The Gate

Hi, I have been reading enlightening quotes app and gatelessgatechrashes book since a week ago. I am finding difficulty in questioning myself about my existence. Would you please give an helping hand?

A bit more info about myself. I'm 21yrs old, pursuing Chartered accountancy course. Past 2yrs I have been on a merry go round non stop. No where to go. Totally confused. I have experienced all kinds of religions, meditations etc etc. Nothing makes me "Awake" or "Enlightened" whatever name they call.

Isn't there anyone to guide me? It's been 2.5days.. Seriously, what's going on?

Hi Mary

What's going on is summer, with many on vacation, and the natural ebb and flow of people being available. We are all volunteers and take on what we can take. You might consider this your first 'test'.... being patient enough to trust that the right guide will show up when it happens. Don't worry.. it will happen. There are no mistakes.

Bill
LU admin

Okiez. I'll wait and see.

Hi Mary,

I don't like to see you waiting so long.. let's go ahead...

Thanks for being here.

Please take a look at the intro page of LU here, it contains our disclaimer and a short video too.

http://www.liberationunleashed.com/

Some guidelines that I would like your agreement on:

1) Agree to post daily or email if you are not able. You can post more often if you want.

2) Please set aside any other spiritual practices during this inquiry. Instead commit at this time, like you would for a meditation practice, to begin looking for this separate self, this "I"; look for what is the experienced through out the day as this looking happens.

3) I will ask questions and you answer.... listen very closely to the answers that arise in you.
Answer to the very best of your ability at that time.

4) If you do agree to the above....please share some about your experience in persuing this and also what your expectations are to see through the illusion of the separate self, and of any concerns/fears about that?

If you could confirm you have seen all the above and are in agreement, we can go ahead and get started.

Bill

Hello Bill,

Thanks for accepting to guide me. Hope not unwillingly though, since no one showed up to guide :) Anyways...

Yeah, I have gone through the intro page of LU and also the rules of this forum.

Some of the things I have been experiencing while going through this illusion of "I":
1: This happened 3yrs back while I was just lying down and shoot a question to myself "What if I don't exist?" .. After asking this I became totally blank for awhile.. just lying there. No thoughts came up. It lasted a minute or two.
2: Again a week back while going through The Gateless Gatecrashers book, read a statement that goes like "'I' consist of just thoughts, emotions, movements etc etc" I paused at this words. Something happened that can't be expressed in words I was fully present 'here and now'.

But, this seems to be going on and off. Without I understanding it.


Here are my expectations:
1: To understand more clearly about this illusion through my experiences. I face a real problem while questioning this "I". My mind just diverts me. I guess It tries to escape from it. I don't know why does it happen that way.
2: To clarify some doubts that I have.
3: And to end with this illusion of 'I' that's hanging on for a long time and to have a different perspective about life.

If you could confirm you have seen all the
above and are in agreement, we can go ahead
and get started.

Agreed and I'm absolutely ready . Let's proceed.

Ok great Mary. Thanks for being here.

I really like your enthusiasm and that you are ready to go.
Yes, your experiences sound similar to what you might find here.
Sound like they've had a deep influence on your path.
I see nothing in the expectations that will get in the way right now either.... we may re-visit these later.

Now we'll just concentrate on what's here.
If you want to continue with the book, that's fine.... its a very helpful companion while you're doing this.
Anything that might pop up for you while reading, be sure and bring it here.

First, I want you to watch the video on LOOKING on the prior post's link and tell me what your thoughts and feelings are about it.

The other thing I want to do is ask you one particular question.
Give me your thorough and honest answer to it as best you can.
Not sure if I mentioned it in the first post, but sometimes there will be several questions sprinkled throughout the replies. Be sure and answer all of them. We like to be clear on things as we move on.

OK, the question:

What is your reaction; thoughts, feelings, perceptions, etc if I say to you that the I that you think you are is not real. That it can't be found in real life if searched for. That it is only a thought (although a very deeply ingrained one) in your head. There's no 'you' thinking your thoughts. No 'you' living your life. Something is living your life, but its not 'you'.
Look at your reaction to this. What is it?
Give me you real honest thorough answer and if anything comes up be sure and put it down.

Bill

Hi Bill

Give me your thorough and honest answer to it as best you can.

I'll post whatever I experience as it is without filtering it in anyway.

So, here we go -

First, I want you to watch the video on
LOOKING on the prior post's link and tell me
what your thoughts and feelings are about it.

Here's what came up when I was watching the video you recommended. When the person in the video ( I don't know if it's you) say 'There must be a desire to look' .. This is what popped in my head - If desire has to occur, then in the first place there must be someone to get that desire .. And then to have trust, understanding etc there must be someone.

Your next question

What is your reaction; thoughts, feelings,
perceptions, etc if I say to you that the I that
you think you are is not real. That it can't be
found in real life if searched for. That it is
only a thought (although a very deeply
ingrained one) in your head. There's no 'you'
thinking your thoughts. No 'you' living your
life. Something is living your life, but its not
'you'. Look at your reaction to this. What is it?

First of all, That statement of yours made me cry.. I don't know why tears came.. I just started crying..
And these where the thoughts that came up( I have written it as it cropped in my head, without altering)

If I don't exist, Then what happens to my goals that I have to achieve in my life. Life becomes meaningless. All the things I'm doing in my life is for what and for whom? Having desires is waste. Why am I studying so hard when I don't exist?.. If I don't exist then why would bible say that Jesus died for our sins? Who is committing sin then? If I don't exist Then who is taken decisions in every aspect of my life? When I'm choosing I want A and not B it's because I exist if not how can life happen by itself.. If I don't exist, then how every1's life is different from me? It's because 'I' is leading their lives.. And I'm leading my life. Wow.. Thoughts like this goes on and on. When I say these are just thoughts to myself, even "When I say these are just thought" is a thought by itself. Now.. I'm again back to the first question "I don't exist.. Do I?!!!


Mary Asha

Mary Asha - Thanks for your thorough honest answers.
I appreciate it.
Sometimes I will take pieces of your response and dissect them, sometimes not.
It seems to be whatever comes is what happesns...

Here's what came up when I was watching the video you recommended. When the person in the video ( I don't know if it's you) say 'There must be a desire to look' .. This is what popped in my head - If desire has to occur, then in the first place there must be someone to get that desire .. And then to have trust, understanding etc there must be someone.

Do what we call LOOK, and see if this is really true....
Can there be desire without some 'one' having it?
Can it just be there without an 'I' being the desirer?

First of all, That statement of yours made me cry.. I don't know why tears came.. I just started crying..
And these where the thoughts that came up( I have written it as it cropped in my head, without altering)

If I don't exist, Then what happens to my goals that I have to achieve in my life. Life becomes meaningless. All the things I'm doing in my life is for what and for whom? Having desires is waste. Why am I studying so hard when I don't exist?.. If I don't exist then why would bible say that Jesus died for our sins? Who is committing sin then? If I don't exist Then who is taken decisions in every aspect of my life? When I'm choosing I want A and not B it's because I exist if not how can life happen by itself.. If I don't exist, then how every1's life is different from me? It's because 'I' is leading their lives.. And I'm leading my life. Wow.. Thoughts like this goes on and on. When I say these are just thoughts to myself, even "When I say these are just thought" is a thought by itself. Now.. I'm again back to the first question "I don't exist.. Do I?!!!

Strong reaction to this indicates some fear around this which is perfectly normal.
If there are any other fears, get them out here...
If I'm not this 'I', then what am I? Who am I?
And yes goals and meaning, what about them...
Note now that it is not our goal here to decide meaning and goals and what's right or wrong..
We don't get into any of that.
But we can look at the concept.

If you LOOK, can you find any meaning to things other than what 'you' give them?
Does not all meaning come from thought in some way shape or form?

Now.. I'm again back to the first question "I don't exist.. Do I?!!!

We will look to see if this is true or not.

How we think and thoughts are huge in this process of inquiry.
No matter what we do, we can't get away from thinking.
Since thoughts are so prevalent, lets look at them.
Can you look very carefully and tell me where thoughts arise, for you?
Can you see a point of origin, in reality for your thoughts?

And then in looking at the thoughts, do they all start out with an I attached, or does the I attach to the thought somewhere? In other words, are most all of your thoughts seem to be about you?

Use direct experience (the LOOKING method in the video) to answer these questions.
there's a bit here, take your time with them.

Bill

Happy evening

Will get back to you once I'm done investigating.. But, before that can you answer me this -- "Thoughts are required to investigate something right?"

Hi. I'm not sure exactly what you are asking here... yes, we are going to use thinking. And also looking and hearing and perceiving and feeling.... all of it.

What I meant is, when I'm using my thoughts to know that "I" is an illusion. how do I believe in them? Because that same thoughts say me that "I" exist.

Hi Bill

Here is my answers

Do what we call LOOK, and see if this is really
true.... Can there be desire without some 'one' having
it? Can it just be there without an 'I' being the
desirer?

This question really made me go into a mirror maze. I could not go very deep in asking 'Who is having the desire?' .. And everytime I asked that, I ended up answering 'me' .. That's why I called it a mirror maze. A part of me says don't go deep into it, end it here because somewhere I feel that your trying to make my identity disappear forever in which I have invested almost my whole life desiring for things. I really need the courage to go further. And I'm gonna do it. I need sometime. :)

If you LOOK, can you find any meaning to
things other than what 'you' give them?
Does not all meaning come from thought in
some way shape or form?

Yes, your right. I'm living the world based on how I'm interpreting it. And when I kept on asking myself 'Who am I?" I got many answers lik I'm Asha, or I'm a girl of 21yrs of age, I'm a student etc etc .. all these were just the things that are attached to me, not really me. Then who am I?.. Every answer I get by asking, comes solely from thoughts. And I can't trust my thoughts because they are changing everytme. I don't know how to go beyond the thoughts.

Can you look very carefully and tell me where
thoughts arise, for you? Can you see a point of origin, in reality for your thoughts?

I'm not knowing from where this thoughts arise. By the time I look at one thought the other would have taken it's place. When I was looking what I found out is that each thoughts are so different from eachothr. Not even 1% related to eachother. I don't know from where do they come.. They just come and go. I felt surprised watching it at one point where I was thinking about next few minutes what I'm gonna be doing and suddenly I stated thinking about my childhood days. They are so random.
And to answer your question in 3 words - I DON'T KNOW

And then in looking at the thoughts, do they all
start out with an I attached, or does the I
attach to the thought somewhere? In other
words, are most all of your thoughts seem to
be about you?

No, Thoughts just flow; it's either about the past or future. Just twice or thrice I could see it without 'I' attached but other times 'I' was there pointing at ........ Umm I don't know pointing at me? or my spirit? or .. I don't know..

Mary