Tired of the path. Looking for a guide to conclude it!

[Frho]

I'm looking for a guide with some experience. I found this site strangely enough after asking whatever is out there for divine knowledge. I unwittingly started a journey into consciousness a few years ago in 2008 after I was divorced and was thrown into the chaos of my own dilusions and fabrications without knowing that they were. I thought I was depressed and tried all the antidepressents, counseling, coaching and when that didn't help, neurofeedback, EFT, kinesiology and some other alternative forms of treatments. Then when that didn't work, I went to Peru and drank ayahuasca, which before I understood it, slammed me into a path of consciousness. I thought I was going crazy for a while because I didn't know what was happening and tried to continue defining things the way I always had and trying to make this shift I was going through fit into it. Over the course of the last few years, I've come to realize that I was existing within a structure of beliefs and definitions that I had constructed and defined myself and "reality" by. I understand that its an illusion, I've even had moments... millisecond flashes of realization that made me realize that I'm in a dream and waking up is what I've been moving to all along, but am seduced back into the definitions and constructions and want to wake up. Ever feel like your dreaming, know you're dreaming but can't wake up? I'm ready to be guided!

Thanks so much for this site and the dedicated people on it!

I've read the disclaimer and watched the video. I'm also now reading the gateless gatecrashers book.

[Coffee]

Hi,

I am not an experienced guider. However, I believe I can point to what you're looking for. If you'd like me to be your guide, let me know.

It would be nice to have one of the "experienced guiders" perhaps dual guide, or watch over this thread while I am guiding.

If you would like to start, answer this question for me please:

What do you expect from this process? How do you expect to feel? What changes do you expect from liberation?

[Frho]

Hi Coffee,
Thank you for responding to my post. I asked for an experienced guide because of fear that I wouldn't "get it" unless it was someone with experience. I imagine that that doesn't have to be true. Just me acting in the fear.

what do you expect from this process?

My expectation is to be liberated from the stories that play out in my mind consciously and unconsciously. To be free especially from the feeling that my life is not what I want and the fear and confusion that comes in when I think about what it is I can want. Catatonic confusion comes in and a distrust that what I think and say and what I am capable of doing.

How do you expect to feel?

There was a moment about 15 years ago. I just got finished jogging and I was laying in the grass looking up at the sky through trees framing it and a feeling came over me that everything was ok. There wasn't a care or worry in the world. It was a moment of profound quiet. Nothing had to be done. It was freedom.

What changes do you expect from liberation?

These are surprisingly difficult questions for me to place into words! ...my expectations from liberation? Confidence comes to mind. I've been sitting here stuck in what that means to me and why it comes to mind.

Confidence to me here is like a deep knowing that transcends any doubt. It's like a feeling that something in me vaguely remembers is true where there is no cogitation and reasoning or analyzing. No planning or strategizing or fantasizing. No worrying or fear. None of these are even present in the space. There's just being and playing organically in the moment with what's really there.

I'm not sure if I got it fully described. Hopefully it's a good place to start. Thanks again, Coffee.

[Coffee]

There was a moment about 15 years ago. I just got finished jogging and I was laying in the grass looking up at the sky through trees framing it and a feeling came over me that everything was ok. There wasn't a care or worry in the world. It was a moment of profound quiet. Nothing had to be done. It was freedom.

Ok, the expectation that this realization will allow you to know "nothing has to be done" is not unrealistic. As long as you are not expecting some constant state of bliss or ecstasy.

Yes, liberation will leave you with deep knowing that transcends any doubt. There is nothing you can not know. However, let's not try to conceptualize this, I will just point for you to look and ask you questions so you see for yourself. I don't want you to believe what I say, you need the knowing from looking yourself.

No planning or strategizing or fantasizing. No worrying or fear. None of these are even present in the space. There's just being and playing organically in the moment with what's really there.

There is a bit of poetry in here. However, I just want to remind you that this guiding process will not lead you to somewhere that the thoughts (voice you hear "inside your head") will cease to chatter about worrying/fearful thoughts. This guiding is to show you the thoughts are utterly meaningless, and there is nothing to fear or worry about.

Here are a few questions to start:

Are you the author of your thoughts? Or in other words, can you create a thought before you are aware of it?

Are you in control of your body?

[Coffee]

I would recommend not having any expectations. There is nothing new being shown here. What is being pointed to has always been here, it is very simple and only takes one second to look honestly. If you are ready to look, you will see. I am pointing you to the only thing that you know.

I would also like to ask one more question. What is wrong with this that is?

[Frho]

Are you the author of your thoughts? In other words can you create a thought before you are aware of it?

No. When I become aware of a thought it's already in full swing. In fact, there are a lot of other thoughts already going that I'm not even aware of. The thoughts are always on, a constant multi-thought stream and I can watch it, or be lost in it, living them out like they're real.

Are you in control of your body?

It depends. I can lift a finger or walk it. But it carries on a ton of functions I don't control such as cardiac, hormonal, pulmonary, parasympathetic and a host of others.

What is wrong with this that is?

I'm not clear on what you mean by this question. If you mean what is wrong with having expectations I can see why it hinders me and could even keep me from recognizing the truth if it was shoved up my nose. I'd completely miss it being too busy looking for some delusion that would match my delusional expectations.

[Coffee]

No. When I become aware of a thought it's already in full swing. In fact, there are a lot of other thoughts already going that I'm not even aware of. The thoughts are always on, a constant multi-thought stream and I can watch it, or be lost in it, living them out like they're real.

This is an important point. There is nothing outside of you. There is no seperate self. You are all that there is. Now look, are there any thoughts that are going on that you are unaware of? Look honestly, is there anything going on that you are unaware of. Can you find anything that you know to be unaware of?

[Coffee]

It depends. I can lift a finger or walk it. But it carries on a ton of functions I don't control such as cardiac, hormonal, pulmonary, parasympathetic and a host of others.

Do you know that it is you that lifts or walks the finger? Look closely. If you believe it is you that moves the finger, explain to me how you know.

[Coffee]

I'm not clear on what you mean by this question. If you mean what is wrong with having expectations I can see why it hinders me and could even keep me from recognizing the truth if it was shoved up my nose. I'd completely miss it being too busy looking for some delusion that would match my delusional expectations.

To rephrase the question, what needs to be changed? Is there something wrong with this experience? Please be as honest and descriptive as possible.

[Frho]

Now look, are there any thoughts that are going on that you are unaware of? Look honestly, is there anything going on that you are unaware of. Can you find anything that you know to be unaware of?

When I really look, there can't be any thoughts that I am unaware of. What does show up is a fear that there may be an unconcious thought that I am unaware of driving my behavior or emotions. The fear is based in wanting to control all of my thoughts so that I can control all of my emotions in the hopes that I'll stop feeling anxious and afraid.

Do you know it is you that lifts or walks the finger. Look closely. If you believe it is you that moves the finger, explain to me how you know.

After reading what many people have written about this, intellectually I feel like I should say it's not me lifting the finger. But the I I'm identified with insists that I am lifting the finger. I think of the finger, I will it to move and it does. Who else could do it that way? Without me wanting or willing it to, it wouldn't move. Can you help me with this?

What needs to be changed? Is there something wrong with this experience? Please be as honest and descriptive as possible.

I'm still a little unclear by what you mean here. What do you refer to when you ask "this experience"? If you mean the experience of my expectations and where I perceive myself to be. Than what I feel needs to be changed is the way I feel a lot of the times. As I go through my life I find myself wanting to change my career, change my location, change my relationships, change my attitudes and beliefs, change my feelings, change my personality... that I'm not following the path that the authentic me is yearning for. The wanting to change these things is manifest from the belief I have that there is something wrong with the experience I am having and the "me" I believe I am now. Looking back at my history, I've never felt satisfied with where and who I was and what I was doing at any given moment. There was always a yearning. A searching. A belief that there was something more than what I was or who I was or how I was expressing it in work, relationships, family, location and on. It put me on many paths. I completed out a lot of the threads I thought would find me whatever it was I was looking for, I moved, I had a lots of stuff, I created a very successful career, but at the end they didn't do shit for me. It culminated to where I am now in looking into spirituality and consciousness. Always seeking but caught in a loop of always seeking. It's like a turd going around in circles in the toilet but never flushing down.

[Coffee]

Only thought says that you are in control of your finger. Only thought says there must be a controller or doer. Look and tell me if this is true.

Look closely and see when what is labelled as the body moves if there is an "I" doing it, or if there is only thought claiming this.

With no labeling by thoughts, could there ever be a problem with "this that is"?

I am pointing that you are not in control of your body any more than the wind or your thoughts. Look here at "this that is". Do you see only thought tells you of a controller? If you see this, remember you are not the author of your thoughts. So they are appearing on their own just like the rain/wind. Look at your thoughts as you look at the leaves falling off the tree, see they belong to no one.

One more very strong pointer, look at this without fear an don't expect anything magical or special to happen...

When in a "sleep dream", do you see that it is an illusion that the dream character is in control? Do you see that in a "sleep dream" there is only the dream, there is nothing that is outside of the dream, and the characters in the dream are no different or no more in control or aware than the trees, cars or spiders? Do you see the dream as one complete happening?

If you see this, how is "awake experience" any different, and how do you know this other than thoughts that you didn't author anymore than the direction of the wind?

-------

Ps. When I say "this that is", I am referring to everything that is here. Do you see that there is no past, there is no future, there is only now? Do you see that future and past only exist in thought and these thoughts about future and past only ever appear now?

It is this "now" that I am referring to as "this that is", it includes the sensations/picture/sound/thought that is happening now, without separation. In fact, "this that is" is all I am pointing to. You are all that is here, not just part of it, look. See this, it is what you are looking for.

Much love.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Frho]

I'm out of town with no time to post right now. Will continue tomorrow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Coffee]

Cool, I'll be here.

[Frho]

Look closely and see when what is labelled as the body moves if there is an "I" doing it, or if there is only thought claiming this.

I struggled with this all day yesterday. Forming arguments against it, scenarios where it could be proven wrong and then I realized that these were thoughts too. Then following the thread of thoughts on thoughts on thoughts to the I, is when I realized that the I can most certainly be just a thought. There's nowhere left to go there. Am I there? No because I'm sitting on the edge hitting a barrage of fear, resistance confusion and doubt. And then I can feel what its like. To not try to control my thoughts anymore... Whew... There's no I to control them. Thoughts are thoughts thinking thoughts. Doing exactly what they do.. Thoughting. There is no controller of thoughts. I is a thought. There is no I? Still sticking there. There's no I? Then who or what is observing the thoughts?

I was at a get together yesterday and there were a lot of people. Lately these past few years I've been very uncomfortable and drained being around people. But I was watching my thoughts and especially on the four hour drive back home when I could reflect on what my mind was doing. It was so quick to label the things people were saying or what I thought about them personally and what I was doing or how I was being. Like a stamp it was stamping thoughts and labels on everything at full speed in real time as it was happening. No wonder I get so drained by people! My mind was at full sprint labeling then reacting to the labels. Labeling what my thoughts were thinking they are labeling and labeling their labels and labeling my reactions to the labels then labeling my labels of their labeling of my labels. What a fucking chore. Much easier to be in this that is.

[Coffee]

I struggled with this all day yesterday. Forming arguments against it, scenarios where it could be proven wrong and then I realized that these were thoughts too. Then following the thread of thoughts on thoughts on thoughts to the I, is when I realized that the I can most certainly be just a thought. There's nowhere left to go there. Am I there? No because I'm sitting on the edge hitting a barrage of fear, resistance confusion and doubt. And then I can feel what its like. To not try to control my thoughts anymore... Whew... There's no I to control them. Thoughts are thoughts thinking thoughts. Doing exactly what they do.. Thoughting. There is no controller of thoughts. I is a thought. There is no I? Still sticking there. There's no I? Then who or what is observing the thoughts?

To say there is no "I", does not mean you don't exist. There is just no separate "I". You are all that is here.

Can you separate a thought from the knowing of it? A thought can't exists without the knower. And in the same way, a knower can't exist without a known.

The thought is not separate from the knowing of it. Look in direct experience, is there any knower, or is there any need for a knower? Or is that just a thought?

You say, "what is observing the thoughts?". Look at this question deeply. A few pointers:

- Does anything exist that you are not aware of? Or does only thought claim this? (Remember, you don't author your thoughts)

- Is there a difference between saying, "There is awareness of thoughts", and "I am aware of thoughts". Or "Thoughts are happening", than "I am thinking"?. How about "I am moving my hand", and "Hand is moving". Look.

- Is there a difference between observing thoughts and observing the wind?

I was at a get together yesterday and there were a lot of people. Lately these past few years I've been very uncomfortable and drained being around people. But I was watching my thoughts and especially on the four hour drive back home when I could reflect on what my mind was doing. It was so quick to label the things people were saying or what I thought about them personally and what I was doing or how I was being. Like a stamp it was stamping thoughts and labels on everything at full speed in real time as it was happening. No wonder I get so drained by people! My mind was at full sprint labeling then reacting to the labels.

Is it really draining? Or is it only thoughts labelling?

If you do not think your thoughts, how are they draining? Is it draining to blink and breathe, do breathing and blinking happen the same way as thinking? Look

What a fucking chore. Much easier to be in this that is.

Yes. Get with the fact there is no separate "thinker" or "doer", really look. Then what is left to do the chores? What is left to be drained?

One more question:

Is it possible to be anything other than "this that is"? Have you ever been anything other than "this that is"?