The Gate

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
From my investigation into the self it seems that the the inherent self may be an illusion however it appears to be quite real. It seems a to be possible to see through this veil, this filter. True nature of reality is very ordinary. It’s always been here before any experience.

What are you looking for at LU?
Looking forward to engage with like minded folks to further my investigation into the true nature of non-dual reality and also contribute to this cause. I am an open-minded person and I understand the pitfalls of getting tricked by the mind and I need help in checking my blind spots there.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
To gain more clarity into my investigation of true self and awareness. I would like to figure out whether my investigation process needs course correction. And I want to know that which knows everything there is to know. And what would be better than connecting with other like minded folks from whom I can learn.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I started Art of Living spiritual practices like Sudarshan Kriya in 2003, TM practice in 2017. I meditate frequently. I have been learning the Advaita Vedanta scriptures, pathless path to Direct Experience. Recently came across daily non duality by Kat on substack, started reading her book seeing no self and now I am here.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed.
My name is Rowena and I am happy to be your guide. Please let me know what you would like me to call you.

1. Here at LU we assist in the exploration of the idea of the separate self. This is a guiding based on experience that brings a shift in perception and is not a debate. It directly points to what IS through the use of exercises, questions and dialogue. What is expected from you is to LOOK carefully to what is being pointed at. It is this simple LOOKING (not thinking) that brings a shift in perception.

2. Here, we are LOOKING directly into the experience of the senses, which is actually here and now, with the thinking stripped away. It is also known as Direct Experience (DE) or Actual Experience (AE). In this way, we are aiming to discover what is truly happening without the story we tell ourselves. For this process to work you have to answer with 100% honesty, and not relying on thought, imagination or memory - just reporting your direct experience. That would also mean leaving spiritual teachings, philosophies and science away during the inquiry. If you have a meditation practice, please feel free to continue with it as usual – it might come helpful.

3. Please read the following documents from LU *carefully* and let me know if you have any reservations or doubts regarding them:

http://www.liberationunleashed.com/register/disclaimer/

and "Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU.
http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041


4. Please make sure that you are subscribed to your thread. In the top left corner, next to "Post Reply" there is an icon that looks like a spanner. When you click on it there is a menu where you can select “Subscribe topic’. Click on it once. (To be sure that you are subscribed just refresh the page and if you click again should show “Unsubscribe topic”.)

6. Please answer all questions individually, not in a bundle, as this will assist us both in having a clear dialogue. Also it is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. It will save you time in the long run, if a glitch in the system wipes out your answer.

7. When replying to a question it makes it a lot easier to follow the enquiry using the 'Quote Function' to highlight the questions and answers. Here's a video link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fAToDNh9hQ

Throughout this exploration the questions that I would like you to answer are written in blue text. But please check and answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text!!

For the sake of the intensity of the inquiry let’s try to stick to a daily conversation. Of course, life happens, so if you need more time, please let me know. And I will do so as well. This daily conversation will help to slowly unravel the conditioned, conceptual way of looking at our experience and see through the illusion. I cannot stress the value of this more.

What time zone are in? I am in Belgium which is CET
If you're okay with everything so far, we can start.




STARTING THE ENQUIRY: EXPECTATIONS

I know that you've already answered some basic questions when you started this thread, but here are a few more to get your expectations out in the open. Only fear and expectations can prevent clear seeing of no self.

1. What do you think will be different when you realize there’s no separate self?

2. What do you expect to happen as a result of this?

3. What do you want not to happen?

4. What are you hoping for?

5. What seems to be missing in your life right now?


Warm regards,
Rowena

1. What do you think will be different when you realize there’s no separate self?

There may be more peace, calm, contentment, fulfillment. Negative life experiences, charged thoughts, stressful situations, disappointments due to unfulfilled goals may not rattle me or rock my boat so easily. Tendency of thinking either about the past or planning about the future or worrying about things, overthinking may gradually reduce. There may be ability to stay in the present moment. Mindfulness may increase. Emotional highs and lows, ups and downs may slowly be replaced by a sense of steadiness.

2. What do you expect to happen as a result of this?

There may be more stability in my sense of being. Things may still continue to happen around me. Life with all its drama may continue. There may be better understanding of the true nature of reality. Instead of trying to exercise power and control to influence outcomes as per my liking, I may be able to go with the flow. I may be able to accept myself, people around me, events, experiences, everything as it is. I may be able to understand better that everything is perfect the way it is. I do not need to change anything. I may feel free. There may be freedom from thoughts, perceptions, painful memories.

3. What do you want not to happen?

I do not want to suddenly give up everything. I do not want to become unstable.

4. What are you hoping for?

I am hoping to be able to see and understand the true nature of reality very clearly and learn to adjust my perspective as per this. I am hoping to be content, have sense of fulfillment, everything is perfect as it is. I am hoping to end the seeking.

5. What seems to be missing in your life right now?

There is a sense of lack. That I need to get something, I need to gain something to make me complete. There is a tendency to compare what I have, who I am with what others have, who others are if they are better off than me in various aspects of life. There is an underlying theme of disappointment due to unmet needs, not able to meet my own expectations or measure upto someone else’s expectations causing sadness, melancholy at times even though I have come far in life but there is always more to be had, more to do, it is never enough.

Hi Rowena,

I am in US Pacific time zone (US West Coast).

With Warm Regards,
Manish

Hi Manish,

Great to hear from you.

From the answers to the five questions, your answers are very reasonable and without great expectations. So let's dive in!

COLORED SOCKS - HOW TO LOOK AND SEE CLEARLY
I will probably be referring to this example throughout our inquiry as a reminder to always return to your direct experience.

There is a BIG difference between believing that there is no independent separate self, and seeing that there is no separate self .

If you can’t look and see for yourself directly, you cannot describe what you see in your own words.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks (or underwear) you are wearing right now you have two ways to answer:
1. You can think about it, trying to remember, or guessing what color they are. Or,
2. You can have a look at your socks and see what color they ACTUALLY are!

You will agree that only by looking and verifying for yourself, you could be 100% certain, right? Yes/No

For the purpose of this inquiry, it is crucial that there is clarity about the difference in the two ways of answering and stick only to the second way. Attention is focusing on looking and seeing what is actually happening right here and right now, which is known as Direct Experience.


DIRECT OR ACTUAL EXPERIENCE BRINGS IN THE FIVE SENSES AND THE ACTIVITY OF THINKING/PERCEIVING
Seeing (colors/shapes)
Hearing (sounds)
Feeling or Sensing (body sensations, both internal and external)
Tasting
Smelling
and
Thinking/Perceiving (but without paying attention to the content of thinking i.e. the thoughts)

Direct experiencing is the immediacy that happens before thought arrives to describe, interpret, explain it or give it meaning. The moment experience is talked about concepts are introduced, then responding or identifying with those concepts occurs, which leads to a narrative of memories, associations, and interpretations, conclusions (all thoughts) and so on…

DIRECT EXPERIENCE OF DAILY ACTIVITIES

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities as simply colors, sounds, smells, tastes, sensations, thoughts.

So for example, when having breakfast, becoming aware of the experiencing of a cup of coffee would unfold like this:

Sitting on a chair; simply: sensation
Feeling feet on the ground; simply: sensation
Seeing a cup on the table; simply= colors and shapes
Smelling coffee; simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup; simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee; simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee; simply = sound
Thinking about drinking the coffee; simply = thought

Please explore any simple daily activities that can be broken down into these categories of Direct Experience and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

The point here is to understand the difference between what is actually being experienced (Direct Experience or DE) and not what is interpretation (Conventional experiencing or CE). If you are not 100% clear on this don't worry, you will become clear as we continue.

Please post several of your own simple daily observations in lists exactly like the one above.

Finally, the website is playing up a bit at the moment, so sometimes when "preview" or "submit" is clicked on it doesn't go through, normally if you go back and try again it should work on the third try!

Warm regards,
Rowena

Washing face with cold water; simply = sensation
taking one step after next (Walking), feeling feet on the ground while walking; simply = sensation
seeing socks and indoor slippers; simply = colors and shapes
Seeing cats play; simply = shapes(forms) and colors
Thinking about work; simply = thought
Hearing typing on the keyboard; simply = sound
Fingers and hands on keyboard; simply = touch
looking at computer monitor; simply = form/shape and color
Thinking about dinner = thought
eating ice cream; simply = taste
looking at the wall; simply = shape and color

Hi Manish,

EXPERIENCE THOUGHTS WITH AND WITHOUT "I AM" LABEL
Here is an exercise which examines the way in which thoughts add labels to experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper. As with all the exercises going forward make sure you are comfortable and take a few deep breathes in order to be relaxed. This is not an intellectual exercise, but a kind of whole-body intuitive exercise attentive to the difference in the two perspectives. And you can't get it wrong!

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots.
For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry
I am thinking
I am writing.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time drop the “I am” label. Here you can see that experience, in simple language, does not require an experiencer. It can be just as it is without the addition of presumption of a self, of an "I".

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
hearing clock ticking
looking at computer screen
feeling hungry
thinking
writing

Finally, try the two together, first say with the "I am" label and next without: I am walking / walking

Pay attention to body sensations, watch what is happening in the body. Really take time to sense the difference. It may be subtle.
What is the body sensation when you say "I am ….."
What is the body sensation without the add-on of "I am…."?

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Does one feel intuitively 'truer', more spacious, than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without the labels, including the label "I am", in your direct experience?

3. Do labels affect or alter the direct experience, including the label "I am" or just describe it?

4. Did you feel any differences in the body between the two ways?


Warm regards,
Rowena

Hi Rowena,

I truly appreciate you as my guide and I am very thankful to you for helping me.

For some reason, in past few days, as I was about to do something for example went to bathroom and noticed thoughts arriving bit later, observing the bright light, where I am, I find myself in the bathroom and then I began brushing my teeth. Similarly, I went to the kitchen, and there seemed to be a subtle waiting period to realize I am in kitchen and then thoughts arrived. There were at least few other instances where this seemed to happen. I did wonder whether brushing of teeth, making of coffee happened by muscle memory without much thought being put into it since I do these things every day. But I was bit surprised to find subtle waiting period before thoughts arrived to describe the experience.

Experience with I:
I am typing on computer keyboard
I am looking at computer screen
I see light emitted by table lamps
I see walls
I don't smell anything
I am thinking whether I am hungry
I am sitting on chair with feet on floor
I feel tips of my fingers touching the computer keyboard
I hear sound of kids playing in neighborhood
I hear distant traffic noise
I feel taste of tea I am having
I feel comfortable, neither warm nor cold
I am thinking about my cats
I am thinking about my daughter


Experience without the I label:
Typing on computer keyboard
Looking at computer screen
seeing light emitted by table lamps
Seeing walls
Not smelling anything
Thinking about being hungry
Sitting on chair with feet on floor
Tips of fingers touching computer keyboard
Hearing sound of kids playing in neighborhood
Hearing distant traffic noise
Tasting tea
Feeling comfortable, neither warm nor cold
Thinking about Cats
Thinking about daughter

1. Does one feel intuitively 'truer', more spacious, than the other, and If so, which one?

The second one without the 'I am' feels more spacious. When I remove the 'I am' it also seemed more observational. Just reporting from direct observation or direct or first hand experience. There seemed to be objectivity to it. Subjectivity was removed. It seemed neutral. It seemed quite natural. The element of decision making was removed. There was no thinking or thought involved. All of this just happened without any rhyme or reason. There was a sense of subtle freedom experienced when dropping the 'I am'.

2. What is here without the labels, including the label "I am", in your direct experience?

It seems that things are just happening without any thought to it. Also with dropping the 'I am' brought a subtle relief. Body was less tensed. There was a subtle sense of relief and freedom. The best way to describe this seems to be a question that arises - If "I am" not doing any of these things describe with the "I am",

then what is:
" Typing on computer keyboard
Looking at computer screen
seeing light emitted by table lamps
Seeing walls
Not smelling anything
Thinking about being hungry
Sitting on chair with feet on floor
Tips of fingers touching computer keyboard
Hearing sound of kids playing in neighborhood
Hearing distant traffic noise
Tasting tea
Feeling comfortable, neither warm nor cold
Thinking about Cats
Thinking about daughter"

I am not able to find the answer regarding what is here without the labels. In return the question is arising - what is here if the 'I am' label(s) are dropped?

3. Do labels affect or alter the direct experience, including the label "I am" or just describe it?

Labels seems to alter the direct experience. One is forced to bring the perspective of 'I am'. The individuality of 'I am' seems to color the experience. The subjectivity 'I am' seems to be hovering over this experience when said with 'I am' label

4. Did you feel any differences in the body between the two ways?

Experience described with 'I am' label seems to be a bit tensed whereas experience described without 'I am' seems relaxing, provides subtle relief.

With Warm Regards,
Manish

Hello Manish,

Thanks for your kind words, and it really is my pleasure to be your guide.

For some reason, in past few days, as I was about to do something for example went to bathroom and noticed thoughts arriving bit later, observing the bright light, where I am, I find myself in the bathroom and then I began brushing my teeth. Similarly, I went to the kitchen, and there seemed to be a subtle waiting period to realize I am in kitchen and then thoughts arrived. There were at least few other instances where this seemed to happen. I did wonder whether brushing of teeth, making of coffee happened by muscle memory without much thought being put into it since I do these things every day. But I was bit surprised to find subtle waiting period before thoughts arrived to describe the experience.

What a great observation! I think your observation ties in nicely with the exercise that you just did below!

2. What is here without the labels, including the label "I am", in your direct experience?
It seems that things are just happening without any thought to it. Also with dropping the 'I am' brought a subtle relief. Body was less tensed. There was a subtle sense of relief and freedom. The best way to describe this seems to be a question that arises - If "I am" not doing any of these things describe with the "I am", then what is:............

I am not able to find the answer regarding what is here without the labels. In return the question is arising - what is here if the 'I am' label(s) are dropped?

Exactly! This is the perfect question!

What is here if the "I am" label(s) are dropped?

Please be relaxed as you look, and pay attention to any sensations that are arising. Allow them to be as they are.

Does it matter if you are unable to find anything?

4. Did you feel any differences in the body between the two ways?

Experience described with 'I am' label seems to be a bit tensed whereas experience described without 'I am' seems relaxing, provides subtle relief.

Lovely!


Here is an exercise that follows on from the last one:

HOW TO DISTINGUISH WHAT FEELS NATURAL, FREE AND ALIVE FROM WHAT FEELS CONTRACTED (FALSE/UNTRUE/A LIE)

We often 'lie' every day & don't realize it.

For example, the grocery clerk asks, "How are you?" You reply, "I'm fine." While, yes, there is a sense in which we are always fine, even in the middle of suffering, at that moment, you might have been grieving the death of your dog, you had a slight sore throat & you had a headache, but you didn't feel like sharing all of that with the grocery clerk, so you 'lied', "I'm fine."

In conventional or consensus reality we are not going to be airing everything that is going on in our lives, but it is important that we become aware of our inner state of body sensations. While the body sensations are true, meaning that our direct experience of them is real, the way we interpret them can be misleading.

The story of a separate "self" is a lie. This is the lie you came here to see through. Therefore, it is important to notice the body sensation of lying as one of the tools for finding the truth of no self.

You want to be in touch with body sensations & able to clearly describe them in words. This will help.
Lies can be felt in the upper body, often in the heart, solar plexus or arms, as a contraction that we may label as tight, heavy or tense.

In contrast, truth is usually expansive. We may call it loose, light or relaxed. It feels like relief, like some heavy load has dropped away. You felt that when you did the exercise dropping the words "I am", do you remember?


First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

Here we count anything, lies we think of as "big" or "small" that "matter" or don't "matter."

How are you? I'm fine. No, your knee hurts, but you don't feel like discussing it with the grocery clerk.

It's a lie. A seemingly "bigger" one will work better for this exercise.

Find the lie. You don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

What is found?

If you think the memory you used wasn't clear enough, find another one or lie to yourself right now, make something up.

1 + 1 = 14 is a lie.

I love eating worms is (probably) a lie.

Or call up a video of a lying politician & notice what body sensations arise as you listen.

Or, even looking at what happens in your body when you have a thought "I should have done ..............." or, "This should / should not have happened................."

Please report back with what body sensations (not interpretations) you felt. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc.

Let me know how you get on with this.


Warm regards,
Rowena