Help me see the illusion of self

[rockstar]

Looking for a guide. I understand intellectually about the illusion of the self but haven't seen through it. My expectations are: to be able to accept WHAT IS and go with the flow. I get stuck to the situations, events and stories in the head.

Please help.

Thanks much.

[Pallavi]

Hi rockstar, (shall I call you that? :) )

I'd be happy to help.

Have you read our disclaimer?

Just a few ground rules from my side:

1) Try as much to reply at least once a day to keep the momentum going.
2) Keep away all philosophies and practices that you have been engaging with, just for the process- it's best to come in with an open mind. If you meditate you may continue with that.
3) Try to keep your answers concise, but don't sacrifice clarity for brevity.

I'll be trying to help you in every way possible, sometimes giving you exercises to do and sometimes questions to answer. Please try and answer to the best of your ability. If you are unable to do an exercise, or unable to answer a question, it's ok to say you don't know.

That's all. If you're ok with these we can continue :)

[rockstar]

Yes I understand and wholeheartedly agree.
Thanks for your valuable time, Pallavi!
Let's start.

[Pallavi]

Alright rockstar, could you tell me a bit about your journey?

What brought you to LU?

What is the intellectual understanding you have?

[rockstar]

Hi Pallavi,
I came to know Peter via FB who was helped to see the illusion of self by Ilona. Peter recommended me to join LU.

As far as the Self-story goes, for the past 8 years I have had a feeling of a "hole' within. Not sure why and how. I know that it has been different living since. Suddenly the feeling of "oh I have arrived. I'm going to die in matter of years (currently in mid 40s) so why so much fuzz about wants, desires, what's the point of this life blah blah". I got interested in SRF, Rudolf Steiner, Jiddu Krishnamurti, Gurdjieff, Vipassna to name a few.

About intellectual understanding: I have seen that feelings/emotions rise up and subside. But many time I get drown into them even if I don't respond to them (sort of remain in the head). I notice repetitiveness of them. When I sense it, thoughts stop - that's all. I don't see the falsehood of Self. Then similar emotions come up and life continues.

[Pallavi]

Where do you see self?

Look around the room. Do you see you?

[rockstar]

Not outside. I feel self between my ears - very strong.

[rockstar]

I see myself very strongly when I look in the mirror - solid as a rock.

[Pallavi]

Are you seeing your 'self'? Or are you seeing what people have told you is 'your' body?

Can you see something from infinite angles?
Can you see something from no angle?

Think about this: there is no self/ you/ me in any way shape or form.
How does it statement make you feel?
Can you locate the feeling in your body?

[rockstar]

The feeling seems to be only in the head. For example I have pain in my body after playing yesterday. I feel it or rather there is a feeling, a strong one of it within this bag of skin. This feeling cannot be denied as it is strong and evident. Also I seem to be taking decisions and my mood evidently changes based on thoughts. Thoughts seem to have effect in how I feel.

[rockstar]

How does the statement make you feel: no feeling. Doesn't seem to be serious statement-that's what I feel.

[Pallavi]

Please answer the questions I have asked directly about 'seeing'.

The statement isn't serious- is that what you believe or are you speculating that it is not serious?

Do you see the self?

What does the self consist of for you?

[rockstar]

I believe the statement isn't serious enough itself.

I don't see the self with my eyes but I feel it strongly in waking hours.

Self is an image in the skull. It feels very real to be present when there is pain in the body.

[Pallavi]

You feel the self? - how do you know that you are feeling the self? What does the self feel like?

Self is an image in the skull- who told you this?

Is the pain felt by the self? Or pain is just felt?

When I ask what the self consists of for you- do you think it is the body/mind/ feeling?

Answer these: can you see something from infinite angles?
Can you see something from no angle?

What is belief?

When were 'you' created? Were you born with likes dislikes and preferences?

[rockstar]

I am not sure what self is. I do feel there is something in the head which sort of feels like the self.

Self is an image in the skull. It was reinforced from the beginning by parents, siblings, friends and stranger as they responded to my needs, questions etc. They were talking to someone - ME - looking at me, talking etc.

Pain is just felt. It is felt but who feels it? Who recognizes that there is the "felt" of pain. Therefore I can say I feel the pain.

I cannot physically see anything from infinite or no angle.

The belief is a thought. The thought that has taken a deep root in the self (identity).

I wasn't born with likes/dislikes/preferences. The surrounding environment established my behaviors. For example, holding hand over fire will have burning sensation so I dislike doing it.