at this! What made it happen then?

Yeah - it just happened! And feelings were just there and thoughts were just there.... it was all just there and it was like it was just there before any "I" could do anything about it ... cos I guess the thought "I" was coming a bit later :-)

you say "When I have seen through 'self.." ------ what do you expect will see through this? are you implying there is currently a 'self' and something else that will see through it? Take notice where your thoughts are coming from when you begin to answer.

Yes. It was like keeping an "I" alive to be the thing that sees through the "I". "I" will see through "I". It is a thought loop..... "my" head hurts!

[tryfailtry]

Give me a little to read over your answers- but at glance - they are lovely and your eagerness is palpable. Who's head is hurting ?:).......... In the meantime. Quick brain game. Think of a basketball- did you choose the image that popped up in the mind?.........see if you can locate the decision maker who decided to make the ball look a certain way.

You answers are facing in the right direction.

[alexmcca]

Thanks so much. I am in the UK... and it is dinner time now.

I will write again tomorrow. But very quickly... yes, there was an image of a basketball before any "I" showed up. I think part of where I've been 'struggling' is that I work with *changing* what is held in the unconscious mind - as a job! So there is some kind of loop here for me.... yes, the image just shows up... but I also know I could probably work with my "unconscious" to re-imprint stuff around basketball and then be pretty sure a different version of a basketball could be "expected" to then spontaneously show up. So some agency/control is now involved IN the spontaneity ... making it "seem"... well, not spontaneous but under "my" control again.

Sure none of that makes any difference -- really sure -- it just seems to be a loop for me right now. I will "look" at it again later.

Thank you!

[tryfailtry]

You are most welcome- my pleasure.... there are no right or wrong answers- I will work with you til you see 'it'- and I know the 'loop' you are referring to- I used the same terminology during my own guidance. We may or may not have to address that- either way- you are doing great- enjoy your dinner! - and don't hesitate to just come here and post random thoughts- whatever you need- don't find the urge. I understand.

[tryfailtry]

don't fight* the urge- damn you fingers

[tryfailtry]

I want to say all sorts of "appropriate" things. However, what feels true right now is that I want to know if this is an ultimate "seeing" that would then change how I approach the work I do with people (and "myself"). "I" worry that I could be reinforcing something unhelpful with "myself" and my clients

There are no 'appropriate answers'- this isn't about what you think I want to hear- this is for you- so don't be afraid to say what comes up- 100% honesty is required and so far you don't show any signs of not knowing that. Whether you are doing something unhelpful or not is irrelevant- what is relevant is what is doing it- and what worries? Did you choose to worry about whether or not you are helping them? Just look- and when I say look- I'm asking you to locate the "whatever it is" that is choosing these thoughts and feelings? If confusion comes up- look...fear...look. Can you find the reader of these words right now?

I'm looking for flow. I have experienced that in the past - sometimes when writing, sometimes when drawing. I would like that to be the predominant experience....

Describe this flow- and notice if there is something or someone coming up with what you think this 'flow' will feel or look like. And when writing or drawing- find what is making the pen move- if a 'sense' of a doer pops up- where did that sense come from? Heck- you want the flow to be the dominant experience- well then what wants that? You don't need to answer every single question here- just answer as you see fit for now.

I think life would flow. Seem natural and vibrant. I think feelings that come up in "reaction" to external triggers would be experienced differently.... maybe like noticing the emotion, but it would pass quickly and not be built on by further thoughts of "I am scared of this", "I don't like this"... that are then believed and result in more feelings labelled as emotions and on and on and on. (argh!).

Do you really have to think about your likes and dislikes? Or maybe you just know? Music- do you put on music you don't like in hopes that eventually you will like it?- And maybe you had favorite songs that you once loved- that now annoy you- Do you need to really know why you don't like it anymore- or perhaps you just know you don't- so where did the choice to like or not like come from then? Simply put- what is responsible for your likes and dislikes? Put on a song you love and follow the process from choosing it to playing it- what song comes up in your head (did you choose the way it sounds in there/did you choose what came up?)- see if you can find the listener? Let me know what you experience with this

I don't want to give up on this and just let this slide away. I don't want to NOT *really* look and just sort of "play" at looking. But it is hard to really look. I don't want to still feel really bad about certain things and believe it is real!! That last sentence makes me laugh, but it came out of my head.

Who is going to give up? How does one give up? When you say I don't want to give up - what does this refer to in direct experience?- Describe this I- does it have a shape? A size? Color? Anything you can find let me know

[alexmcca]

Hello

Thank you for the reply and questions. I have been looking.

Did you choose to worry about whether or not you are helping them? Just look- and when I say look- I'm asking you to locate the "whatever it is" that is choosing these thoughts and feelings? If confusion comes up- look...fear...look. Can you find the reader of these words right now?

I have looked at "whatever it is" that is choosing thoughts, or liking or disliking something, or "worrying". Also, the sense of a "doer" where did that come from.... "what" is it that wants something to be different. "who" is going to give up.

I can't find anything substantial. I just find a thought, an image, a sensation. No tangible "I" or "who" or "me". But such a quick succession of thoughts, images and sensations that it seems to weave a strong sense of something tangible, that isn't...

When you say I don't want to give up - what does this refer to in direct experience?- Describe this I- does it have a shape? A size? Color? Anything you can find let me know

In direct experience this "I" is a strong felt sense... sensations located in the back, shoulders, neck, head, eyeballs... it has a shape - takes in part of the backbone and the brain, but stops there. It "seems" like the size of this area in the actual body, but then the feeling seems to be around my head too. Very strong sensation. Feels very "embedded"... very "this is ME!!!". It is a feeling and an image of it.