The Gate

I hope to find a guide willing to take me on... I am most anxious and willing!

Hello, welcome to LU. How would you like me to call you?

I am most anxious and willing!

Good :)
What are your expectations from this process? what will change after seeing through illusion of separate self?
What happens reading this: "There is no separate you, there never was, nor will there ever be. There is just a thought saying there is."

With Love,
Nenad

My expectation is to understand this deeper than at an intillectual level and more of a felt level. I have been seeking for many, many years and i struggle with getting this at a deeper level at whats said to be obviously simple thing. I do believe I understand it but don't truly experience it??? DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? I have the burning desire to see through the illusion of the separate self but somehow i feel blocked at that level? Again as i read your response it all makes sense at the intillectual level but i can't seem to get it at the felt level... Oh am i making any sense?

Hi :)

I do believe I understand it

Describe this understanding. What does it mean that there is no separate self? Describe in detail.

but somehow i feel blocked at that level

What is 'behind' this blockage, so to speak? Where does it come from?

i can't seem to get it at the felt level...

How will it be when you get it on a felt level? how will it feel like? What will be different?

What does the word 'I' point to? What is the function of 'I'?

With Love

The only way to can explain it is when I put my attention on it (my true nature or "me") it is the unchangable steady being or awareness that I seem to contact or feel or see??? I kind of get that far when I rest there it seems clear but drops away the moment I get distracted with life...I cannot sustaine it it drops in and out...More out than in...My life seems to flow unaware of this steady unchanging awareness under it all until I remember it at some point in my day?

The blockage seems to be this Bob I take myself to be running the show it is the little me (lack of better words) doing what he always has done running the show! I totally loose the deeper steady unchanging presense and give into the ego!!!

I still think when I say the word "I" it's the form Bob and not this awareness before all of this business of Bob...But when I do get to the deeper level I feel peace, joy, hope and love... But I just drift back to the little me and grind away with life and survival??? I can't seem to not let the ego run things as it has always done! So I loose the what I beleive to be who I truly am and crash back into life, struggle, survival and the rest...Am I making any sense? Please excuse my spelling I am trying to type fast as thoughts come to me and I cant find spell check...

Hi :)

The only way to can explain it is when I put my attention on it (my true nature or "me") it is the unchangable steady being or awareness that I seem to contact or feel or see??? I kind of get that far when I rest there it seems clear but drops away the moment I get distracted with life...I cannot sustaine it it drops in and out...More out than in...My life seems to flow unaware of this steady unchanging awareness under it all until I remember it at some point in my day?

Seeing through illusion of separate self is NOT about achieving any state.
If here is an expectation to have this experience that thought labels "unchangable steady being or awareness" all the time and to not have the experience labeled "leting the ego run things as it has always done" that is not realistic.
If there is an expectation to have more of this "unchangable..." and less of "leting the ego..." this may or may not be realistic expectation.
No one can predict what will actually happen, let's see :)
Speaking of that, please read our disclaimer: http://www.liberationunleashed.com/

The blockage seems to be this Bob I take myself to be running the show it is the little me (lack of better words) doing what he always has done running the show! I totally loose the deeper steady unchanging presense and give into the ego!!!

Yes, it may seem that Bob is running the show. Like, when you dream, it may seem that the 1st person character in a dream is running the show, talking with other characters etc. But, in a dream, is the 1st person character aware of anything?

Are you thinker of thoughts?
Can you choose and deliberately think a thought?

When answering questions in this thread please put aside all you assume to be true and report from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Here is a link with explanation what is meant by direct experience: http://www.liberationunleashed.com/Arti ... ience.html

With Love

Hi, I read both of the links you sent and they were very helpful! Thank you... I will do my best to not try and place expectations and over think this process. I do want you to push me in any way you can to do the work to pass through the gate:) The piece about "is the first person character in the dream aware of anything" was also very helpful I hope that answer would be NO. And the next question about am I the thinker of my thoughts? I had to sit with that a second and what comes up is that thoughts just show up...I am not so sure about the second half of the question "can i choose and deliberatly think a thought? I say yes I can if I am thinking about it??? right??? Say I'm asked that very question by someone I sure can think and say "I want a banana" that would be me thinking and saying a thought right? Or maybe I don't fully understand the question?

Thank you so much for the help with this process!

Hi,

I read both of the links you sent and they were very helpful! Thank you...

Good.

I will do my best to not try and place expectations and over think this process.

Good!
Also, You don't have to say the first thing that comes up. Take the time to look in direct experience before replying. (Although, please keep posting at least once every day.)

I do want you to push me in any way you can to do the work to pass through the gate:)

OK :)

he piece about "is the first person character in the dream aware of anything" was also very helpful I hope that answer would be NO.

Right. And don't hope, consider this: When dream is over, is any of the characters still thinking about what happened in the dream? Were they thinking about anything while the dream was on?

And the next question about am I the thinker of my thoughts? I had to sit with that a second and what comes up is that thoughts just show up...

Right. Don't just take the second to sit with it, take some time to observe how thinking works :)

I am not so sure about the second half of the question "can i choose and deliberatly think a thought?

Read this link, and answer the questions from it here: http://this-is-cosmik.blogspot.com/2012 ... ughts.html

Love :)

Hi,

That was a powerful exersise!
Where do thoughts come from? As I sat with that first question it became clear to me that thoughts just arise from nothing and drift off into nothing.
Can I stop a thought? No I cant stop a thought without another thought about stopping that thought pops up and another and another!!! Crazy...
Can I choose to think thoughts of a blue flower? I still struggle with this one because I still feel I identify with this solid me that can bring a thought to my mind??? But I sat for a bit asking if I can find this "me" and when I do that I can't find anything close to a me when I deliberately look fo a me...Yet thoughts come up
Can I not choose to think of a pink elephent? When I say yes a mess of other thoughts come up telling me dont think that thought...yet the thought of a pink elephent comes up in some way shape or form as i try not to... I found I can't not think that thought!
Here and now can I think a thought? Thoughts just come they are constant it seems as i look...they just seem to come and go and then more thoughts come. I seem to have nothing to do witht the coming and going!
Am I my thoughts? As I sat with this question it was clear that thoughts just show up from nothing and disapper back into the same...But many of them are so powerful

Some thoughts are so strong and feel so structured they feel solid and generated by me this form! That is the way I have lived my life by my thoughts??? Thoughts and beliefs have got a strangle hold on me with all the should's, shouldn't and I dont measure up,I don't get it and I'll never get it!!! I see that they are all thoughts that come up but that is how I have functioned in this life. Why are they so strong? Why am I pulled around by them? Sorry a little frustration seems to have set in:( I want to keep going stay with me?

Love...

Hi,

Nice work so far. It can be frustrating sometimes, when beliefs are being challenged. Keep up like that, it's going great.

That was a powerful exersise!

:)

Where do thoughts come from? As I sat with that first question it became clear to me that thoughts just arise from nothing and drift off into nothing.

Right.

Can I stop a thought? No I cant stop a thought without another thought about stopping that thought pops up and another and another!!! Crazy...

Good. Yes, crazy... :)

Can I choose to think thoughts of a blue flower? I still struggle with this one because I still feel I identify with this solid me that can bring a thought to my mind??? But I sat for a bit asking if I can find this "me" and when I do that I can't find anything close to a me when I deliberately look fo a me...Yet thoughts come up

You can't find anything close to a you...What do you find instead? When you look around, what is there?
'Yet thoughts come up'. Yes, they do, but, are you thinking them? :)

Can I not choose to think of a pink elephent? When I say yes a mess of other thoughts come up telling me dont think that thought...yet the thought of a pink elephent comes up in some way shape or form as i try not to... I found I can't not think that thought!

Right!

Here and now can I think a thought? Thoughts just come they are constant it seems as i look...they just seem to come and go and then more thoughts come. I seem to have nothing to do witht the coming and going!

Right. Any doubts about this?

Am I my thoughts? As I sat with this question it was clear that thoughts just show up from nothing and disapper back into the same...

Good!

But many of them are so powerful

In what way are they powerful?

Are they your thoughts?

Look at the computer. Is it your computer or a computer?
Look at 'your' hand. Is it your hand or a hand?

Some thoughts are so strong and feel so structured they feel solid and generated by me this form!

What do you mean by 'this form'? Describe it in detail using the model of direct experience. (Here is the link again http://www.liberationunleashed.com/Arti ... ience.html )

That is the way I have lived my life by my thoughts???

Is there a person that lives the life? Does the rain need someone to rain it? Does life need someone to live it?

I see that they are all thoughts that come up but that is how I have functioned in this life.

No! :) There is no personal you that lived like that! Life was just living itself all this time and was just thought saying otherwise.

Sorry a little frustration seems to have set in:(

Yes, that is normal. Frustration is a sign that you are actually looking :)

I want to keep going

Great!

stay with me?

Of course!!

Lots of Love

Hi,
Your question after the thought of the blue flower... what I find is this what feels like this deeper awareness or presense kind to prior to the thoughts if I really look? But its faint and in my daily activities life is lived so much on the surface I would never see this or explore this. But when I sit with it this is what comes up?
Then you ask am I thinking the thoughts? I look at this and see that the answer is NO I am not thinking them they just come up then they go...I see this when I look but life is lived day by day in the craziness of life and this looking never happens and I wonder around wrapped up in my thoughts and functioning from those thoughts and beliefs...

Here and now can I think a thought? You asked if I have any doubts based on my answer? I say NO when I really sit with this question as you have had me do it is clear. As I log off after a post and get into the crazy fast paced way life is lived I fully function for these thoughts and beliefs as I have always done. Thats my dilema I walk away from this computer and life is back on auto pilot unti the next time I sit with these quetions and really look. So if I answer honestly I have doubts:(

You then ask me why I made the statement thoughts are powerful? That may have been a bad choice of words...Maybe its that they are strong on that day to day moment to moment as life is lived kind of way where my thoughts are precieved to be mine and lived out accordingly? Frustration is being felt again:(
You then ask are they my thoughts? When i sit with this its clear they are not my thoughts and that thoughts just show up and drift off followed by more thoughts! Not Mine! But again I drift right back into them closed off and unaware when I log off this comuter...Uhggggg!
The next couple questions really grabbed me! About the computer being my computer or just a computer? Wow so clear its just a computer...As well my hand when I look at it is just a hand...clear, clear, clear:) I like that...How can that clearness be soooo clear an ahh ha moment! ? But then somehow be lost or un-noticed again as life is lived?

You asked me too define what I mean by this form? I mean this "me" this Bob I usually take myself to be...And the thoughts in everyday hustle bustle crazy paced life are fully believed to be mine and what now I see in trance like fashsion are taken as mine hook line and sinker... Thats where after what I've seen thus far in working with you WHY do I drift back are get hooked? I re-read the direct experience post you re-sent and suggested I re-read and I did so...Oh it is so clear after I read it again that thoughts are not MINE and truly there isn't a ME to be found!!! Look out here it comes...But I seem to fall back into the mire...WHY?

You ask is there a person who lives life? NO when I sit with this I see life is living itself! When I leave this space I question it based on going back to life on auto pilot thoughts,, beliefs and all:(
Rain doesn't need someone to rain it just as life doesn't need some one to live it...Why is that so clear from here right now? When I stop looking at this that darn auto pilot kicks back in and that is frustrating...

The next section I expressed my frustration over how i have lived my life being led by my thoughts and beliefs and you say NO! That life is living itself and its just the thoughts that are telling me different!

Please know that I am so thankful to have you guiding me in this process! Frustration seems to be my word this session sorry! I have so many questions and truthfully I am scared (not sure its the right word) because I so badly don't want to go back to the everyday unfocused crazy unaware life I seem to glom on to when I log out of our session??? I'm just not sure what to do with myself right now? Hmmmm words are hard to find to explain all thats being processed...I'm looking forward to your response:)

With Love:)

Hi :)

Please know that I am so thankful to have you guiding me in this process!

I am also thankful to you for going through this process!

Frustration seems to be my word this session sorry!

That is OK. Frustration is often there when there is a true desire to see through illusion, and beliefs held for lifetime are starting to get questioned and fall apart.
This falling apart of beliefs can not be forced , so it is understandable that this may feel frustrating!

I have so many questions and truthfully I am scared (not sure its the right word)

Good! Look at this fear: What is it? And what is 'behind' it?

because I so badly don't want to go back to the everyday unfocused crazy unaware life I seem to glom on to when I log out of our session??

If there is no one there, then what is it that doesn't want to go back to everyday 'unfocused crazy unaware' life?

What if the only issue with this 'unfocused crazy unaware' life is your resistance to it, your attempt to escape it?
What is it that makes it unaware? Is there anything more than thought saying 'this life is unaware'? If it was truly unaware you wouldn't be able to report on it, would you?

I'm just not sure what to do with myself right now?

Is there anyone there to do anything with himself?

Love :)

Forgot to say this:

The next couple questions really grabbed me! About the computer being my computer or just a computer? Wow so clear its just a computer...As well my hand when I look at it is just a hand...clear, clear, clear:)

Good. Great!

Hi Nenad, I reviewed our correspondence from the begining and I neglected to answer the question of what I wanted to be called by sorry:) Bob is what I go by thanks...

You asked me to look at the fear and asked "what is it"? And" whats behind it'? I see that the fear is a thought and just a thought that comes up around the story of Bob and been my constant companion as far back as I can remember...I have forever strived driven by this fear to do better be better and that is never good enough! I am on the spin cycle of life it seems and its all I have ever known...I operate on fear except when I sleep! Fear of everything...But at the same time it motivates me in some way to keep going??? So the THOUGHT that its just a thought and nothing more leaves "me" feeling stripped of how I have lived out my life? Fear of the unknown seems to set in... Also the fear if I really keep pushing at this the thought "this won't either Bob" it's just another crazy pursuit of my forever seeking...

You ask if there is no one there, what is it that doesn't want to go back to the unfocused crazy unaware life? The thought that there is me? I get so hooked by the story and the thoughts that surface around a me and I drift right back into the whole crazy mess believing there is a me and I need to act on what I see now are the thoughts that come up? I DON"T KNOW!!! I seem unable to put this into words to explain this clearly:( WHY is that?
As I continue to read your comments you said if it truly was unaware I wouldn't be able too report on it struck me! Wow it was again one of those moments where the light bulb goes off!!! Yes thats so true:)

Lastly you ask me in my frustration when I said I don't know what to do with myself? You asked is there anyone there to do anything with himself? Thats a hard one for me because if I sit and look I see somewhat clearly that there is no one here... Yet today as an example I feel really tired, anger seems to pop up and just a general feeling of frustration is present... So I ask on one hand as I sit with this I see all is thoughts and beliefs...and on the other hand those tapes keep on rolling saying don't go there get back on board....Uhgggggggg! Wheels are spinning please keep me going Nenad:)

Love!

Hi Bob!

You asked me to look at the fear and asked "what is it"? And" whats behind it'? I see that the fear is a thought and just a thought that comes up

Yes! Exactly!

Fear of everything...

Good. Look at this fear.
Acknowledge it. Let it tell whatever it tells.
Let it be.
See what happens.

But at the same time it motivates me in some way to keep going???

It motivates what to keep going?

So the THOUGHT that its just a thought and nothing more leaves "me" feeling stripped of how I have lived out my life?

Is there someone living its life? If so, what does he look like? Does it have a size, shape or form?
Close eyes. Point with the finger to this someone.
Open eyes. What is the finger pointing to?

Fear of the unknown seems to set in...

Good. Look at it.
Acknowledge it.
Let it tell whatever it tells.
Let it be.

Also the fear if I really keep pushing at this the thought "this won't either Bob" it's just another crazy pursuit of my forever seeking...

Again, look at fear, acknowledge it, let it be.
Is there anyone seeking? Was there ever?

You ask if there is no one there, what is it that doesn't want to go back to the unfocused crazy unaware life? The thought that there is me?

Can a thought want or not want anything?
What is thought?
Can it think?
Can it want?

I need to act on what I see now are the thoughts that come up?

Are you controller in control?
Read this link about doership/control, do the exercises and answer the questions here: http://this-is-cosmik.blogspot.ca/2012_ ... chive.html

I DON"T KNOW!!!

Good! Let's find out: Look during the day, you don't need any silence nor quiet time for this: Can you at any time choose and deliberately think a thought?

I seem unable to put this into words to explain this clearly:( WHY is that?

Maybe because you are trying to explain something that doesn't make any sense - idea that there is someone there:)

As I continue to read your comments you said if it truly was unaware I wouldn't be able too report on it struck me!

Good!

Wow it was again one of those moments where the light bulb goes off!!!

:)

Yes thats so true:)

Yes! :)

Thats a hard one for me because if I sit and look I see somewhat clearly that there is no one here...

What do you mean by 'somewhat clearly'? Where is the doubt coming from?

Yet today as an example I feel really tired,

That is completely OK, let the tierdness be there.

anger seems to pop up

Again, perfectly fine, acknowledge it, let it be there.

and just a general feeling of frustration is present...

Acknowledge the frustration, let it be there...

So I ask on one hand as I sit with this I see all is thoughts and beliefs...

Yes! Exactly!

and on the other hand those tapes keep on rolling saying don't go there get back on board....Uhgggggggg!

And that is perfectly OK too. Acknowledge those tapes. Let them be, let them roll on...Can they do anything?

Wheels are spinning please keep me going Nenad:)

Wheels are spinning indeed, this is going great! :)

Love!