Mental Space-Science

[Space]

So, there's no self, eh? What is the point of seeing this?

[Ilona]

Let's say you are a kid and you believe that Santa is a real deal. Nice fantasy story. But time comes and you realise that this was a lie. Kid grows up, he sees what is real and what is imaginary.
So it's the same with the self.
Only belief in Santa is harmless for a little child.
Belief in separate entity self is the core of suffering for an adult. All depression, stress, desease comes from conflicting beliefs. Cleaning up the mind from lies and misinformation is beneficial, same way as it's good for computer to do maintenance and clean the system. System runs smoother.

But I'm not here to convince you, space, look for yourself and you'll see. Then you can give us a whole rant about what is the point. :)

[Space]

Like... how has "your" life changed since seeing this? I mean. I have a decent life. I'm a bit socially awkward, but my ideas entertain me, I am a creative person, I marvel at the beauty of nature and at the stupidity and automation of humans. I study the relationship between consciousness and energy in the world as a hobby. How certain colors produce certain effects. How certain video games send consciousness into a sort of reality tunnel and then consciousness holds the content and energy of that tunnel within itself, which basically acts as a matrix for how it will proceed in the world after that. How egos get inflated and deflated based on victory and loss, rightness and wrongness, how vanity and pride kick in to deny all mistakes, how power works, how language is manipulative, how gullible we are, how eager we are for something to happen constantly. I watch it all. I'm part of it in a way. But mostly I'm detached and entertained. I lost interest in women for the most part. I used to really like them. But I realized I mostly wanted them for affection and boosted self-esteem. I realized consciousness is like a vampire trying to absorb certain energies into itself to lull itself back to the womb-state. Back into oblivion. It's all very interesting. Yes.

[Space]

What am I supposed to do?

[Space]

Listen, my understanding of consciousness is that it is imaginative. It creates divisions within itself. It is itself not divided, but because of its imaginative capacity it can create divisions and "take sides," as it were. I'm very taoist in this respect. Out of the nothing came one - One is desire. Out of one came two - Two is Universe. Desire gives birth to the Universe so it can fulfill itself. Out of Two comes the ten thousand things - that is, once there's an apparent objective universe (it's only apparent), all distinctions arise.

Basically, I think we're in a dream that is projected out of consciousness onto the world. Within this dream, there is a collective overlap created by language and the other various similarities of human beings. We are a bunch of characters in a dream talking about how to get out of the dream, that is - "waking up," in the spiritual sense. You say that the way out is to see that there is no self. But you are a character within the dream and so am I, so we are like two little kids running around an entirely imaginary world talking about the "real world" outside of our own world, and yet the "real world" is also just another part of our imaginary world.

So as you can see, my understanding is deep and maybe profound.

[Matt]

Hi Space,
Yes, those are profound thoughts.
Would you be willing to let go of thought for a time? Here you can have a dialogue that cuts through all conceptuality and identity—that's why we call it "liberation".
Interested? Or are you here for a different reason?
Your friend,
Matt

[Life]

So as you can see, my understanding is deep and maybe profound.

This is not about how deep or profound your understanding is, this is about seeing what is actually there in the reality of experience! Look, is there a self seen?

[Space]

What I am saying is that you are telling me to look for a self in a realm where everything is illusory. You're telling me to look IN consciousness to see if I can find a "me" or "I" that is a true representative of myself, consciousness. And yet consciousness is not a substance or anything like that - in fact, it virtually doesn't exist, and yet it is absolutely real. So how could anything that arises in it represent it and legitimately call itself "me." The issue here is that people in the dream state are not real. They can mingle and pretend they are real, but they are mere shadows running around, apparently with lives of their own, existing in the imagination of the dreamer, yeah? And who is the dreamer? Well. Good luck finding the dreamer while you're in a dream. I mean, I'm here to get enlightened, you know? I'm just saying, I also have a pretty good understanding of this. I think "no-self" might be like a bonk on the head to get you looking the right direction. Like "who bonked me?" Anyway, what do you want me to do? Where am I going to look for a self if it doesn't exist like you say it doesn't? Where am I going to look for anything if we are but the imagination of a dreamer we can't perceive?

[Garsius Tyla]

Space, are you aware of consciousness? If you aware of it, then consciousness is not YOU, right? Who and where is that one, which is aware of all stuff? Is there someone at all? Look.

[Space]

Distinctions of seeing, being, non-being, self, correctness, who's, where's, stuff, people, these are all made up and belong to the dream world. What dreams is undivided and makes possible liberation and bondage, though neither of those is real either.

[Garsius Tyla]

Distinctions of seeing, being, non-being, self, correctness, who's, where's, stuff, people, these are all made up and belong to the dream world. What dreams is undivided and makes possible liberation and bondage, though neither of those is real either.

This is only mental "tra ta ta".

If you want to get something here. Again:

Space, are you aware of consciousness? If you aware of it, then consciousness is not YOU, right? Who and where is that one, which is aware of all stuff? Is there someone at all? Look.

[Space]

Consciousness is not an object in the dream so where would I find it?

[Garsius Tyla]

Space, can you answer my questions one by one please?

[Space]

Space, can you answer my questions one by one please?
-Sure.

Space, are you aware of consciousness?
Consciousness is not an object in the dream so where would I find it?


If you aware of it, then consciousness is not YOU, right?
But... I'm not aware of it.

Who and where is that one, which is aware of all stuff?
I don't know. Are you used to people saying "in my head," or "behind my eyes?" I don't even have eyes.

Is there someone at all?
I don't know. What's your experience of this? Is there someone or is there nothing? I can see it both ways.

[Garsius Tyla]

If you aware of it, then consciousness is not YOU, right?
But... I'm not aware of it.

How comes, you are talking about consciousness, if you are not aware of it?

Give HONESTYYYY please.