The Gate

My name is Diana, I think I am stuck at some point of my path and I think that your method is just what I was looking for to liberate from ideas and concepts that are holding me down. I hope that there is some guide available to help me. Thank you for making this website.

My name is Diana, I think I am stuck at some point of my path and I think that your method is just what I was looking for to liberate from ideas and concepts that are holding me down. I hope that there is some guide available to help me. Thank you for making this website.

Hello Diana and welcome to LU!

I'll gladly work with you here on this forum, providing you agree to stick to two guidelines:

1. Make this investigation a top priority. Dive into it. Post often.
2. Avoid speculation, report from your direct, personal experience.

If you're willing to do that, you've got yourself a guide! ;-)

The first step is to get on the same page, so to speak, so why don't we begin by taking a look at what it is that brings you here? Can you tell me a little about your path so far, how you got to LU and, quite importantly, what you think this is all about- what you hope to gain here?

Nice to meet you Damon,

I am from Mexico, I am 29 years old and my path began 10 years ago.
I'm willing to commit with this, I got to LU thanks to a good friend who already joined this forum and recommended it to me. Please give me a couple of days to answer your questions, I need time to think about them. I promise I will post frequently.

Thanks for your help.

Thanks for the response!

Take all the time you need. You don't need to post every day necessarily, just make sure that you keep the investigation going. There might be some delay between posts on this side because of the time difference between us (Mexico/Northern Europe) as well as a busy schedule here (2 young boys).

Looking forward to your answers.

My path has been guided by intuition more than anything else, for 10 years intuition has brought me the tools I need to move through this path. It started with a collage religion that included everything that made sense to me from different traditions, then the path moved into the esoteric part of these traditions. In this core they are all similar. I have tried to keep The Divine as free of concepts as possible, since I recognize that any try to define it is just a guess. I focus more in thinking about evolution than in creating definitions about The Divinity.

I think intuition brought me to this new tool for my life called LU. Because even when advancement have occured, I think that my mind is holding me down. So much thinking, concepts about me, concepts about how my path should be, how my personality shoud be, ego is becoming unbearable. Even when I know that I don't want this, I can't get rid of these things by myself. I come here for liberation. This is not about what I come to gain, but what I come to loose. I want to loose all that heavy mental weight that holds me down.

I think this may answer your questions, If you want me to give more details about any of them just ask.

Thanks, Diana. Let's begin this investigation. If anything is unclear in the process, let me know, allright?

My path has been guided by intuition more than anything else, for 10 years intuition has brought me the tools I need to move through this path. It started with a collage religion that included everything that made sense to me from different traditions, then the path moved into the esoteric part of these traditions. In this core they are all similar. I have tried to keep The Divine as free of concepts as possible, since I recognize that any try to define it is just a guess. I focus more in thinking about evolution than in creating definitions about The Divinity.

For the investigation at hand, can you drop all concepts, everything you've been taught or thought up for a period and approach this freshly? As if looking at it for the first time.

The method we use here we call "Direct Pointing" and it's quite simple. I'll ask you specific, highly focused questions and I'll expect you to look at the totality of your experience of the present moment, including but in no way limited to thoughts, emotions, sensations, everything, all of it for the answer.

Ok?

Let's go then...

I think intuition brought me to this new tool for my life called LU. Because even when advancement have occured, I think that my mind is holding me down. So much thinking, concepts about me, concepts about how my path should be, how my personality shoud be, ego is becoming unbearable. Even when I know that I don't want this, I can't get rid of these things by myself. I come here for liberation. This is not about what I come to gain, but what I come to loose. I want to loose all that heavy mental weight that holds me down.

My life.
My path.
My mind.
My ego.

What is this self, this me, this my that has this life, this path, this mind, this ego? Can you describe this self, how does it show up here right at this very moment? As what? Where? How?

Diana is an alias I use in the internet, you can call me Brenda.
Now I will answer your questions...

My life.
My path.
My mind.
My ego.

What is this self, this me, this my that has this life, this path, this mind, this ego? Can you describe this self, how does it show up here right at this very moment? As what? Where? How?

Even when I have read in many places that the " I " doesn't exist, I must admit this is not real in my experience, I don't feel it that way. You asked me to talk only from experience and to be honest.

What is this self? this self or I is who lives the experience, the experience of my life, who learns, relates to others, has a story, a past, makes something well or makes a mistake, enjoys or suffer, and lives overwhelmed with concepts, ideas, judgements.

This ego became unbearable, the mind is noisy, always thinking about something and even when the I lives the experience. sometimes it's thoughts take me away from fully living the experience. Sometimes my mind stops and the experience feels more intense and alive, It has occured many times. But later the mind starts making noise again.

About the path, this I have to go through this path to evolve and to get closer to the truth, this path is now very important in my life, this path lead me here to LU. It is difficult to imagine that the I doesn't exist as you affirm. I resist to this idea, If there is no I, who is having the experience?

Thanks, Brenda.

Even when I have read in many places that the " I " doesn't exist, I must admit this is not real in my experience, I don't feel it that way. You asked me to talk only from experience and to be honest.

Yes, hence this investigation. Don't take anything you read here, or anywhere, for granted. Explore it for yourself, in the immediacy of the experience of the present moment. Explore and investigate ruthlessly, until you see for yourself what is actually the case. What has always been the case.

In any honest investigation, one never starts with the answer already formulated. So keep an open mind. Should you find that there is an actual self running the show, living this life, then so be it. What I would like to guide you towards is a clear, direct and unambiguous seeing that there is no self at all. None. Zero. Without a shadow of a doubt. Anything other than that is just another theory, another worthless piece of speculation.

So, this is not about me convincing you of anything. My only job is to point your attention in the right direction. You will have to look and do the math yourself.

It's really, really, ridiculously simple, like I mentioned earlier.
So simple, that the mind will not accept it.

this self or I is who lives the experience, the experience of my life, who learns, relates to others, has a story, a past, makes something well or makes a mistake, enjoys or suffer, and lives overwhelmed with concepts, ideas, judgements.

So much material to work with here, Brenda. Wonderful!

So many entrance points for inquiry.

You've listed a couple of aspects of the self, of the I:

The experiencer.
The learner.
The relater.
The owner of stories.
The maker of mistakes.
The enjoyer.
The sufferer.
The thinker.

Let's examine this a bit closer.

Are these one and the same entity? The one experiencing, learning, relating, thinking, etc?

You've described what the self appears to be doing, but if you look more closely, is this actually the case?

Let's begin with the experience of thinking. It is normal to say "I am thinking about chocolate" or "My thoughts are about chocolate", etc. In these types of assertions, what seems to be said is that there is a thought occuring and that thought is generated by or belongs to a discreet entity, me, I, the self.

Right?

Now, if you examine closely, attentively, the actual experience of a thought occuring, what do you notice?

Where do thoughts come from? Do you create them?
Where do thoughts occur? Where does a thought happen?
Can you control your next thought?
Where is the thinker of thoughts actually located?
What is the thinker of thoughts?
In what way, shape and form does the thinker exist?

Etc.

I hope you're getting a feel for the type of questions I'd like you to ask here. Let me know if anything's unclear.

I resist to this idea, If there is no I, who is having the experience?

Good! Resist the idea as much as possible.

Then resist it some more.

Watch where this resistence comes from.

Where it happens.

What form it takes, what it feels like.

What is being protected by this resistance?

What needs protection?

This isn't about ideas at all.

It's about reality. Reality that is not a concept or idea- but ACTUAL, REAL REALITY!

Good luck with the investigation and keep me posted...!

Hi Damon,
I have been finding these question a bit harder to answer, that's why it took me longer to reply.

Are these one and the same entity? The one experiencing, learning, relating, thinking, etc?

I think they are

Now, if you examine closely, attentively, the actual experience of a thought occuring, what do you notice?

Where do thoughts come from? Do you create them?
Where do thoughts occur? Where does a thought happen?
Can you control your next thought?
Where is the thinker of thoughts actually located?
What is the thinker of thoughts?
In what way, shape and form does the thinker exist?

Thoughts come from my mind, then I have to be creating them, thay happen in my mind.
the thinker is not a physical form, it is more subtle so It is not located physically, even when it seems to depend of the brain. What is the thinker? maybe some energy.

Can you control your next thought?
I left this one at the end because with this specific question I found something strange, what calls my attention here is that I really can't control the next though, they seem to be somehow automatic. Maybe I am contradicting myself now. This one has been repeting in my head and I can't find a good explanation for this.

The next group of questions I will have to wait to catch myself resisting while I am conscious enough to observe it more accurately. I have not had a good chance to do it. I hope that is ok with you. But for now I think this set of questions will give us enough material.

that's why it took me longer to reply.

No worries, there's no rush at all.

Are these one and the same entity? The one experiencing, learning, relating, thinking, etc?

I think they are

That sounds an awful lot like speculation, Brenda.
Yes, the common assumption is that behind all of these activities there is one central entity doing all of it: YOU.
The simple question I'm inviting you to look into, deeply and directly is: is that true? Is it true that behind this experience, there is a YOU?

Thoughts come from my mind, then I have to be creating them, thay happen in my mind.

Where is your mind exactly? What is a mind?
What makes this mind YOUR mind?
Are YOU and this mind one and the same or is there a mind here and a you there and a connection of ownership between the two. How does this actually work?

Again, common assumptions and the way language is used suggest things are a certain way, now the invitation is to look beyond common language and see for yourself what is actually going on here!

the thinker is not a physical form, it is more subtle so It is not located physically, even when it seems to depend of the brain. What is the thinker? maybe some energy.

"Maybe some energy"?

More speculation! What do you mean by that.

What, actually is "the thinker". Right now- how does "the thinker" show up. In what way and in what sense does it exist? As what?

Can you control your next thought?
I left this one at the end because with this specific question I found something strange, what calls my attention here is that I really can't control the next though, they seem to be somehow automatic. Maybe I am contradicting myself now. This one has been repeting in my head and I can't find a good explanation for this.

Whoah. Big one!

You cannot control your next thought.
Now, WHY IS THAT?

The next group of questions I will have to wait to catch myself resisting while I am conscious enough to observe it more accurately. I have not had a good chance to do it. I hope that is ok with you. But for now I think this set of questions will give us enough material.

Sure! Next time an opportunity arises, do the investigation and let me know.

And, take all the time you need. You're doing great.

Good! Resist the idea as much as possible.

Then resist it some more.

Watch where this resistence comes from.

It comes from a sensation of being threatened a sensation of danger. I feel that this could destroy me. this sound strange to me now that I observe it but that is the feeling I get. There is a contradiction between what I can rationaly understand and this crude instinctive sensation.

Where it happens.

physically I feel it in my stomach area, my face muscles also feel tense, may jaw feels not relaxed I feel that I am in a defensive posture as when you feel you can be attacked.

What form it takes, what it feels like.

It takes the form of stress, it feels like tension, mental and physical tension

What is being protected by this resistance? What needs protection?

me

Where is your mind exactly? What is a mind?
What makes this mind YOUR mind?
Are YOU and this mind one and the same or is there a mind here and a you there and a connection of ownership between the two. How does this actually work?

Those are good questions, could it be that there is only thinking without it being my thinking, his or her thinking. Just thinking occuring? no one who possess these thoughts? can it be just that simple? Something interesting to consider.

I had experienced moments when no thinking is occuring for a long period of time and that feels fine, actually it feels very good. Resting from this constant mind noise.

Whoah. Big one!
You cannot control your next thought.
Now, WHY IS THAT?

just thinking ocurring? as when breathing just occur without someone who controlls it? withouth a thinker? can that be possible?

I feel that this could destroy me.

What is the YOU that is under threat? What is its substance, the stuff it is made of?

Can you allow that physical, instinctive feeling to be completely present, even invite it closer to be even more fully present? Then stare it directly in the face, so to speak, confront it. Fully experience it. What is behind it? What is actually being protected? Does that need protection?

could it be that there is only thinking without it being my thinking, his or her thinking. Just thinking occuring? no one who possess these thoughts? can it be just that simple? Something interesting to consider.

Well...?

Beyond interesting, I'd say. Of fundamental importance.

So, look...! Do these thoughts belong to a you?

just thinking ocurring? as when breathing just occur without someone who controlls it? withouth a thinker? can that be possible?

Can it? Could it?

What is the YOU that is under threat? What is its substance, the stuff it is made of?

The ME that is under threat... I really don't know. As I tell you this is a crude emotional sensation. I feel that something important could be lost and I feel scared. I can deny it rationaly, of course I know this is not a real theat, but still I get these feelings.

Well...?

Beyond interesting, I'd say. Of fundamental importance.

So, look...! Do these thoughts belong to a you?

These days I have this feeling of being less attached to thoughs. Since this chat with you started. This is the first time I feel less possesive about these thougths. Something is slowly changing.

Can it? Could it?

It is strange, but now that I don't feel as attached to this thoughts as before, the idea that thoughts could just be occurring without a thinker doesn't sound as total nonsense.

Can you allow that physical, instinctive feeling to be completely present, even invite it closer to be even more fully present? Then stare it directly in the face, so to speak, confront it. Fully experience it. What is behind it? What is actually being protected? Does that need protection?

I need more time to look at this, to observe it better.

The ME that is under threat... I really don't know. As I tell you this is a crude emotional sensation. I feel that something important could be lost and I feel scared. I can deny it rationaly, of course I know this is not a real theat, but still I get these feelings.

Yes, and this is a very natural reaction. It's a fully automated defense mechanism.

Also, it's a sign that this inquiry is working. You're coming to the core of this.

So: don't deny it rationally, but FACE IT FULLY, finally.

What is behind these emotional sensations? What is the ME that appears to be threatened by this investigation? Look!

It is strange, but now that I don't feel as attached to this thoughts as before, the idea that thoughts could just be occurring without a thinker doesn't sound as total nonsense.

Haha, great! Still, it sounds like you're trying to convince yourself of a certain position. Don't do that. Doubt this as much as you can, be as sceptical as possible. Set the intent to fully, finally find out the truth about this.

I need more time to look at this, to observe it better.

Sure.
Then again,
No time at all is needed for this.
Just a split second of full honesty,
And complete courage.
The courage to face the fear that appears to be protecting something,
The honesty to recognize what you're seeing there.

Simple question: do you exist at all?

So: don't deny it rationally, but FACE IT FULLY, finally.
What is behind these emotional sensations? What is the ME that appears to be threatened by this investigation? Look!

No time at all is needed for this.
Just a split second of full honesty,
And complete courage.
The courage to face the fear that appears to be protecting something,
The honesty to recognize what you're seeing there.

When just for a moment I could stay and looked directly at the face of fear without scaping, it told me what I needed to know about it.

What is behind it? What is actually being protected? Does that need protection?

Yes! Honesty is what we want here, and here it is what I found. What is threatened by this investigation is my identity, all I feel identified with, my past, my experiences, personality, what I like or dislike, what I feel, everything. I feel insecure digging in this investigation. because what would I be without an identity, a self. Feels as if I could die, dissapear, vanish, it sounds terrifying. I do feel that this needs protection.

Haha, great! Still, it sounds like you're trying to convince yourself of a certain position.

If I do this it is totally unconscious and I should know it, so please point it out anytime you consider I may be doing that. I am divided, I want so much that this investigation succeeds and at the same time I want it to fail because I am affraid. I want two goals that are totally opposite.

Simple question: do you exist at all?

How could it be possible that I don't exist at all? My life doesn't make sense if I don't exist at all. I have been alive for 29 years, so I must exist. And many things have happened in my life. I have to exist for my life to happen.